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Natural Revelation and God's Creation Discussions regarding science and creation
The heavens declare the glory of God (Ps. 19:1)

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God.

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View Poll Results: What do you think about global warming???
Don’t really care about it. 10 10.10%
Not sure there is a clear science on the topic. 21 21.21%
I’m a radical and I’m rationing toilet paper to one sleeve per day! 2 2.02%
Global warming is real but is most likely caused by sun flares. 7 7.07%
Global warming is a complete farce and is only caused by natural conditions. 41 41.41%
I like my V8 truck! 14 14.14%
We should be good stewards of the earth and exercise dominion over creation. 60 60.61%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 99. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-22-2009, 11:50 AM
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What do you think about global warming?


Inspired by this article.


What do you think about global warming?
The problem I have with the global warming issue is it always seems to have a left of left bent and I should apologize for being a person.
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Old 04-22-2009, 11:52 AM
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Bad science.
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Old 04-22-2009, 11:56 AM
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At best I believe the evidence for man made global warming is inconclusive. When the scientific community engages in smear tactics against opposing views, as is done with the evolution debate, they lose all cedibility IMHO.
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:03 PM
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Global warming is real. I know because it's warmer today than it was two weeks ago.

...but I'm personally convinced that it has its root in mainly natural causes. While our actions do have an effect on the environment, I think that natural disasters like volcanos do a whole lot more than we do.
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:25 PM
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I think climate change is almost certainly real, very possibly influenced by man, and it's totally unknown whether we can realistically do anything to reverse it. Our resources would be much better spent adapting.
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:31 PM
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mico vs. macro

We should, of course be good stewards of what God has given us.

We do have some effect on our local environment on a mico level ie. smog in big cities, etc. However since one good volcano can produce more "pollution" than man in all of history, I doubt we have too much effect on God's design.
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:33 PM
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I voted 5 and 7.
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:35 PM
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We should be good stewards but I think it is just a natural pattern. Even the atheist scientists state emphatically that even if there is "global warming" there will still be another ice age.

Besides, if we are all evolving won't better people just rise up who can live in these hot environments?
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:57 PM
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Who knows what the optimum temperature is for the earth?
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRoper View Post
I think climate change is almost certainly real, very possibly influenced by man, and it's totally unknown whether we can realistically do anything to reverse it. Our resources would be much better spent adapting.
That's right. We should remember that it's not "global warming" anymore . . . it's "climate change." That leaves enough room just in case things start cooling off again.
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:22 PM
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My only consistently recurring thought on the subject:

When they outlaw global warming only outlaws will be warm.
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:32 PM
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The scientific evidence supporting "man made" global warming seems iffy at best to me. I tend to trust in empirical evidence, that is the "Word". My exegesis would conclude that whenever famine, hail, drought, plagues, earthquakes etc. came upon the earth is that it had something to do with God's anger towards sin. The only solution that man could affect these conditions was to repent and to return to the Lord and His ways. No where can I find in the Scriptures does it state that when we are in this predicament are we to extinguish burnt offerings or to replace our menstrual cloths or diapers with recycled papyrus. Nor do I see a precedent for placing quotas on herds of methane gas producing oxen and sheep to appease God's wrath. Earth Day is the environmentalists day of atonement and the smart car is their phylactery.

Just my not so humble opinion.

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptable God into an image made like to corruptable man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts and creeping things...who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen"
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:34 PM
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The apex of narcissism.

If they want people to be 'green', they should look at Puritan farmers. Stewardship was very important to them and excess was a sin.
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:35 PM
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i think it proves how bad historical science is (evolution)
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victorbravo View Post
My only consistently recurring thought on the subject:

When they outlaw global warming only outlaws will be warm.
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:43 PM
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Man caused Global Warming, or Climate Change as they have taken to calling it, is a ploy to subjugate men and nations to increasing government and international control. There is a reason that Communists almost as a movement shifted to the 'green' camp with the fall of the Soviet Union.

