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Pneumatology discuss tongues speaking during a worship service in the Theological Forum forums; what would you do if a member in your congregation began speaking in tongues or started giving a prophesy (out loud- to the congregation)? Say ...

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    rembrandt is offline. Inactive User
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    tongues speaking during a worship service

    what would you do if a member in your congregation began speaking in tongues or started giving a prophesy (out loud- to the congregation)? Say you were standing right beside him/her during the worship service. I would probably give him a nudge while he was speaking and try to figure out a nice way to tell him to stop.

    the above question is mainly for members of the congregation and not specifically for pastors. But, pastors, what would you do? And after the situation gets handled would you say anything to the congregation about it?

    I come from a church were tongues speaking and prophesy is regular during a worship service, but I havn't seen anybody attempt since I left Pentecostalism.

    Rembrandt

    [Edited on 3-31-2004 by rembrandt]

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    SolaScriptura's Avatar
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    I'd get on all fours and start barking like a dog.
    :dunce:

    Just kidding.

    In all honesty, I don't think that there would be a huge likelihood of that happening in a non-charismatic church. The reason is that the prerequisite "cultural acceptance" wouldn't be there...
    But if he did start up I think that it would be the responsiblity of the pastor/elders to restrain him... but if they didn't then I would advise him that he is deceived.
    Ben
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    "Whenever I'm about to do something, I think, 'would an idiot do that?' And if they would, I do not do that thing." -- Dwight Schrute

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    If I were a pastor or elder of the Church I would stop the service and rebuke him.

    If I were not, I would contact the elders as soon as practicable. If they were unwilling to do anything, I would begin the process of leaving the church.
    Fred Greco
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    rembrandt is offline. Inactive User
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    how about if he/she was doing this for the whole congregation to hear, talking as loud as possible, almost yelling (that is the usual way I have seen it done). Sometimes the ecstatic revelations (from the devil of course) last for 5 minutes. What if he was talking in the name of God for say 10 seconds (before the pastor/elders could get to him). Would you perform a citizen's arrest? Or atleast shake him violently until he shuts up?

    [quote:6159263398]In all honesty, I don't think that there would be a huge likelihood of that happening in a non-charismatic church. The reason is that the prerequisite "cultural acceptance" wouldn't be there...[/quote:6159263398]

    it still happens though.

    Rembrandt

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    a mere housewife's Avatar
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    I would get out of the way so the elders/deacons could get to him.
    Heidi
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    rembrandt is offline. Inactive User
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    good idea. tap him on the shoulder and then get everybody else to evacuate the aisle.

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    SolaScriptura's Avatar
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    [quote:ce4a34de8a][i:ce4a34de8a]Originally posted by rembrandt[/i:ce4a34de8a]
    how about if he/she was doing this for the whole congregation to hear, talking as loud as possible, almost yelling (that is the usual way I have seen it done). Sometimes the ecstatic revelations (from the devil of course) last for 5 minutes. What if he was talking in the name of God for say 10 seconds (before the pastor/elders could get to him). Would you perform a citizen's arrest? Or atleast shake him violently until he shuts up?

    [quote:ce4a34de8a]In all honesty, I don't think that there would be a huge likelihood of that happening in a non-charismatic church. The reason is that the prerequisite "cultural acceptance" wouldn't be there...[/quote:ce4a34de8a]

    it still happens though.

    Rembrandt [/quote:ce4a34de8a]

    Well.... since we're clearly talking in hypotheticals...
    If it was a quick 10 second blip then he'd probably be done by the time anybody got over their shock. In that case I'd leave the man alone (again, I'd leave it up to the pastor or elders to stand up and say that the man is of satan) until after the service.
    Now, I'll play along with where you're wanting us to go...
    If this was a 10 minute type of thing and the guy just won't shut up and he's yelling and carrying on like a fool... then yes, if no one else has the guts to do what needs to be done, then I would physically remove the man from the room. (I'm a big, tough guy... I can do that type of thing.)
    I'd probably dump him - bouncer style- outside the church and stand guard at the door for the rest of the service. On Monday (because I wouldn't want to work on Sunday...) I would make a sign and post it by the door. It would read "Disrupt our worship service and you will be removed."
    :sumo:
    Ben
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    How I would handle the scenario

    I would go up to the man and say something like, "Brother! Brother! You are disrupting the worship service and distracting everyone from worshiping the Lord. Lets talk after the service is over; I want to tell you how we believe a worship service is conducted."

