Thread: A Humble Argument for the Cessation of NT Prophecy and Tongues

Perhaps one of the most debated topics among modern Christians is the subject of tongues and prophecy. Many believers in our day are raising the question, Are the New Testament gifts of tongues and prophecy still for today? There are three basic answers often given to this question: "Yes," "No," and "Maybe." Providing Scriptural support for one’s answer is not a simple task. There’s not one conclusive proof-text, to my knowledge, that settles the issue for any position. The advocates of each position appeal to Scripture and advance theological arguments for their viewpoint. Nevertheless, I do believe the weight of biblical evidence tips the scales toward the cessationist position. By God’s grace I shall argue for the cessationist position in a spirit of humility, acknowledging that there are good men representing each of these positions

The Cessation of Special Revelation: A Humble Argument for the Cessation of NT Prophecy and Tongues, Part 1

Enjoy!

Your servant,

I'll be looking forward to the series. This is certainly an incredibly relevant issue that is the subject of far too little teaching, even in Reformed congregations (IMHO).

Thank you brother Bob, I think this is a great idea for a series and one of value to the church - especially considering the attitude in which you are undertaking it. The series also reminds me of your question to me at my ordination council about Agabus (I almost started sweating reflexively as I read the thread's headline!). Speaking of which, I hope you will discuss Grudem's (and others) take on "fallible" NT prophesy. I think the etymology and the historical use of the word "prophesy" has added to the confusion (ex. any charismatic picking up the "Art of Prophesying" by Noel Weeks may be a bit disappointed at first...only to be encouraged later).

I have found Sam Waldron's and O. Palmer Robertson's books helpful. Bob, do you have any other personal recommendations from your own study other than what you listed in your footnotes?

Originally Posted by CovenantalBaptist

Thank you brother Bob, I think this is a great idea for a series and one of value to the church - especially considering the attitude in which you are undertaking it. The series also reminds me of your question to me at my ordination council about Agabus (I almost started sweating reflexively as I read the thread's headline!). Speaking of which, I hope you will discuss Grudem's (and others) take on "fallible" NT prophesy. I think the etymology and the historical use of the word "prophesy" has added to the confusion (ex. any charismatic picking up the "Art of Prophesying" by Noel Weeks may be a bit disappointed at first...only to be encouraged later).

I have found Sam Waldron's and O. Palmer Robertson's books helpful. Bob, do you have any other personal recommendations from your own study other than what you listed in your footnotes?

Hey, Chris. Great to hear from you. I hope the series will be useful. I do plan to interact primarily with Grudem's view. I agree with your assessment of Waldron's and Robertson's books. Gaffin's Pentecost is also useful. Moreover, I think I found an article by Lee Irons that helpful outlined the various positions. As I post installments of the series, I'll include bibliographical references in footnotes. I wasn't aware of the work by Noel Weeks. He's an OT scholar, isn't he? Does he make some helpful contributions to the debate?

Your servant,

You are quite correct: this is an oft debated and controversial topic in modern evangelical Christendom, and I too will be reading your treatment of the subject which I'm certain I'll enjoy. Presently, I'm 99% Cessationist. I do see the various Charismatic gifts to be coinciding with Pentecostal episodes in Scripture (there being three documented, I think off the cuff) and such situations are nigh on impossible to replicate in the modern world. However, it is, to me, not impossible to have such a thing happen even today under extreme and very peculiar circumstances. To me, if some tribe in the darkest jungles, completely isolated from the outside world were to be stumbled upon by a missionary, a small, local and very isolated Pentecostal experience could conceivably happen; where for the first time the Word of God is seen by these people and it thus comes with the kind of particular power which shows clearly the omniscience of God to said primitives. However, it would be, just as it was in Scripture, short lived. Once the tribe saw the power of God among them as the Holy Spirit began to move their hearts, such things would (or at least should in truth) fade quickly as reliance upon the revealed Word becomes the standard.

Theognome

Originally Posted by Theognome

You are quite correct: this is an oft debated and controversial topic in modern evangelical Christendom, and I too will be reading your treatment of the subject which I'm certain I'll enjoy. Presently, I'm 99% Cessationist. I do see the various Charismatic gifts to be coinciding with Pentecostal episodes in Scripture (there being three documented, I think off the cuff) and such situations are nigh on impossible to replicate in the modern world. However, it is, to me, not impossible to have such a thing happen even today under extreme and very peculiar circumstances. To me, if some tribe in the darkest jungles, completely isolated from the outside world were to be stumbled upon by a missionary, a small, local and very isolated Pentecostal experience could conceivably happen; where for the first time the Word of God is seen by these people and it thus comes with the kind of particular power which shows clearly the omniscience of God to said primitives. However, it would be, just as it was in Scripture, short lived. Once the tribe saw the power of God among them as the Holy Spirit began to move their hearts, such things would (or at least should in truth) fade quickly as reliance upon the revealed Word becomes the standard.

