Pastor Mark, I must first profess the high esteem that I have for you, your teaching and your mission. I frequently utilize your videos and books in my classes/courses and feel you are the right man "for such a time as this". A light in the darkness. I praise God for you, your family and your ministry. Christ is honored and God glorified through you and Mars Hill.

I have read some of your responses to the recent Time article, (10 Ideas Changing the World Right Now - #3 The New Calvinism) particularly how you draw distinctions between the "old" and "new" Calvinism. I tend to agree with the high level summaries you utilized, however I do have some "heartburn" with how you characterized the "new" Calvinist as seemingly 100% continuationist. From the exposure I have had to your theological positions, I believe that you are probably at least partially cessationistic. The reason I believe this is because I, until very recently, would have also characterized myself as a continuationist until I was exposed to a couple of paradigms that made me re-think my alignment to this position. I'd like to present these paradigms, challenge you to consider the implications and present a framework that I pray may be helpful.

First, my understanding of the initiation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit was the occurance in the 1st century we Christians refer to as Pentecost. This historic event was captured in Scripture through the guidance of the Holy Spirit by the physician and Christian historian Luke in his 2nd letter to Theophilus that has been named the Acts of the Apostles - commonly called Acts.

This event was specifically prophesied by Jesus several times in Scripture, but particularly relevant to the subject at hand in Acts and John:


I took careful note of the last part I bolded in John 14:26 as I studied this subject. It was a particularly important statement as I was considering the 2 doctrinal positions, particularly in light of the framework of cessationism and continuationism presented in this article by Phil Johnson over at Pyromaniacs:

1 - If you believe any of the miraculous spiritual gifts were operative in the apostolic era only, and that some or all of those gifts gradually ceased before the end of the first century, you are a cessationist.

2 - If you believe all the spiritual gifts described in the New Testament have continued unabated, unchanged, and unaltered since the initial outpouring of tongues at Pentecost, you are a continuationist.

Now, I am fairly certain that you would agree that at least one activity associated with the initial gifting of the Holy Spirit has ceased - that is - the ability to prophesy Scripture. I also think you'll agree that this gift was only valid during the formation of the New Testament canon, otherwise, the Lord is still delivering Scripture through the Holy Spirit to His people today and the Reformed principle of Sola Scriptura is rendered invalid...

see the rest of the article over at ChristianSkepticism.org

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-JD

Although I've enjoyed some of Mark Driscoll's preaching, I'm very disappointed by his list. Even in areas which I agree with the distinction: cessation vs continuation, his wording is very ungracious. His new found fame seems to be inflating his ego and making him think more highly of his ministry than he ought and not highly enough of the ministries that have gone before him.

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Alex
Member of Carmel Baptist Church (SBC)
Matthews, NC

Did you sent it to him as well, or just post it on your blog?

Personally, I thought that all four of Pastor Mark's New vs. Old were oversimplifications.

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Pastor Nathan Eshelman, Los Angeles, CA
Reformed Presbyterian Church
PRESBYTERIAN THOUGHTS
Los Angeles Reformed Presbyterian Church
RPCLA Sermons Online
Puritan Reformed Seminary

Just posted it - does he have an addy?

I think they were somewhat oversimplified, but the continuationist part is what I have been dealing with closely at home

I am sure that he has a link where you can email him on the Mars site. You could also mail it there and address it to him. I think that is important in 'open letters'.

I don't think any of the four were that accurate, at least from my theological perspective.

Was Calvin ecumenical with others in the protestant tradition? Yep. How about today in groups like the Banner of Truth or Alliance for Confessing Evangelicals- each of these groups is 'Old Calvinism' and reach out beyond denominational boundaries.

How about cities? Sure many Calvinists fled the cities- many due to their trades. The Scots and the Dutch were often farmers and workers of the land- not too much room for that in downtown LA! Of course, there are some Old Calvinists who still love the city- me being one of them.

