I've been reading through Judges, and I just found that in 6:14 the Angel of the LORD says to Gideon, "Go in this might of yours and save Israel from the hand of Midian; do not I sent you?"

Do not I send you? If this is supposed to be a translation in modern English, why the bizarre and obsolete word ordering? It's like a handful of King James-isms sprinkled randomly throughout the translation where they really don't fit.

I can find others, I just haven't really recorded them. For some reason this one just particularly irked me

Does anyone know why there are odd word orderings like this? Was Yoda on the translation committee? Is there actually something in the original languages that necessitates this ordering, and that is "more literal" for being retained in English?

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Bill in Dayton, OH
Member of Redeemer OPC

"Show me Your ways, O LORD;
Teach me Your paths.
Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
For You are the God of my salvation;
On You I wait all the day." (Psalm 25:4-5)

Ain't I sending you I guess is more akin to modern english. It's still better than fetching compasses...

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Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

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JC - PCA - PA...homesick for SC
A we n' de Ya, ho; I mak sikker; Deus juvat

Indicabo tibi o homo quid sit bonum, et quid Dominus requirat a te: Utique facere iudicium, et diligere, misericordiam, et sollicitum ambulare cum Deo tuo. Michaeas 6:8

"Who says you can't go back, been all around the world and as a matter of fact. There's only one place left I want to go, who says you can't go home" Bon Jovi

The Authorized Version also has that ordering, as do other more literal translations. My guess is that in making this translation choice they are taking the interpretation that what the LORD is saying there is have not *I* sent you? with the emphasis on who is doing the sending.

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Todd K. Pedlar
member, First Congregational Church, (CCCC) Cresco, IA
http://inprincipiodeus.solideogloria.com
http://puritanwisdom.blogspot.com

"As God did not at first choose you because you were high, He will not now forsake you because you are low."
John Flavel in Keeping the Heart



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The verb is a qal perfect and wouldn't the NASB translation be better: "Have I not sent you?"

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Lance G. Marshall
Pastor
Georgetown, Indiana

The only thing I find strange is the typo. Is it 'sent' or 'send'? The word order looks fine.

I don't share much of the reformed world's infatuation with the ESV, but I don't see a problem with this.

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Edward
Deacon
PCA
Texas

Whoops! They both should be "send."

It's probably a stylistic preference, but "do not I send you" just sounds...stodgy and archaic?...vs "do I not send you." Maybe they both sound archaic, I don't know. Modern English would read "Don't I send you?" where the contraction would probably stand in for "Do not I send you." So maybe I just shot my own argument in the foot.

But it still sounds weird to me! Maybe it sounds forced. Almost like somebody was trying to make the translation sound older, or more authoritative, or something.

Still, I find some of these oddities (to me anyway) sprinkled throughout. Like in 1 Samuel, God calls to Samuel in the night and he replies "Here am I." Sure, grammatically maybe it's fine, but nobody actually talks like that nor have they for many years. I'm not advocating translating it as "Wazzup?" but "Here I am" seems more natural.

Agreed. And they call the NASB "wooden".

14 The LORD looked at him and said, "Go in this your strength and deliver Israel from the hand of Midian. Have I not sent you?"

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Norm
IA PCA

In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will. Ephesians 1:4-5

That would interesting to read, I bet somebody did it already. Wazzup!

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Doug
Baptist
Hemet, Ca
Old Time Radio Podcast

I was always told that "Here am I" conveys a very different meaning than "Here I am". I believe Isaiah also says the same thing in Isaiah 6 after he sees a vision of our Lord.

The emphasis with "Here I am" is the location of the person (here), whereas the emphasis with "Here am I" is the person himself (I).

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Joel Lee
Redeemer Hoboken Church (attending)
Hoboken, NJ

Yea, it sounds nice. But there's no difference in the Hebrew. I tried that on my Hebrew prof once... no go.

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For the Glory of our King,
Joe Johnson
Slave of Christ, husband, father, Preacherboy at Cornerstone Community Church, Escanaba, MI. and TMS graduate. Personal website - SoundLife.org

I do not know, and I do not say, that a person cannot believe in Revelation and in evolution, too, for a man may believe that which is infinitely wise and also that which is only asinine. ~ CHS

Just wondering if the construction of this sentence would Grammatically place the emphasis on a more imperative statement instead of a more interrogative statement and that's why it's set up in this fashion?