Theognome

Dear Bill,

Thanks for your interests in the posts and helpful comments. Your position seems to correspond with Calvin's. I think other good Reformed and Puritan men have held the position that the gifts of prophecy and tongues have generally ceased but God may resurrect them for a brief time and for a limited purpose under unique circumstances. The article by Dean Smith cited in one of my footnotes documents a number of 16th and 17th century men who seemed to believe that the Lord had bestowed such gifts on a few great leaders during the Reformation and Puritan era in order to advance of the truth.

Your servant,

How do you explain the many documented stories of tongues being spoken at a meeting ( by a person who truly did not know what they were saying), where somebody knew that language and was saved or ministered to? You have to deny a lot of credible testimonies.

I have a friend who got saved in college and kept repeatedly getting a specific word in her mind and coming out of her mouth as she prayed. ( she eventually ended up teaching solid state physics, she was no dummy). She consulted a secular brilliant Jewish linguist to ask if it was a known word, and he checked out all his books and told her it appeared to be the ancient aramaic word for "praise".

How can anybody say God could not raise up an Agabus again, or give tongues?

Vern Poythress of WTS covers the subject in some detail from a cessationist position; note the examples at the end under #12.

Modern Spiritual Gifts as Analogous to Apostolic Gifts

edit- Theognome hits the nail on the head. Ultimately God brings people to know His holy perfect word, but He can begin with another book of Acts if He chooses.

We visited a sister PCA church recently with missionary reporting in from his Muslim nation. He said it is AMAZING all the Muslims to whom God is appearing in dreams, and revealing to them that He is God. They are getting saved all over the place in dreams and Damascus road visions. Of course the next step is that they seek out more ( like bibles!!!) but God can elect His chosen even without preaching. I admit it is probabaly very rare, but it is happening. Thank God. He is not limited by even the darkest of deceptions in any nations.

I would also reccomend Kenneth L. Gentry's "The Charasmatic Gift of Prophecy, a reformed response to Wayne Grudem"

Originally Posted by lynnie

How do you explain the many documented stories of tongues being spoken at a meeting ( by a person who truly did not know what they were saying), where somebody knew that language and was saved or ministered to? You have to deny a lot of credible testimonies.

I have a friend who got saved in college and kept repeatedly getting a specific word in her mind and coming out of her mouth as she prayed. ( she eventually ended up teaching solid state physics, she was no dummy). She consulted a secular brilliant Jewish linguist to ask if it was a known word, and he checked out all his books and told her it appeared to be the ancient aramaic word for "praise".

How can anybody say God could not raise up an Agabus again, or give tongues?

Vern Poythress of WTS covers the subject in some detail from a cessationist position; note the examples at the end under #12.

Modern Spiritual Gifts as Analogous to Apostolic Gifts

edit- Theognome hits the nail on the head. Ultimately God brings people to know His holy perfect word, but He can begin with another book of Acts if He chooses.

We visited a sister PCA church recently with missionary reporting in from his Muslim nation. He said it is AMAZING all the Muslims to whom God is appearing in dreams, and revealing to them that He is God. They are getting saved all over the place in dreams and Damascus road visions. Of course the next step is that they seek out more ( like bibles!!!) but God can elect His chosen even without preaching. I admit it is probabaly very rare, but it is happening. Thank God. He is not limited by even the darkest of deceptions in any nations.

The problem is that this sort of phenomena is often reported in Muslim, Roman Catholic, and indigenous religions alike. I cannot base my assessment of the cessationist/charismatic debate on hearsay from foreign nations. Scripture must be our authority.

I have heard many stories of these Muslim dream visions as well. I find it odd that God is reportedly affirming the Jesus Film's depiction of Christ (and its violation of the 2nd Commandment)...

Originally Posted by Dr. Bob Gonzales

Hey, Chris. Great to hear from you. I hope the series will be useful. I do plan to interact primarily with Grudem's view. I agree with your assessment of Waldron's and Robertson's books. Gaffin's Pentecost is also useful. Moreover, I think I found an article by Lee Irons that helpful outlined the various positions. As I post installments of the series, I'll include bibliographical references in footnotes. I wasn't aware of the work by Noel Weeks. He's an OT scholar, isn't he? Does he make some helpful contributions to the debate?

