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Pneumatology Discussions about the Holy Spirit, spiritual gifts and charismatic issues

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Old 07-13-2007, 05:41 PM
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Cessationism

Cessationism by Willem Berends

Interesting article:

Quote:
Yet there are some difficult questions associated with the weak cessationist position. The first is: which gifts are to be included among the extraordinary and miraculous gifts which have ceased? There is no consensus on the identity of the miraculous gifts. In the previous article we noted that some regarded the gift of prophecy as extraordinary, while others regarded it as a gift that can be found among preachers who excel in Bible interpretation and application.33 Those who give the first interpretation tend to list prophecy with the gifts that have ceased, while those who follow the second interpretation list it with the Spirit's permanent gifts to the church.

A second question concerns the time of the cessation of miraculous gifts. John Calvin, William Perkins and George Gillespie, who link the miraculous gifts with the earliest period of the Church's development, are open to the possibility of a re-occurrence of extraordinary offices and their gifts in extraordinary circumstances. For them the cessation of these gifts meant that they had ceased to function as an ordinary part of church life, not that they had ceased altogether. But Warfield's argument that these gifts were linked with the apostolic office and therefore ceased with the disappearance of this office is consistent with both history and Scripture. Perhaps the insights of both viewpoints can be combined in the recognition that the gift allowing some of God's people to do extraordinary works for God at their will has disappeared, but that God may still use human agents to do wondrous works in extraordinary circumstances.
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Old 07-13-2007, 06:11 PM
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See this thread and this post re Scottish Prophets irt Gillespie and others.
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When heresy rises in an evangelical body, it is never frank and open. It always begins by skulking, and assuming a disguise. Its advocates, when together, boast of great improvements, and congratulate one another on having gone greatly beyond the ‘old dead orthodoxy,’ and on having left behind many of its antiquated errors: but when taxed with deviations from the received faith, they complain of the unreasonableness of their accusers, as they ‘differ from it only in words.’ This has been the standing course of errorists ever since the apostolic age. Samuel Miller, Introductory essay, The Articles of the Synod of Dort (1841).

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Old 07-13-2007, 06:58 PM
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Interesting! Chris - I didn't have a great understanding of the Scottish aspect, thanks for pointing that out.
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Old 07-14-2007, 12:10 AM
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Cessationism doesn't make a bit of sense to me. Isn't 1 Corinthians 13 used in regard to it?
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Old 07-14-2007, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagmire View Post
Cessationism doesn't make a bit of sense to me. Isn't 1 Corinthians 13 used in regard to it?
Hi Davis,

If you get the chance, check out the book written by O. Palmer Robertson called The Final WordThe Final Word . It's not a long read (136 pgs.), and it presents the cessationist position well.
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Old 07-14-2007, 04:36 AM
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Give these a read

http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/CHAOS5.HTM
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/CHAOS7.HTM
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/CHAOS8.HTM
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/CHAOS9.HTM
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/CHAOS10.HTM
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Old 07-14-2007, 02:06 PM
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wow! VERY good stuff!
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Old 07-14-2007, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdlongmire View Post
wow! VERY good stuff!
John MacArthur, for all his faults, was a major influence on me very soon after my conversion (I was in the Plymouth Brethren for a while). These are sermons which he turned into chapters in Charismatic ChaosCharismatic Chaos . Also helpful is his http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product?item_no=07544&event=CFN.
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Old 07-14-2007, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaphtaliPress View Post
See this thread and this post re Scottish Prophets irt Gillespie and others.
Interesting thread. Puritan Sailor mentioned in that thread that the Vineyard Movt. 'added' to Scripture by use of prophetic tongues. Does anyone know any specifics about this? I know they have always taken a 'middle of the road' stance in the debate between all out pentacostalism and evangelicalism. In fact, John Wimber denounced (or at least distanced himself from) the Toronto 'Blessing'.
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Old 07-14-2007, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagmire View Post
Cessationism doesn't make a bit of sense to me. Isn't 1 Corinthians 13 used in regard to it?
I would recommend the following - for your prayerful meditation

1

2 On Fanaticism

33 - For a readable biography
B B Warfield (not for the faint-hearted) - Counterfeit Miracles
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Old 07-14-2007, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV1611 View Post
John MacArthur, for all his faults, was a major influence on me very soon after my conversion
Why did you add these words? Is that a cockney thing?
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Old 07-15-2007, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by KMK View Post
Why did you add these words?
He is a dispensationalist,
He denies women need to be covered as per 1 Corinthians 11,
He holds a Baptist view of the sacraments.
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