Global warming and cooling does happen, but it is of natural occurrence. To think that puny man can do such damage to the earth is laughable. All of the green house gases introduced into the atmosphere since the Industrial Revolution do not even rate to the amount spewed out by a moderate volcanic eruption.
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:47 PM
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I think there is slight of hand going on and mostly the talk of temp control
is more about control than it is about temperature.

I think carbon dioxide is plant food. Plant something.

I have found some interesting comments to consider here:

American Thinker: UFOs and AGW
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:57 PM
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global warming/ozone holes/coming ice age/radon gas

Advancing years (and a subscription to Time in the 70's) does allow for some perspective on some things. Having tinkered in "hard science" a while ago, sometimes its hard for non-tinkerers to see how much non-scientific agenda-making goes into some of these passing future shock like catastrophes. Today's less than universal global warming bandwagon riding has huge financial, social, and political underpinnings--for example, if you are a hard working climate scientist who is trying to do research that happens to fly in the face of GW hysteria, good luck getting grant support, publication, or an academic appointment anywhere; likewise, media folks would hardly have your phone number on speed dial, and agenda-driven governmental "task forces" would ignore your opinions in favor of those that go well with the rest of the herd. The bottom line as I try to read it is that 1) there is no proof that any "global warming" really occurs apart from periodic cycles of warming and cooling that have apparently occurred for LONG periods of time; 2) since warming/cooling have occurred before the industrial revolution and since, man's contribution is minimal (compared, say, to Mt St. Helens). 3) there are likely many aspects of proper "stewardship of the land" for which we are responsible and accountable to God, which are real and somewhat neglected by many of us ("us" in the generic human as well as Christian sense)
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:14 PM
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Global warming is real. I know because it's warmer today than it was two weeks ago.
Ah, but it's also cooler...down under, that is.
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyler View Post
Global warming is real. I know because it's warmer today than it was two weeks ago.
Ah, but it's also cooler...down under, that is.
Yeah, but American politics isn't concerned with the state of affairs Down Under.
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Old 04-22-2009, 03:27 PM
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I believe God made this planet to be "self healing" . The environment adjusts as temperature cycles up and down to balance itself. I think the contrast between summer and winter show this a little. If it didn't heal, all of the volcanic eruptions would have either frozen us out or choked us by now. All of the forest fires caused by lightning would have destroyed most of the land by now and blackened the sky. Al Gore and company have decided that God needs their help governing His creation, I say no.
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Old 04-22-2009, 04:13 PM
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None of the options exactly matched my view, but I chose 2, 3 and 7 to give an overall indication of my opinions.
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Old 04-22-2009, 04:19 PM
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Al Gore keeps getting hotter under the collar
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Old 04-22-2009, 04:33 PM
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Well globa warming is a farce but we should also be good stewards, both those are true
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Old 04-22-2009, 04:35 PM
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Global warming? Yes, but on God's timetable!
2 Peter 3:10 I love the part about the 'big noise'!


10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
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Old 04-22-2009, 05:29 PM
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The earth cycles like this....it's nature doing what nature does.
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Old 04-22-2009, 07:10 PM
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Some good and not so good science on both sides. I voted 1, 2 and 7.
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Old 04-22-2009, 07:21 PM
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Bad science. The tough part is that being a good steward of the earth has been hijacked by nut cases. Every time I go to recycle, I am surrounded by people who think I worship the sun and not the SON!

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Old 04-22-2009, 07:35 PM
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Having said that, newest science shows we are in a 20 year cooling and then there may be a warming after that.
I see these as normal cycles God is in control of. The rest is junk science to make a $$ on.
The only warming people need to be concerned about is the eternal warming.
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Old 04-22-2009, 08:27 PM
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Of course I am sure the Fall had nothing to do with the instability of the Earth.
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Old 04-23-2009, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRoper View Post
I think climate change is almost certainly real, very possibly influenced by man, and it's totally unknown whether we can realistically do anything to reverse it. Our resources would be much better spent adapting.
That's right. We should remember that it's not "global warming" anymore . . . it's "climate change." That leaves enough room just in case things start cooling off again.
I think it's used because while the average global temperatures will increase, some regions may experience a colder climate.