Your servant,

Sorry Bob, the reference to Weeks as "author" was incomplete - Weeks was the modern editor who revised/modernized William Perkins' work on preaching for the Banner Puritan paperback series. Perkins position was to deny additional "revelations." I don't think it would be directly useful to you except to gain a Puritan view on additional revelation.

I referred to it merely to point out the confusing etymology of the word "prophesy." Puritans like Perkins would use it synonomously with preaching. I have known modern Pentecostals to refer to preaching as "fallible prophesy" which just adds to the confusion. Thus, a modern Pentecostal who picked up the book would be confused (and D.V. later edified) by Perkins' cessationism.

I do appreciate you navigating these waters as I both love, appreciate and was named after one of the non-cessationist men in those three portraits you referred to, while remaining a convinced cessasionist myself.

BTW, you might also look up Fred Pugh's brief article in one of the ARBCA update newsletters from 2007. I found his argument thought provoking and I'm still thinking about it. It was based on his exegesis of several passages including Peter's quoting of the full prophecy from Joel in Acts 2 which I had not heard before. If you would like a copy, send me an email and I'll dig it up for you.

Originally Posted by lynnie

How do you explain the many documented stories of tongues being spoken at a meeting ( by a person who truly did not know what they were saying), where somebody knew that language and was saved or ministered to? You have to deny a lot of credible testimonies.

I have a friend who got saved in college and kept repeatedly getting a specific word in her mind and coming out of her mouth as she prayed. ( she eventually ended up teaching solid state physics, she was no dummy). She consulted a secular brilliant Jewish linguist to ask if it was a known word, and he checked out all his books and told her it appeared to be the ancient aramaic word for "praise".

How can anybody say God could not raise up an Agabus again, or give tongues?

Vern Poythress of WTS covers the subject in some detail from a cessationist position; note the examples at the end under #12.

Modern Spiritual Gifts as Analogous to Apostolic Gifts

edit- Theognome hits the nail on the head. Ultimately God brings people to know His holy perfect word, but He can begin with another book of Acts if He chooses.

We visited a sister PCA church recently with missionary reporting in from his Muslim nation. He said it is AMAZING all the Muslims to whom God is appearing in dreams, and revealing to them that He is God. They are getting saved all over the place in dreams and Damascus road visions. Of course the next step is that they seek out more ( like bibles!!!) but God can elect His chosen even without preaching. I admit it is probabaly very rare, but it is happening. Thank God. He is not limited by even the darkest of deceptions in any nations.

Lynnie,

Thanks for the Poythress article. I've bookmarked it and plan to read it. I am somewhat wary of placing too much weight on the use of anecdotal evidence as support for the continuance of the genuine tongues and prophecy described in the NT, as such kinds of subjective evidence is subject to a wide range of interpretations. We all still have dreams. But it's notoriously difficult to discern whether any of them constitute divine revelation that we or others must follow. I have heard many anecdotal stories of incidents of alleged prophetic dreams, prophecies and/or foreign language prophecies (i.e., tongues) which turned out to be false. (e.g., someone knowing Hebrew went into a Charismatic service and uttered a Hebrew Psalm. A member of the church interpreting the message and demonstrated by his ignorance of Hebrew that he had no clue as to the meaning of the message and certainly no gift of interpretation.) Have you read Warfield's Counterfeit Miracles? I won't say there's no place for anecdotal evidence. I do believe, however, that all such evidence must be tested by the Scripture.

Having said that, let me add that my argument for cessationism will, I hope, betray a spirit of humility and teachability. As I indicated to Bill above, there have been some Reformed and Puritan who were basically cessationists but who, nevertheless, believed God might revive the ancient gifts temporarily in special situations. I'm not sure that I'd be willing to die at the stake denying the possibility that God might do such a thing. But, as I shall argue in the post, the biblical data, in my view, seems to suggest that special (redemptive) revelation culminates in the apostolic witness to Christ (who is God's final word) and, therefore, God's people should not expect a "new word" until Christ returns. That's where I believe the scales tip. That doesn't mean, however, my task of making this case will be easy.