    Then, after the service, I'd let him know where we stand on this issue (reason with him from the Scriptures), and then invite him to either concede on this issue or find a different church, but we certainly do not want such a "scene" again.

    He was probably either mentally ill, or culturally conditioned to behave the way he did. Hopefully, if he is able, he'll change for the better.

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    A_Wild_Boar is offline. Inactive User
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    Honestly I would probably laugh. Actually no. It would freak me out a little.

    [Edited on 4-1-2004 by A_Wild_Boar]

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    CajunBibleBeliever is offline. Inactive User
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    My ushers would tackle them down to the ground, handcuff them and escort them out the building.

    or

    If it is done after the preaching and an interpreter is able to translate what was said, I may not have a problem as long as it is done decently and in order and not cause a disruption and quenching the Holy Spirit. However the person would be dealt with and questioned on their doctrine.

    If it interrupts the sermon, they would be rebuked from the pulpit and called to order.

    Brent

    P.S. I was just kidding in the first paragraph, my ushers aren't allowed to carry handcuffs.

    [Edited on 4-1-2004 by CajunBibleBeliever]
    Brent Hebert
    Member of a Southern Baptist Congregation
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    pastorway is offline. Inactive User
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    Are you guys asking what we would do if someone actually stood up and legitimately was given the Biblical gift of tongues and started speaking what we do? Or are you asking about someone standing up talking charismatic gibberish - which is not the Biblical gift of tongues.

    1 Cor 14 gives us at least 10 things that have to be true for it to be the actual spiritual gift in operation. So I just wanted to be sure that you were all reacting against a false presentation of the gift instead of an actual occurence that matched the requirements of Scripture and was legitimately a gift of the Spirit!

    Phillip

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    Rich Barcellos is offline. Puritanboard Freshman
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    tongues speaking during a worship service

    Phillip said:

    [Are you guys asking what we would do if someone actually stood up and legitimately was given the Biblical gift of tongues and started speaking what we do? Or are you asking about someone standing up talking charismatic gibberish - which is not the Biblical gift of tongues.]

    If the latter, I would stop the service and ask him to be quiet. If he refused, I would rebuke him. If he continued, I'd have our deacons and/or our two LA County armed deputies escort him out. If he was still around after the service, I would talk to him and exhort him not to do that again or find another church.

    The former is impossible.
    Richard C. Barcellos
    Grace Reformed Baptist Church, Palmdale, CA (www.grbcav.org)

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    pastorway is offline. Inactive User
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    Just wanted to be sure we were not categorizing what goes on today with the gift shown in the Scriptures!

    Phillip :naughty:
    Pastor Phillip M. Way
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    When all souls are saved and all mourners comforted we may venture to discuss recondite theories, but not while graveyards are filling with those who know not God. -- CH Spurgeon

    [b]The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
    Luke 18:27[/b]

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    mjbee is offline. Inactive User
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    Aww, c'mon you guys, be charitable. Don't get mad and bounce the person out of the church or handcuff him/her! God brought that person to your service for a reason or two. One would be to see how you would react (in love or anger). The other would be to correct the poor sorry deceived....whatever. Good grief. Do you treat Mormons that way when they knock on your door? Or do you view it as an opportunity to point them to the Christ of the Scriptures?
    Melissa
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    "It is better to be divided by truth than to be united in error. It is better to speak the truth that hurts and heals, than falsehood that comforts and then kills. Let me tell you something, friend, it is not love and it is not friendship if we fail to declare the whole counsel of God. It is better to be hated for telling the truth, than to be loved for telling a lie. It is impossible to find anyone in the Bible who was a power for God who did not have enemies and was not hated. It's better to stand alone with the truth, than to be wrong with a multitude. It is better to ultimately succeed with the truth than to temporarily succeed with a lie. There is only one Gospel and Paul said, 'If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.'"
    Pastor Adrian Rodgers, excerpts from talk, Nat'l Religious Broadcasters Convention, 1996

