OK, as most of you know I am a King Jimmy Dude, BUT, yes I do use and read other Bibles. Now is it it just me here, but when I want a CT reference in English I am more often returning to the NASB (and yes Fred Greco, I know it has some Yoda English ), BUT overall, between the two, using a Hebrew/Greek reference, I find most of the time, the NASB is more accurate. Any thoughts?

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~etexas~

language of Yoda it has?

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Richard H. King
Providence PCA
Lubbock, Texas
"No matter how far a man goes, he eventually finds out God's already there." John Wayne - the last line in "Chisum"

Hmmmmmm.......see let us.

I like the NASB for accuracy - the ESV for language.

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-JD
[URL="http://www.greeknewtestament.com/B52C005.htm#V21"]1Thess5:21[/URL]
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Serving on Ministry Staff, SBC
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I agree, the ESV has pleasing English, but, let us be honest, few read the NASB as a quick devotional, it is good for word studies, esp. as I noted if one is using Greek/Hebrew reference works along with it.

I agree, NASB for accuracy . . . given the critical text.

In spite of what others say, I have never found the NASB unduly awkward, cumbersome, or been bothered by any particular Yoda language. If some wording or syntax is forced a bit to better reflect the Greek, I'm all for it.

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Jim
1689 LBCF
Independent Bible Church
North Texas, USA

I agree with this as well, I have never really found the NASB that difficult to read. Most critics of it feel readability and accuracy are one and the same (see Better Bibles Blog , they feel the NLT is "accurate" because it is an easy read).

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Benjamin P. Glaser
Pittsburgh, PA
Fairmount ARP Church

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Pittsburgh Theological Seminary
Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary
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To take it a step more, I think the Lockman folk did a nice job with the 95 update, there were some errors in the old footnotes which are corrected, and it reads more smoothly ( in my humble opinion), another plus is with the NASB Update it is available in paragraph form.

[quote=Backwoods Presbyterian;381247]
I have, but I think it's because I grew up with the KJV. I was so happy when the ESV came along, because the language flows better. Having said that I have a small NASB with my ESV so I can make a quick comparison.

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J Baldwin
Keowee Presbyterian Church, PCA
Pickens, SC
“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” Luke 10:27

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[quote=JBaldwin;381260]Agreed, most of us would say the ESV has nice English, and it is an accurate CT based translation, the question is more about how "faithful" the respective translations are to the Hebrew and Greek texts, in this regard I would still say the NASB is "better" in this sense.

The problem relates to what makes a "good" translation. If the goal is to mimic the underlying grammatical structures of the source, then the NASB is the best Bible. When you read the Greek, you can catch the preference for participles and identify (more often than in other translations) what exegetical decisions the translators are making. In the OT, you can feel the parataxis of the vaw stringing together sentence with sentence. I have always found the NASB to be the BEST snapshot of the underlying text.

If, however, the purpose of a translation is to communicate accurately and idiomatically into the receptor language, then other translations are "better." Translation is as much art as science. If you hear the word "Watergate" in English, it would make no sense to translate it into Spanish, German, or whatever as "water" + "gate." In fact, the wooden attempt at exactitude would mislead rather than illuminate. That is why the ESV, HCSB, etc. are counted as "good" translations. They strive to be as formally equivalent as possible without sacrificing meaning.

Dynamic equivalent translations, in my opinion, err on the side of paraphrasis to convey what the translators believe to be important. But, for those of us in the conservative wing of the church, we believe that this is God's holy book and that "getting the general sense of it" is not enough. We want to capture the literary allusions, references to the OT, and take with greatest seriousness and care with what the divine author intends for us to receive.

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Dennis E. McFadden
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

I use the NASB for devotional and studying, and the ESV for preaching. But I wish the ESV versese were laid out like my NASB. The ESV verses run in the same paragraph, whereas the NASB verses are separate lines, making it easier to pickup where individual verses are at.

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Will Shin
Pastor/Church Planter
Grace Reformed Church
Rockville, MD

There are a few things that i don't like in the NASB as far as accuracy goes that i think the ESV does better at...

Translating the OT "ach" (brother) as countryman - Lev 25:35 and others.

Translating the NT "porneia" (sexual immorality) as "immorality" without any reference to it being sexual in nature - 1 Cor 5:1 and others.