Your servant,

-----Added 3/3/2009 at 09:18:03 EST-----

Originally Posted by Roldan

I would also reccomend Kenneth L. Gentry's "The Charasmatic Gift of Prophecy, a reformed response to Wayne Grudem"

Richard,

Thanks for the recommendation of Gentry's book. I've heard of it (good things) but have not read it. I'll try to see if I can find a used copy on the internet or perhaps in a local seminary library. Thanks again for your recommendation.

Your servant,

-----Added 3/3/2009 at 09:19:45 EST-----

Originally Posted by CovenantalBaptist

Originally Posted by Dr. Bob Gonzales

Hey, Chris. Great to hear from you. I hope the series will be useful. I do plan to interact primarily with Grudem's view. I agree with your assessment of Waldron's and Robertson's books. Gaffin's Pentecost is also useful. Moreover, I think I found an article by Lee Irons that helpful outlined the various positions. As I post installments of the series, I'll include bibliographical references in footnotes. I wasn't aware of the work by Noel Weeks. He's an OT scholar, isn't he? Does he make some helpful contributions to the debate?

Your servant,

Sorry Bob, the reference to Weeks as "author" was incomplete - Weeks was the modern editor who revised/modernized William Perkins' work on preaching for the Banner Puritan paperback series. Perkins position was to deny additional "revelations." I don't think it would be directly useful to you except to gain a Puritan view on additional revelation.

I referred to it merely to point out the confusing etymology of the word "prophesy." Puritans like Perkins would use it synonomously with preaching. I have known modern Pentecostals to refer to preaching as "fallible prophesy" which just adds to the confusion. Thus, a modern Pentecostal who picked up the book would be confused (and D.V. later edified) by Perkins' cessationism.

I do appreciate you navigating these waters as I both love, appreciate and was named after one of the non-cessationist men in those three portraits you referred to, while remaining a convinced cessasionist myself.

BTW, you might also look up Fred Pugh's brief article in one of the ARBCA update newsletters from 2007. I found his argument thought provoking and I'm still thinking about it. It was based on his exegesis of several passages including Peter's quoting of the full prophecy from Joel in Acts 2 which I had not heard before. If you would like a copy, send me an email and I'll dig it up for you.

Chris,

I was familiar with Perkin's use of "prophesy" in the broader sense of preaching. I am interested in Pugh's article. Is there an electronic copy you could email me?

Would a cessationist view also include the ending of miracles and the supernatural in total?

Originally Posted by William Price

Would a cessationist view also include the ending of miracles and the supernatural in total?

Heavens no! This is clearly not in question and never has been. I don't know why it keeps getting inserted into the discussion of cessationism vs continuationism regarding the "sign gifts" which were invested in individuals as described in Scripture.



Sorry. Not meant as a rant.

Bob, do you plan on interacting with Carson's Showing the Spirit?

Originally Posted by William Price

Would a cessationist view also include the ending of miracles and the supernatural in total?

William,

Good question. As Jim notes, the question of ongoing miracles is much broader than the question of ongoing prophecy (whether in native or foreign tongue). My study will focus on the latter. My present answer to your question, however, would be "no." Indeed, one of the greatest of all miracles recorded in the Bible is the supernatural transformation of a spiritually dead sinner into a spiritually alive saint. Moreover, there are other kinds of miracles as, for example, God healing a sick person in such a way that defies a medical explanation. On the other hand, Scripture seems to highlight a special genre of miracle, i.e., a might redemptive typological act of God. Examples would include the Flood-Judgment, the Exodus, the Conquest of Canaan, the Incarnation, the Resurrection of Christ, and the Day of Pentecost. I believe this type of miracle culminated in Christ's first coming (and the events surrounding it). I also believe this type of miracle will occur again when Christ returns. In the meantime, however, I don't believe the Scriptures encourage us to look for ongoing typological-kind of miracles. The miracle of Christ's present binding of the strong man (i.e., Satan), the worldwide spread of the gospel, and the conversion of sinners from every tribe, people and tongue should be miracle enough for us until Christ returns. That's my present position.

Your servant,

Originally Posted by CovenantalBaptist

BTW, you might also look up Fred Pugh's brief article in one of the ARBCA update newsletters from 2007. I found his argument thought provoking and I'm still thinking about it. It was based on his exegesis of several passages including Peter's quoting of the full prophecy from Joel in Acts 2 which I had not heard before. If you would like a copy, send me an email and I'll dig it up for you.

Hi Chris

I wouldn't mind seeing that article either. Could you email it to timmopussycat@yahoo.com

Originally Posted by FenderPriest

Bob, do you plan on interacting with Carson's Showing the Spirit?