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    FrozenChosen is offline. Inactive User
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    I do think it's funny that the Spirit only descends in charismatic services. Poor rest of us.
    Daniel Pope
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    rembrandt is offline. Inactive User
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    [quote:5946ab295a]Do you treat Mormons that way when they knock on your door? Or do you view it as an opportunity to point them to the Christ of the Scriptures?[/quote:5946ab295a]

    oh, we are not supposed to ceize the mormons?... still got a few in my basement. j/k :hobbyhorse:

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    mjbee is offline. Inactive User
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    Paul, you are not right! (by the way, it's seize). I will send the Christian liberators to your house to free those poor Elders. :attack:
    Melissa Brown
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    "It is better to be divided by truth than to be united in error. It is better to speak the truth that hurts and heals, than falsehood that comforts and then kills. Let me tell you something, friend, it is not love and it is not friendship if we fail to declare the whole counsel of God. It is better to be hated for telling the truth, than to be loved for telling a lie. It is impossible to find anyone in the Bible who was a power for God who did not have enemies and was not hated. It's better to stand alone with the truth, than to be wrong with a multitude. It is better to ultimately succeed with the truth than to temporarily succeed with a lie. There is only one Gospel and Paul said, 'If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.'"
    Pastor Adrian Rodgers, excerpts from talk, Nat'l Religious Broadcasters Convention, 1996

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    pastorway is offline. Inactive User
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    Thinking of it as Mormons will help us understand the responses we are getting. If a mormon apologist/missionary showed up at my church and stood up and started teaching his heresy and would not stop, I would have him physically removed. I am responsioble to protect the flock! And error in our midst is not to be toloerated. Otherwise we should just allow anyone with any belief to stand up and talk in church!

    If what is being done is against the Scripture (which the type of tongues talked about in this thread is against the Scripture) then we do no placate the individual, we tell them to stop, rebuke them, and remove them if they fail to comply.

    I would want to talk to them further to present the truth to them but I would not be doing my job as a pastor if I allowed false teaching to go unchallenged right under my nose!

    And when the Mormons and JWs come to the door, I am polite, but I tell them the truth. I do not ask them into the house, but stand at the door with my Greek testament! They usually do not stick around for very long once they know I know what I am talking about. They are looking for confused uncertain people to lead astray, they are not looking for a true discussion of the matter at hand!

    [b:ca20e1d8e1]1 Tim 6[/b:ca20e1d8e1]
    3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, 4he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.

    [b:ca20e1d8e1]2 John[/b:ca20e1d8e1]
    9Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 11for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.

    Phillip
    Pastor Phillip M. Way
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    a mere housewife's Avatar
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    I just wanted to clarify that when I get out of the way for my elders and deacons to deal with the situation, they are hopefully not coming with handcuffs. (I'd rather see Private Bouncy leading a platoon of soldiers...) We are to "in meekness instruct those that oppose themselves..."
    Heidi
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    pastorway is offline. Inactive User
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    Those with handcuffs would be law enforcement officers, who would be right to arrest an individual who had been instructed to leave the church - for if they disrupt and do not leave when told to do so, they are trespassing and subject to arrest and charges!

    Phillip :mine:
    Pastor Phillip M. Way
    [url=http://www.timeintheword.org][color=blue] Maranatha Community Church of Central Texas[/color][/url]
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    When all souls are saved and all mourners comforted we may venture to discuss recondite theories, but not while graveyards are filling with those who know not God. -- CH Spurgeon

    [b]The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
    Luke 18:27[/b]

  22. #22
    a mere housewife's Avatar
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    I agree with that, but my previous post was about what I would do initially, & I think it was unclear that the elders/deacons would hopefully ask him to be quiet before bringing out their handcuffs :-). I didn't see your post before I posted, so it sounded like I was contradicting your post... but I wasn't.

    [Edited on 4-1-2004 by a mere housewife]
    Heidi
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    For he was strong and selfless, and I am tied to me.
    But I have asked my Jesus to live his life in me . . .
    Behold his warm, his tangible, his dear humanity.'
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  23. #23
    pastorway is offline. Inactive User
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    I understand....synchronized posting!!