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sarah
WI
OPC
My Pastor's Sermons: Mark Jenkins...he's awesome!!!

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Rev. Andy Eppard
Associate Minister
First Cumberland Presbyterian Church
Springfield, MO

the verb's tense is qal perfect = completed action

grammatically the phase looks like this

[interrogative particle] + [negative particle] + [qal perfect 1st person with 2nd person suffix]

[interrogative particle] = question follows
[negative particle] = "not"
[qal perfect 1 person with 2nd person suffix] = "I have sent you"

thus "Have I not sent you?"

That's exactly what I was going to say!

I'm getting dizzy.

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Ivan R. Schoen, B.A., M.A., M.L.I.S.
Pastor of Maranatha Baptist Church (SBC)
Poplar Grove, IL, USA
http://maranatha-sbc.org

Take two Gesenius's and call me in the morning.

Are you should that's not Gesenius'?

or Geseniuses? Now I'm feeling dizzy, too.

Sorry...see what happens when I have five days off! My bad!

The problem is that my go-to guy for introduction to all things Reformed, R.C. Sproul, mispeaks himself in his famous sermon on Isaiah 6.

The meaning he adduces (to whit: availability, not location) is certainly biblical and arguably Isaiah's point. Implying that it is rooted in differences in the Hebrew syntax, however, is "preacher talk." When Isaiah says "Here I am" he is clearly NOT giving the Lord a tip since the divine GPS is on the fritz. It is a statement of availability for service. There just isn't any underlying differentiation (that I know of in my limited Hebrew) between "Here am I" and "Here I am."

In Isaiah 6: he sees the Lord (Holy, Holy, Holy), he therefore sees himself in relation to the Holy One ("woe is me"), and he sees the service God has for him ("Here am I. Send me").

See how simple that was? And you don't even have to speak in tongues (like Lance!) to say it.

Lance, if you keep saying "qal, qal, qal," I'm gonna think that you are practicing your bird imitations.

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Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

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But you have to admit it was a perfect qal!

Great. Now I have to explain to the folks in the office, including the ADEM inspectors, why I just busted out laughing. I'm pretty sure that I will have to go home and get my Gesenius. I'm also pretty sure they will need some Guinnesses as well.

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We shall not adjust our Bible to the age; but before we have done with it, by God's grace, we shall adjust the age to the Bible. - Charles Haddon Spurgeon

Lawrence Underwood, Jr.
Pastor - Providence Family Fellowship / Mobile, Alabama
1644/46 LBC
My Blog - Imprimis

I'm happy to be the genesis of Gesenius and Guinness.

It's time for a new translation already. This one is SO obsolete. How about the 'today's english standard new american revised version in modern english' version.

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Psa 55:16 As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me.
Psa 55:17 Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice.
James Farley
Husband of Melissa and father of Ann.
Members of Redeemer Church ARP, Blacksburg Va.
http://www.redeemerblacksburg.org/

No way!!! I've been listening to the PC crowd and have come to the settled conviction that "English" in any statement is a racist attack upon marginalized persons of an international persuasion.

I'm holding out for a Pig-latin or Esperanto translation.

So, is that what I said only said differently or are you saying something different from what I said? What are you saying exactly?

It is not an imperative, it is more like saying "why are you still standing here?"

Wouldn't an imperative statement lead them to ask the person who wasn't moving "why are you still standing here?" If I give an order to someone to do something and they are not moving to do it, then I'm going to ask them why they are still standing in front of me.

It isn't in the imperative in Hebrew. I take it more to mean ... "what are you worried about, haven't I, the LORD, sent you?" Asking why someone is still there, or why they are fearful, isn't an imperative.

Ah yes, Esperanto. The once thought future Lingua Franca of the Coming Utopia!! Here you go, Dennis:

Sorry you and Grymir have turned me into a Bible snob. If it isn't real leather, high end goatskin, or done by Cambridge or Allans it isn't a real "Bible."

I'm glad that I have been used to deliver you from the lowly masses It really is nicer up here, isn't it? I wonder if Allan will be binding the Esperanto version anytime soon?

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Toni Cunningham, Wife of Bill (Theognome)
Parkwoods OPC, Overland Park KS

"Vice is a monster of so frightful mien, As, to be hated, needs but to be seen; Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face, We first endure, then pity, then embrace." ~ Alexander Pope