How about Gifts? The Covenanters were not cessationists- many of them 'prophesied' while they were being martyred. This has often been the case with martyrs... sure it wasn't the norm...

How about counter-culturalism- Many Old Calvinists were and are counter-cultural and even made their own sub-cultures. Think of the Heritage Reformed Churches or the Netherlands Reformed Churches- they do not feel like 21st c. America- they have a counter culture- it just does not include tats and nose rings!

My question- what will New Calvinism look like when it is middle aged? Will it be in the slums or will it have moved out the burbs to be safe and raise their kids? Will it care about ripped jeans and died hair? Will it still be reaching out to the greater Christian community, or will it have developed its own niche within Christianity?

To me it seems premature and even presumptive to say that these 4 things will continue- hopefully the "New Calvinists" will not move on to the next fad in Christianity. I really hope not.

And that is from someone (me) who loves the New and the Old!

The other thing I got out of his list is that his "New Calvinism" seems to be a listing of what he is. i.e.: #1 - that's me! #2 - that's me! #3 - that's me! #4 - that's me!

Sorry, I see much more ego and much less critical thinking on the topic than I would have liked to. But I have no great love for the man, so take that with a small bucket of salt.

__________________
Kevin, husband of a truly angelic woman, and father to ten.
Zion United Reformed Church of Sheffield
Ontario, Canada

I think I would agree with this assessment, and I am a "fan" (see my facebook page) of Driscoll.

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Brian Vandenburg
Member of Westminster Presbyterian Church (PCA)
Vancouver, WA
"The authority of the Holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed, and obeyed, depends not upon the testimony of any man, or Church; but wholly upon God (who is truth itself) the author thereof: and therefore it is to be received, because it is the Word of God."-Westminster Confession of Faith

Well, he was declared one of the triumvirate of the 'New Calvinism', along with John Piper and Al Mohler, by that great theological journal, the New York Times, in that article previously referred to.

He is a little happy with his position in the limelight, isn't he? All that "influence" he's got.

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Todd K. Pedlar
member, First Congregational Church, (CCCC) Cresco, IA
http://inprincipiodeus.solideogloria.com
http://puritanwisdom.blogspot.com

"As God did not at first choose you because you were high, He will not now forsake you because you are low."
John Flavel in Keeping the Heart



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Charitably,

What we have here is someone is understanding parts, but not all of reformed theology.

The Pastor is getting some things right, but is getting others wrong, or at least is not representing them accurately to media. And this is an opportunity for a high profile leader in the Body of Christ to "get it right" for the Honor and Glory of God.

Mr. Calvin was known as the "theologian of the Holy Spirit" because he helped restore the rightful co-eternal role of the third member of the trinity to church doctrine and practice. What that means, he does not seem to understand (as his views represented through media, anyway).

This Pastor has had some other issues lately, maybe God is using all this to refine him, but we need to pray for Him...
that He will faithfully bear out the doctrines of Holy Scripture as he is given opportunity by major media- not to divide or misrepresent, but point people to the glorious truths of God!

__________________
Scott
PCA
North Carolina


"Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)"
Hebrews 10:23

I'm not a fan of Driscoll, and I'll admit that I'm not interested enough to check him out any further than I have, but isn't this coming rather close to attributing motivations to him?

__________________
Ruben
Moderator
F.P.C.I.
Indiana

Vanities and disguises have covered us, and thereby we are naked; licenciousness hath inflam'd us, and thereby we are frozen; voluptuousness hath fed us, and thereby we are sterved, the fancies and traditions of men have taught and instructed us, and thereby we are ignorant.
John Donne

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Calvinistas Conversando
Teología en Mexico
The Howling Wilderness

It is, and that's a line I did not want to cross. I don't know the man's heart of course, it is just a comment based on what I've seen/read/know of him (which is neither a lot nor a little). I guess part of me resents the attention the man gets while there are brothers who in my mind are so much more orthodox that get none for their faithfulness.

This guy just puts a burr in my britches; my apologies.