    Phillip :boldblue::boldblue::boldblue:
    Pastor Phillip M. Way
    [url=http://www.timeintheword.org][color=blue] Maranatha Community Church of Central Texas[/color][/url]
    A Reformed Baptist Congregation and Member Church of the
    Fellowship of Independent Reformed Evangelicals [url=http://www.firefellowship.org][color=red](FIRE)[/color][/url]

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    When all souls are saved and all mourners comforted we may venture to discuss recondite theories, but not while graveyards are filling with those who know not God. -- CH Spurgeon

    [b]The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
    Luke 18:27[/b]

  24. #24
    mjbee is offline. Inactive User
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    Grrrrrr, Phillip! Your post at 22:16 will get a reply from me, but I'm exhausted and gotta go to bed. :flaming:
    Bee
    Melissa Brown
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    "It is better to be divided by truth than to be united in error. It is better to speak the truth that hurts and heals, than falsehood that comforts and then kills. Let me tell you something, friend, it is not love and it is not friendship if we fail to declare the whole counsel of God. It is better to be hated for telling the truth, than to be loved for telling a lie. It is impossible to find anyone in the Bible who was a power for God who did not have enemies and was not hated. It's better to stand alone with the truth, than to be wrong with a multitude. It is better to ultimately succeed with the truth than to temporarily succeed with a lie. There is only one Gospel and Paul said, 'If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.'"
    Pastor Adrian Rodgers, excerpts from talk, Nat'l Religious Broadcasters Convention, 1996

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    Rich Barcellos is offline. Puritanboard Freshman
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    tongues speaking during a worship service

    I think my post may have been taken in a way not intended. I said:
    [If the latter, I would stop the service and ask him to be quiet. If he refused, I would rebuke him. If he continued, I'd have our deacons and/or our two LA County armed deputies escort him out. If he was still around after the service, I would talk to him and exhort him not to do that again or find another church.]

    1. I would ask him to be quiet in the spirit of 2 Tm. 2:24-26.
    2. If he would not, I would rebuke him publicly for disorderliness (Col. 2:5; Tit. 1:9ff.; 3:9-10), since his disorderliness was public.
    3. If he continued, I'd have our deacons and/or armed deputies escort him out. I should have put a smiley after this. However, I would have either the deacons or deputies escort him out. I have seen what a disorderly person can do to a congregation. It takes brazened boldness to do such a thing, in most cases (unless it's done in complete ignorance, which is probably very rare, especially since it does not take much discernement to conclude that our church is not Charismatic).
    4. If he quited down and hung around, I'd seek to instruct him and invite him back.

    We once had a visitor who sat very uneasy during the sermon. After the service ended, he went to our book table. He started to make accusations of heresy. He then began to pass out anti-Calvinistic tracts and warning our people against their pastors (wolves in sheep's clothing). I approached him, kindly (by the grace of God I assure you; I gained much assurance of salvation at this time :-)) asked him to stop propogating such ideas to my sheep. He said something like, "What if I continue?" I said, "Then I'll have to ask you to leave." He went ballistic; started spouting off Scripture verses where Jesus denounced Pharisees and rattling off portions of the US Constitution. He then started approaching people who were coming out of the building and warning them, despite my efforts. One of my deacons (US Air Force :-)) and one of the deputies got the people back into the building and assisted me in shutting the guy up. Our people stayed in the buidling, prayed, then sang A Mighty Fortress is our God. He then went to his van and pulled out picket signs and starting marching on the property, yelling slanders about Calvinists (Reformers, Puritans, Spurgeon, me, our elders, etc.). Finally, we called the LA County Sherriff's office. They came immediately. When they arrived, they rolled their eyes. They knew who he was.

    The whole ordeal lasted over an hour. Some children were frightened. Their parents were able to assure them that all was well.

    Last I say the guy, he was handcuffed in the back of the sherriff's car. I found out later that he had been ex-communicated form Grace Community Church (John MacArthur) and was known to picket churches and cause civil disturbences.

    I suppose my experience in this situation has made me a bit on edge concerning those who would disrupt in like manner.

