On another board, cessationism (how would you respond?)

[Romans922]

3. It was essential that they should be infallibly inspired, and thus protected against error and mistake in their public teaching, whether by word or by writing (John 14:26; 16:13; 1 Thess. 2:13; Deut. 18:20).

Well, I suppose that the Spirit doesn't speak to us anymore. Pity. The Helper was only for the Apostles, and now He's left us.

Also, when the Apostles spoke with the authority of the Spirit, they were infallible -- not all the time. Look at Peter, who had to be rebuked by Paul for succumbing to peer pressure.

I wrote this a couple of pages ago, with no response:

" 'In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
I will show wonders in the heaven above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
he sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.'

Note how it says "the last days." That's the entire time from Jesus' first coming to His second coming(judging by Scripture). It does NOT say "in the apostolic age . . . your sons and daughters will prophecy."

[Edited on 6-27-2005 by Romans922]

[Romans922]

All that this Ephesians passage (Eph. 2:20; 3:2-6) succeeds in doing is saying that the apostles are building upon the revelation that the Old Testament (and New Testament) prophets had received. This doesn't mean that because all the original apostles have died out, and prophecy as it was known in the Old Testament has passed on, that there has been a cessation of tongues and healing as well. Prophecy has shifted now to being the gift of interpreting the Scriptures properly, rather than receiving new revelation of God's Word. Apostleship hasn't shifted at all; they're called "missionaries" today. They still testify to the death and resurrection of Christ, and preach the Word where it has yet to be heard.

[Puritan Sailor]

First, did you have the other persons permission to post their comments here? It is our policy here not to post stuff from other Boards without their permission in order to avoid any Board "wars" and misrepresent anyone.

Second, I would refer you to O. Palmer Robertson's The Final Word . He handles this suject, including the objection you are confronting, masterfully. I think it is the best book I have read on the subject since exiting the charasmatic movement myself.

[Edited on 6-27-2005 by puritansailor]

[Romans922]

ah, i didnt ask, but i was just seeking counsel on how a person would respond to such a thing.

[WrittenFromUtopia]

Note how it says "the last days." That's the entire time from Jesus' first coming to His second coming(judging by Scripture).

Well there's the problem right there. The "last days" have come and gone, along with the "end of the age," judging by Scripture:

Matt 10:22 and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Matt 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. 28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."�

Matt 26:64 Jesus said to him, "œYou have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven."�

John 21:21 When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, "œLord, what about this man [John]?"� 22 Jesus said to him, "œIf it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow me!"�

Rom 13:11 Besides this you know the time, that the hour has come for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed.

Rom 13:12 The night is far gone; the day is at hand. So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light.

Rom 16:20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

1 Cor 7:29 This is what I mean, brothers: the appointed time has grown very short. From now on, let those who have wives live as though they had none,

1 Cor 7:31 and those who deal with the world as though they had no dealings with it. For the present form of this world is passing away.

1 Cor 10:11 Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come.

2 Thes 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.

Phil 4:5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand;

Heb 9:26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Heb 10:25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.

Heb 10:37 For, "œYet a little while, and the coming one will come and will not delay;

Jas 5:7 Be patient, therefore, brothers, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, being patient about it, until it receives the early and the late rains.

Jas 5:8 You also, be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.

Jas 5:9 Do not grumble against one another, brothers, so that you may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing at the door.

1 Pet 1:20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for your sake,

1 Pet 4:7 The end of all things is at hand; therefore be self-controlled and sober-minded for the sake of your prayers.

1 John 2:18 Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.

Rev 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

Rev 3:10 Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.

Rev 3:11 I am coming soon. Hold fast what you have, so that no one may seize your crown.

Rev 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.

Rev 22:10 And he said to me, "œDo not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.

Rev 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, "œSurely I am coming soon."� Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!

[Puritan Sailor]

Originally posted by Romans922
ah, i didnt ask, but i was just seeking counsel on how a person would respond to such a thing.

The problem with his response is a failure to understand the significance of the relationship between revelation and redemption. Hebrews 2 is key. Christ is the final revelation. There is no more revelation to look forward to but the second coming and the end of this present evil age. The apostles wrote down all that we needed to know about Christ, and the prophetic gifts functioned until their testmony was written down. To argue that divine revelation still takes place is to argue that there is still more that God must reveal for our redemption, the Scriptures are incomplete, and that Christ's revelation was not the final word on redemption. This is the underlying problem with those who argue for charasmatic gifts today. Christ and His testimony are insufficient for holy living. They need something more.