Does anyone have a source for the claim that a single volcano emits more greenhouse gases than all of man's contribution? I'm pretty sure that the evidence is that man's contribution is several orders of magnitude higher than all volcanic activity.
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Old 04-23-2009, 02:14 PM
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I voted 5 and 7.
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Old 04-23-2009, 02:37 PM
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Does anyone have a source for the claim that a single volcano emits more greenhouse gases than all of man's contribution? I'm pretty sure that the evidence is that man's contribution is several orders of magnitude higher than all volcanic activity.
US Geological Survey says the opposite:

Quote:
Comparison of CO2 emissions from volcanoes vs. human activities.
Scientists have calculated that volcanoes emit between about 130-230 million tonnes (145-255 million tons) of CO2 into the atmosphere every year (Gerlach, 1999, 1991). This estimate includes both subaerial and submarine volcanoes, about in equal amounts. Emissions of CO2 by human activities, including fossil fuel burning, cement production, and gas flaring, amount to about 27 billion tonnes per year (30 billion tons) [ ( Marland, et al., 2006) - The reference gives the amount of released carbon (C), rather than CO2, through 2003.]. Human activities release more than 130 times the amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes--the equivalent of more than 8,000 additional volcanoes like Kilauea (Kilauea emits about 3.3 million tonnes/year)! (Gerlach et. al., 2002)
(Emphasis added)

Volcanic Gases and Their Effects


Click tab labeled “Effects”
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Old 04-23-2009, 02:56 PM
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I answered #2 and #7
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Old 04-23-2009, 03:01 PM
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FOXNews.com - Do Fat People Cause Global Warming? - Science News | Science & Technology | Technology News

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...rs-427843.html
Cow 'emissions' cause global warming

And this is where all of this BULLBUTTER is leading:
http://www.carbontax.org/blogarchive...lobal-co2-tax/
Global carbon tax
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2009, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victorbravo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SRoper View Post
Does anyone have a source for the claim that a single volcano emits more greenhouse gases than all of man's contribution? I'm pretty sure that the evidence is that man's contribution is several orders of magnitude higher than all volcanic activity.
US Geological Survey says the opposite:

Quote:
Comparison of CO2 emissions from volcanoes vs. human activities.
Scientists have calculated that volcanoes emit between about 130-230 million tonnes (145-255 million tons) of CO2 into the atmosphere every year (Gerlach, 1999, 1991). This estimate includes both subaerial and submarine volcanoes, about in equal amounts. Emissions of CO2 by human activities, including fossil fuel burning, cement production, and gas flaring, amount to about 27 billion tonnes per year (30 billion tons) [ ( Marland, et al., 2006) - The reference gives the amount of released carbon (C), rather than CO2, through 2003.]. Human activities release more than 130 times the amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes--the equivalent of more than 8,000 additional volcanoes like Kilauea (Kilauea emits about 3.3 million tonnes/year)! (Gerlach et. al., 2002)
(Emphasis added)

Volcanic Gases and Their Effects


Click tab labeled “Effects”
I'll have to see if I can find the data that I read last year about this. They were not talking about the regular emissions of volcanoes when comparing them to human output, but eruptions. I also seem to recall them demonstrating some rather creative mathematics used by various government agencies in the natural creation of C and CO2 when comparing it to human activity creation. Basically, they did not used the same parameters in analysis. I'll have to find it. . .
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2009, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard King View Post
I think there is slight of hand going on and mostly the talk of temp control
is more about control than it is about temperature.

American Thinker: UFOs and AGW
This is an excellent point. They have moved on from telling us what cars to drive to what foods we can eat. We had "low carbon diet" day yesterday at work.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2009, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A guy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard King View Post
I think there is slight of hand going on and mostly the talk of temp control
is more about control than it is about temperature.

American Thinker: UFOs and AGW
This is an excellent point. They have moved on from telling us what cars to drive to what foods we can eat. We had "low carbon diet" day yesterday at work.
What no lump charcoal appetizers?! Don't they know it is good for the digestion?
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2009, 03:36 PM
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Insane!
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:59 PM
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454 bigblock 1-ton Chevy. If it's warmer, turn on the A/C.
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