    BTW, the Holy Spirit is present with our church every time we meet. :-)
    Richard C. Barcellos
    Grace Reformed Baptist Church, Palmdale, CA (www.grbcav.org)

  26. #26
    brymaes is offline. Puritanboard Sophomore
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    [quote:246cdac40c][i:246cdac40c]Originally posted by Rich Barcellos[/i:246cdac40c]
    Last I say the guy, he was handcuffed in the back of the sherriff's car. I found out later that he had been ex-communicated form Grace Community Church (John MacArthur) and was known to picket churches and cause civil disturbences. [/quote:246cdac40c]

    Was it Darwin Fish, or one of his associates?

    :dueling:
    x

  27. #27
    kceaster's Avatar
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    What would happen...

    I don't know whether or not this is mean spirited or sinful. And, this may be slightly off topic, but I would be curious to see what would happen if one would go to a charismatic church and quote one of the OT texts in Hebrew, or read the NT in Greek. Do you think people would look at you funny? Or, say a person can speak fluent French, German, or Russian and stood up to read a portion of those Bible versions in their midst. Do you think that would make them uncomfortable?

    Have you ever witnessed a person get offended by two foreigners speaking in a public place, because they couldn't understand them? I wonder if charismatics ever do that.

    What they pass as language and think perfectly fine in the worship of God, they would probably take offense to if it were real and they couldn't understand it.

    But, I'm not coming from experience here, so I would be interested in what some of you would say to this.

    Would it offend a charismatic if someone were speaking an actual language?

    In Christ,

    KC
    Heb 13:20-21

    Kevin C. Easterday
    Ruling Elder and Pastoral Intern of Westminster PCA (Licentiate), Jacksonville, FL
    Husband to Tina (August 13, 1988), Father to Kamden (21) and Kolton (20)
    Federal Theology Website
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  28. #28
    Rich Barcellos is offline. Puritanboard Freshman
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    tongues speaking during a worship service

    Bryan asked:

    [quote:cf9ff750f6]
    Was it Darwin Fish, or one of his associates?
    [/quote:cf9ff750f6]

    The one, the only, the same. Ironically, he was invited by a man from our church who saw his van (the fish mobile) and invited him to church while stopped at a red light minutes before our service. Even more ironically, the guy who invited him ended up remembering Darwin from the Master's College and one of our deacons knew him and his wife from the mid 1980s at Grace. The next day, I called Phil Johnson and he filled me in. The Fishites have not visited us since.
    Richard C. Barcellos
    Grace Reformed Baptist Church, Palmdale, CA (www.grbcav.org)

  29. #29
    sundoulos is offline. Inactive User
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    A number of years ago, a man stood up and started quoting from Charles and Myrtle Fillmore. I was an elder in the church and the associate pastor (who was teaching that morning) was not familiar with the Fillmores (who founded Unity School of Christianity). I stood up and rebuked the man who didn't take kindly to it. I then turned to the congregation and said, "Charles and Myrtle Fillmore are burning in hell." Then I turned back to the man and said, "And that's where you will go if you continue to believe and teach those doctrines." The man picked up his stuff and left.

    On another occasion a man came up to me and said, "I have a word of prophecy for you." He did not know me, was a complete stranger to our community, and was visiting our church on his way through. I gave him leave to speak. He told me the thoughts of my heart and gave me an encouraging word from the Lord, quoting scripture. I never before or since have seen anything like this. Whether it was a word from God I could not state positively, yet what he said was true. No problem here.

    Disruption of a service, however, is always out of line and should be immediately dealt with.
    Willard (Bill) Paul, Teacher
    Kitsap Lake Baptist Church (SBC)
    Bremerton, WA

    "It is not what a man says he will do, but what he does,
    that determines his character and reveals his ethic."

  30. #30
    dswatts is offline. Puritanboard Freshman
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    [quote:d63a68a590][i:d63a68a590]Originally posted by paul manata[/i:d63a68a590]
    :rack: [/quote:d63a68a590]

    ROFLOL! That cracked me up!

    Personally, that is why I keep an extra hymnal in the pulpit...good for chunkin' (for those of you who aren't from Texas/the South...that means throw real hard!) at disruptive parishioners!

    Grace,
    Dwayne
    Dwayne S. Watts, Pastor
    Riverside Advent Christian Church
    Fort Worth, Texas

  31. #31
    brymaes is offline. Puritanboard Sophomore
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    [quote:db59312b9e][i:db59312b9e]Originally posted by dswatts[/i:db59312b9e]
    ...that is why I keep an extra hymnal in the pulpit...good for chunkin' (for those of you who aren't from Texas/the South...that means throw real hard!) at disruptive parishioners! [/quote:db59312b9e]

    Ahh...I shall have to keep that in mind...