Jacob,

Good question. I do interact a bit with Carson, but, I confess, I don't have his book and rely on secondary sources that cite him on the relevant passages in Corinthians. Your post makes me think I should run over to the local library and check out that book. Or perhaps I should just order a copy. I own many of Carson's books and consider him to be one of the finest exegetes and NT scholars who every lived.

Your servant,

Originally Posted by Dr. Bob Gonzales

Originally Posted by FenderPriest

Bob, do you plan on interacting with Carson's Showing the Spirit?

Jacob,

Good question. I do interact a bit with Carson, but, I confess, I don't have his book and rely on secondary sources that cite him on the relevant passages in Corinthians. Your post makes me think I should run over to the local library and check out that book. Or perhaps I should just order a copy. I own many of Carson's books and consider him to be one of the finest exegetes and NT scholars who every lived.

Your servant,

Bob, I'd recommend Carson. His work is one of the most helpful exegetical contributions to the issue of the gifts. He quotes Grudem at points, but really establishes his work in straight exegesis, with an eye towards the theological implications and structure of 1 Corinthians 12-14.

yours,
~Jacob

I lean to the cessationist view but currently attend a Bible study with people that are pentecostal. Many times they have "spoken in tounges" and "healed" people and never does it match the example set forth by scripture. From much of the examples I have seen the "sign" gifts today are just emotional fits.

Originally Posted by Dr. Bob Gonzales

Originally Posted by William Price

Would a cessationist view also include the ending of miracles and the supernatural in total?

William,

Good question. As Jim notes, the question of ongoing miracles is much broader than the question of ongoing prophecy (whether in native or foreign tongue). My study will focus on the latter. My present answer to your question, however, would be "no." Indeed, one of the greatest of all miracles recorded in the Bible is the supernatural transformation of a spiritually dead sinner into a spiritually alive saint. Moreover, there are other kinds of miracles as, for example, God healing a sick person in such a way that defies a medical explanation. On the other hand, Scripture seems to highlight a special genre of miracle, i.e., a might redemptive typological act of God. Examples would include the Flood-Judgment, the Exodus, the Conquest of Canaan, the Incarnation, the Resurrection of Christ, and the Day of Pentecost. I believe this type of miracle culminated in Christ's first coming (and the events surrounding it). I also believe this type of miracle will occur again when Christ returns. In the meantime, however, I don't believe the Scriptures encourage us to look for ongoing typological-kind of miracles. The miracle of Christ's present binding of the strong man (i.e., Satan), the worldwide spread of the gospel, and the conversion of sinners from every tribe, people and tongue should be miracle enough for us until Christ returns. That's my present position.

Your servant,

Thank you for your kind response.

I recently came out of a Oneness pentecostal background, and I am still debating the tongues issue. I have spoken in tongues myself, but have not since leaving that group. In fact, this has been a burning question in my mind as well.

Also, I do wholly agree with the supernatural continuance of the miraculous. I really appreciate this forum for allowing this former minister of deception whom God saved and is now striving to know truth to ask questions and get rock solid biblical answers.

Soli Deo Gloria!

Brothers,

In Part 1 of this series, we noted that many believers today debate the question of whether God is continuing to confer on the NT church the the gifts of prophecy and tongues. Some say, “Yes” (continuationists). Others respond, “No” (cessationists). And a third group cautiously answer, “Maybe” (open-but-cautious). I’d like to provide an argument for the cessation of tongues and prophecy in the form of a syllogism:

Major Premise: All divinely authoritative special revelation (canonical) has been completed and has, therefore, ceased.
Minor Premise: NT prophecy and tongues are forms of divinely authoritative (canonical) special revelation.
Conclusion: Therefore, tongues and prophecy have ceased.

In this segment of our series, we’ll begin to develop the major premise, namely, that all divinely authoritative special revelation (canonical) has been completed and has, therefore, ceased. First, we’ll have to identity and establish the boundaries of that corpora of inspired literature known as the Old Testament. Along the way, we’ll briefly lists some reasons why we don’t include the Jewish apocryphal books as part of the Old Testament canon. Then, in Part 3, we’ll identify the NT canon. The NT canon brings special redemptive revelation to its final form and historical goal, we’ll argue in Part 4, which will establish our first major premise.

The Cessation of Special Revelation: A Humble Argument for the Cessation of Prophecy and Tongues, Part 2

Enjoy!

Your servant,