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Larry Bray
Training for Elder - Reformed Presbyterian Church of Boothwyn, PCA
Boothwyn, PA
http://www.rpcb.org/

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Good points Brother, so by your definition I will clarify: I am referring to "good" in terms of fidelity to the underlying Hebrew and Greek. I was not that clear, thank you.

I too have gotten used to the verse by verse layout of the old NASB. I prefer it now over the paragraph format.

I do not yet have an ESV to read. But I'm not really tempted to get one yet. I have the NKJV and the NASB as my primary english texts. I am a student of NT Greek but never made it very far with biblical Hebrew.

It's OK! Your Greek is better than mine! I audited at a local seminary and was allowed to use parsing codes!

etexas,

I doubt anyone will argue with you with the NASB's accuracy, unless it's that occasionally it's so accurate that it's not readily understandable. Other times I've noticed that they will render a word into idiomatic English when the literal translation is probably just about as understandable. But you can probably find similar examples in every translation. For a CT translation the NASB is the one I generally turn to as well.

I think that the NASB and NKJV are the two best modern translations for study purposes. Since I am using the KJV more now, I don't refer to the ESV that often. I don't even have a copy of it anymore since I got rid of mine during my recent move. But the Crossway does seem to keep coming out with interesting editions of the ESV.

If you like the NASB, don't worry about it even though the ESV is the hot new translation right now.

Nice to see you posting here again.

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C.P. --Attending Grace Community Baptist Church, Mandeville, LA

"Where is the young man who fears the judgment to come? What is the breath of an enemy of God to the blast of the soul by the breath of the Almighty? If you fear the frowns of a fellow worm, how will you stand in judgment with an angry God?" --Asahel Nettleton

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Thank you Brother. As a King James man I would not say I am worried about the issue, as you noted, the ESV is the "hot" translation now, I was simply curious about how my PB Brethren felt about the what seems to be a marketplace struggle between these two literal CT based translations.

I can tell you this when it comes to marketplace, from what I've seen. Other than Lifeway (Southern Baptist Bookstore) you will be hard pressed to find a good selection of NASB's in retail stores today. Lifeway probably continues to carry a variety of NASB's because a lot of preachers shop there. Of course, unlike many other stores, Lifeway also does not sell the TNIV, which leaves more shelf space for the NASB and other versions. The NASB continues to hang around the bottom half of the CBA's top 10 bestselling translations and its primary constituency is probably pastors, seminary students and those who have used it in the past who are replacing their copy. Of course you also have those who will collect every version possible. At one time, when people who used CT translations were becoming serious about studying the Bible would put their NIV aside and get an NASB, but today it seems that the choice for many is the ESV instead. This is due to the ESV's marketing campaign (including online) and the fact that many do find it easier to read than the NASB and more literal than the NIV.

When it comes to marketplace, if a new translation has a good marketing push behind it, it will sell. When the full NASB came out in the 1970's I think it overtook the AV for a time, but was itself overtaken by the NIV. The Living Bible sold a lot of copies in the 1970's as well, as have the NLT and the Message more recently. The AV of course continues to sell in large numbers, even though it typically isn't consistently #1 anymore. The NKJV has always sold well too although I don't think it's ever consistently been #1 in sales.

Here are the most recent rankings by the Christian Bookseller's Association.

Top 10 in dollar sales:

1 New International Version various publishers
2 King James Version various publishers
3 New King James Version various publishers
4 New Living Translation Tyndale
5 Holman Christian Standard Bible B&H Publishing Group
6 Today’s New International Version Zondervan
7 New American Standard Bible update various publishers
8 English Standard Version Crossway
9 The Message Eugene Peterson, NavPress
10 Reina Valera 1960 (Spanish) various publishers

Top 10 in Unit Sales:

1 New International Version various publishers
2 King James Version various publishers
3 New King James Version various publishers
4 English Standard Version Crossway
5 New Living Translation Tyndale
6 Reina Valera 1960 (Spanish) various publishers
7 Holman Christian Standard Bible B&H Publishing Group
8 The Message Eugene Peterson, NavPress
9 New American Standard Bible update various publishers
10 International Children’s Bible Thomas Nelson