    [Edited on 4/1/2004 by SharperSword]
    x

  32. #32
    mjbee is offline. Inactive User
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    Phillip, Pastorway, will you please stop doing that to Mormon missionaries? You said you do not ask them into your house. You said "They are looking for confused uncertain people to lead astray, they are not looking for a true discussion of the matter at hand." I beg to differ.
    James White's [i:2149347baf]Letters to a Mormon Elder[/i:2149347baf] has been a huge help to me. I guess I just have a heart for Mormons, and maybe you don't. I have yet to see a big red E (for ELECT) tattooed on anybody's forehead.
    I invite those young fools to my house for breakfast or lunch or dinner. They have my phone number. They are a long way from home, and, in typical cultic fashion, have limited contact with their families. They express shock and dismay that a "born-again" isn't throwing rocks at them. I listen and get to know them. We trade funny stories about our families. We get our Bibles out. I know their "theology," but they don't know mine. We go to John 6, Ephesians 1 & 2, and Romans 9. Mormon missionaries are masters of red herrings. I pretty much know what they're gonna say.
    Please, PLEASE don't keep these clueless young men out of your house! At least invite them to your kitchen for a cold glass of water. You may be the only chance they have of hearing the gospel of grace, and beating them over the head with your Bible at the door is not a good presentation.
    They aren't the Antichrist. If they are regenerated and believe the gospel of grace, they face a rough road. Believe me, I know. I was raised Catholic. Coming out of a cult is a....pain.
    In His love,
    Melissa
    Melissa Brown
    Evansville, Indiana
    Looking for a body of believers to hook up with
    "It is better to be divided by truth than to be united in error. It is better to speak the truth that hurts and heals, than falsehood that comforts and then kills. Let me tell you something, friend, it is not love and it is not friendship if we fail to declare the whole counsel of God. It is better to be hated for telling the truth, than to be loved for telling a lie. It is impossible to find anyone in the Bible who was a power for God who did not have enemies and was not hated. It's better to stand alone with the truth, than to be wrong with a multitude. It is better to ultimately succeed with the truth than to temporarily succeed with a lie. There is only one Gospel and Paul said, 'If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.'"
    Pastor Adrian Rodgers, excerpts from talk, Nat'l Religious Broadcasters Convention, 1996

  33. #33
    rembrandt is offline. Inactive User
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    [quote:72538b53ff]Would it offend a charismatic if someone were speaking an actual language?[/quote:72538b53ff]

    they are very touchy people.

    sundoulos, that sort of accuracy in a prophetic utterance is not unusual. it fact it is common place among practicing "prophets." I believe these people do have access into the supernatural. I was among them at one time and was trained under a thirdwave prophetess. These people are definetly possessed of a spirit. And it is strange to see the things that these spirits do to these people who profess to prophesy.

    There are demonic spirits that speak the truth of God. Take for example the women following Paul around on his missionary trip and simon the sorcerer. Anybody today claiming to have new revelation must be immediately shot down.

    Rembrandt

  34. #34
    rembrandt is offline. Inactive User
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    [quote:ca1f85ef49][i:ca1f85ef49]Originally posted by mjbee[/i:ca1f85ef49]
    Phillip, Pastorway, will you please stop doing that to Mormon missionaries? You said you do not ask them into your house. You said "They are looking for confused uncertain people to lead astray, they are not looking for a true discussion of the matter at hand." I beg to differ.
    James White's [i:ca1f85ef49]Letters to a Mormon Elder[/i:ca1f85ef49] has been a huge help to me. I guess I just have a heart for Mormons, and maybe you don't. I have yet to see a big red E (for ELECT) tattooed on anybody's forehead.
    I invite those young fools to my house for breakfast or lunch or dinner. They have my phone number. They are a long way from home, and, in typical cultic fashion, have limited contact with their families. They express shock and dismay that a "born-again" isn't throwing rocks at them. I listen and get to know them. We trade funny stories about our families. We get our Bibles out. I know their "theology," but they don't know mine. We go to John 6, Ephesians 1 & 2, and Romans 9. Mormon missionaries are masters of red herrings. I pretty much know what they're gonna say.
    Please, PLEASE don't keep these clueless young men out of your house! At least invite them to your kitchen for a cold glass of water. You may be the only chance they have of hearing the gospel of grace, and beating them over the head with your Bible at the door is not a good presentation.
    They aren't the Antichrist. If they are regenerated and believe the gospel of grace, they face a rough road. Believe me, I know. I was raised Catholic. Coming out of a cult is a....pain.
    In His love,
    Melissa [/quote:ca1f85ef49]

    speaking the truth in love is definitely the most important tool to get these heretics to listen. But I must tell you that you are violating scripture by doing what you say you are doing. "Do not invite them into your house." "Have no fellowship among them." "Why be yoked with a non-believer?" Paul even instructs us not to eat with them!! Of course he is talking about fellowshiping over a meal, but it sounds like that is what you are doing. However I prize your patience with such savages.

    Rembrandt

    [Edited on 4-2-2004 by rembrandt]

  35. #35
    pastorway is offline. Inactive User
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    For the record, I talk to them and ask questions about the gospel. I explain the Scriptural text to them. I do not beat them over the head. I am not rude. I am presenting to them a gospel of grace.

    But they are trained with their answers to our objections to their theology. So I use the Greek text as a starting point! Let's settle what the Bible says and then see if they can support sound theology from their belief system.

    I don't chase them off. They need to be saved. But at the same time, they are false teachers!! And to ask them in to my house would indeed violate the Word of God.

    2 John
    9Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. [u:5a5cd9f41d]10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 11for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds[/u:5a5cd9f41d].

    We are to lovingly present the truth. We are not required to offer a venue for a charitable debate as if what they believe is on equal terms with the Bible. We are not relatavists, nor are we pluralists. The gospel is right and they are wrong.

    Often, as soon as I answer a few of their objections from Scripture they beat a hasty retreat. They are indeed looking for people who are not sure of what they believe!!

    Unless and until they recant their error and seek salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone they are doomed. Jut as we all were when we were ourselves "children of wrath." (Eph 2:1-2). So please do not think I am mean and rude. I am not. But neither am I soft and wishy-washy. I present the truth and let them know I am concerned for their souls. And they rarely come back to my house, unless they are bringing an elder with them to dispute my claims!

    Phillip

    [Edited on 4-2-04 by pastorway]
    Pastor Phillip M. Way
    [url=http://www.timeintheword.org][color=blue] Maranatha Community Church of Central Texas[/color][/url]
    A Reformed Baptist Congregation and Member Church of the
    Fellowship of Independent Reformed Evangelicals [url=http://www.firefellowship.org][color=red](FIRE)[/color][/url]

    Blogging at: [url=http://pastorway.blogspot.com/][color=blue][i]pastorway[/i][/color][/url]
    Sermons Online at: [url=http://www.sermonaudio.com/timeintheword][color=blue]TIME in the Word Ministries[/color][/url]

    When all souls are saved and all mourners comforted we may venture to discuss recondite theories, but not while graveyards are filling with those who know not God. -- CH Spurgeon

    [b]The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
    Luke 18:27[/b]

  36. #36
    Bladestunner316's Avatar
    Bladestunner316 is offline. Puritanboard Doctor
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    I never thought about not inviting them in good verse I cant remember reading it before

    blade
    Nathan Olaf Brandal

    "Man is nothing: he hath a free will to go to hell, but none to go to heaven, till God worketh in him to will and to do his good pleasure"
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  37. #37
    FrozenChosen is offline. Inactive User
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    [quote:ed372ed3fe][i:ed372ed3fe]Originally posted by pastorway[/i:ed372ed3fe]
    For the record, I talk to them and ask questions about the gospel. I explain the Scriptural text to them. I do not beat them over the head. I am not rude. I am presenting to them a gospel of grace. [/quote:ed372ed3fe]

    Pastorway,

    That's just the way to do it with just about anything! :grin:

    Tough as nails and tender at the same time!
    Daniel Pope
    McIlwain Memorial Presbyterian, PCA, Pensacola FL (member)
    Covenant Presbyterian Church, PCA, Auburn AL

    [url=http://www.auburn.edu/~popedan]The Vatican [/url]| [url=http://www.livejournal.com/users/raij]Livejournal[/url] | [url=http://www.blogpod.com/Browse/Blog.asp?id=4455&6%2F16%2F2004+11%3A39%3A53+AM] Theology Blog[/url]

  38. #38
    A_Wild_Boar is offline. Inactive User
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    [quote:97f672b97c][i:97f672b97c]Originally posted by sundoulos[/i:97f672b97c]

    On another occasion a man came up to me and said, "I have a word of prophecy for you." He did not know me, was a complete stranger to our community, and was visiting our church on his way through. I gave him leave to speak. He told me the thoughts of my heart and gave me an encouraging word from the Lord, quoting scripture. I never before or since have seen anything like this. Whether it was a word from God I could not state positively, yet what he said was true. No problem here.
    [/quote:97f672b97c]

    The guy could have been a cold reader. Most people who were read dont even know it. Then again it could be authentic but I dont think any is authentic unless it has "Thus sayeth the Lord" in it and it comes true.

  39. #39
    Wannabee's Avatar
    Wannabee is offline. Obi Wan Kenobi
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    [quote:8053519398]KC
    I don't know whether or not this is mean spirited or sinful. And, this may be slightly off topic, but I would be curious to see what would happen if one would go to a charismatic church and quote one of the OT texts in Hebrew, or read the NT in Greek. Do you think people would look at you funny?[/quote:8053519398]Actually, a fellow student was telling me just today about a group of guys from a TMS Charismatic Theology class that went to a charismatic service one time to check it out. Toward the end of the 'service' people started going forward and speaking tongues in microphones they had set up. After they spoke an interpreter would share the revelation . Well, one of the guys had memorized a Psalm (sorry, can't remember which one) in Hebrew and went forward to shared his 'revelation' with the crowd. You guessed it, an interpreter stood up and interpreted it. Hehe, the guy told him that he was way off and that he'd just spoken a Psalm in Hebrew. Well, that was the end of their visit. They actually had ushers (can you say "bouncers&quot escort him out post haste. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin: I don't think I'd have the guts for something like that, but it is funny.
    For the Glory of our King,
    Joe Johnson
    Slave of Christ, husband, father, grandfather and TMS graduate. Personal website - SoundLife.org
    I do not know, and I do not say, that a person cannot believe in Revelation and in evolution, too, for a man may believe that which is infinitely wise and also that which is only asinine. ~ CHS
    1 member(s) found this post helpful.

  40. #40
    mjbee is offline. Inactive User
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    I have unbelievers in my house every day. My grown daughters are unbelievers. My older sister is RC. My late mother was also a Catholic. My neighbors don't even pretend to be Christians, let alone Reformed. What, I'm supposed to not let anybody but a Reformed Christian into my house? RUBBISH!!!! Inviting somebody in hardly constitutes an unequal yoking! Didn't you ever read about the Samaritan? Can't you extend hospitality to someone without disqualifying him/her for religious beliefs? Didn't you ever read Hebrews 13:2? Or Proverbs 24:11-12? Ya'all need to go to Oz, and get a heart. Thank God the person who shared the gospel of grace with me didn't write me off because I grew up Catholic! If you only love those who love you (or who share your beliefs), what good is that?
    Paul was talking about excommunicating a church member. I hardly think that applies to our behavior toward unbelievers in general. Context context CONTEXT!!! Oy!
    Melissa Brown
    Evansville, Indiana
    Looking for a body of believers to hook up with
    "It is better to be divided by truth than to be united in error. It is better to speak the truth that hurts and heals, than falsehood that comforts and then kills. Let me tell you something, friend, it is not love and it is not friendship if we fail to declare the whole counsel of God. It is better to be hated for telling the truth, than to be loved for telling a lie. It is impossible to find anyone in the Bible who was a power for God who did not have enemies and was not hated. It's better to stand alone with the truth, than to be wrong with a multitude. It is better to ultimately succeed with the truth than to temporarily succeed with a lie. There is only one Gospel and Paul said, 'If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.'"
    Pastor Adrian Rodgers, excerpts from talk, Nat'l Religious Broadcasters Convention, 1996

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