The OPC report on Creation

Puritan Sailor · #1 (**permalink**) 12-31-2004, 09:59 PM

Here's a link to the OPC report on creation from the last GA. It's finally available online to those who are interested.

http://www.opc.org/GA/CreationReport.pdf

street preacher · #2 (**permalink**) 01-01-2005, 10:00 AM

I have printed it out and am now reading it. Thanks.

Puritan Sailor · #3 (**permalink**) 01-01-2005, 04:08 PM

Oh yeah. Just so everyone is not surprised, it's a large document.

fredtgreco · #4 (**permalink**) 01-01-2005, 04:18 PM

894 KB to be precise

VirginiaHuguenot · #5 (**permalink**) 01-02-2005, 10:36 AM

I don't have time to read the whole thing, but can anyone summarize the highlights? Any concerns? Any strong points?

Puritan Sailor · #6 (**permalink**) 01-02-2005, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
I don't have time to read the whole thing, but can anyone summarize the highlights? Any concerns? Any strong points?

It's basically a review and critique of all the non-evolutionist views of creation spreading in reformed circles, with some consideration as to how they can fit in the WCF. They don't pick any favorites, at least not deliberately.

fredtgreco · #7 (**permalink**) 01-02-2005, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by puritansailor

Quote:

Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
I don't have time to read the whole thing, but can anyone summarize the highlights? Any concerns? Any strong points?

It's basically a review and critique of all the non-evolutionist views of creation spreading in reformed circles, with some consideration as to how they can fit in the WCF. They don't pick any favorites, at least not deliberately.

Any idea how it compares to the PCA report of 2002 (I think) ?

Joshua · #8 (**permalink**) 01-02-2005, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
I don't have time to read the whole thing, but can anyone summarize the highlights? Any concerns? Any strong points?

Sheesh...such laziness.

BTW, I'd like a summary as well! :P

Puritan Sailor · #9 (**permalink**) 01-02-2005, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fredtgreco

Quote:

Originally posted by puritansailor

Quote:

Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
I don't have time to read the whole thing, but can anyone summarize the highlights? Any concerns? Any strong points?

It's basically a review and critique of all the non-evolutionist views of creation spreading in reformed circles, with some consideration as to how they can fit in the WCF. They don't pick any favorites, at least not deliberately.

Any idea how it compares to the PCA report of 2002 (I think) ?

I haven't read through the entire report yet, and I didn't know about the PCA report. What conclusions did the PCA come to?

InSixDays · #10 (**permalink**) 01-05-2005, 09:05 PM

The PCA accepted four views of creation, the historical, framework, analogical, and day-age views.

http://www.pcanet.org/admin/2001gene...m#OVERTURE%207 See Overture 7.

The historical view, however, had so much support that when the topic comes up again, it will likely be adopted as the biblical view. I'd give you a link to an analysis of it, but unfortunately, the link appears to be broken.

fredtgreco · #11 (**permalink**) 01-05-2005, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by InSixDays
The PCA accepted four views of creation, the historical, framework, analogical, and day-age views.

http://www.pcanet.org/admin/2001gene...m#OVERTURE%207 See Overture 7.

The historical view, however, had so much support that when the topic comes up again, it will likely be adopted as the biblical view. I'd give you a link to an analysis of it, but unfortunately, the link appears to be broken.

As the Co-Author of the minority report that failed in 2002, don't bet on it.

Puritan Sailor · #12 (**permalink**) 01-05-2005, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fredtgreco

Quote:

Originally posted by InSixDays
The PCA accepted four views of creation, the historical, framework, analogical, and day-age views.

http://www.pcanet.org/admin/2001gene...m#OVERTURE%207 See Overture 7.

The historical view, however, had so much support that when the topic comes up again, it will likely be adopted as the biblical view. I'd give you a link to an analysis of it, but unfortunately, the link appears to be broken.

As the Co-Author of the minority report that failed in 2002, don't bet on it.

Is there a move then to edit the WCF on that one point then to tolerate other views in the PCA? I know in the OPC instead ammending the WCF they are instead trying to see what views "fit with the wording" which to me is completely dishonest.

InSixDays · #13 (**permalink**) 01-05-2005, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fredtgreco
As the Co-Author of the minority report that failed in 2002, don't bet on it.

Actually, as far as I was aware (unfortunately my info is at the broken link) every time the issue has come up the historical view has gained more support. My point was that if the trend continues, eventually it will be adopted.

Quote:

Originally posted by puritansailor
Is there a move then to edit the WCF on that one point then to tolerate other views in the PCA? I know in the OPC instead ammending the WCF they are instead trying to see what views "fit with the wording" which to me is completely dishonest.

I'm not aware of any attempts to edit the WCF. I think they're trying to see what "fits with the wording." Though I fail to see how anything else can fit with "in the space of six days." You'd have to do some intense interpretive dance and gymnastics to come to any conclusion other than "in the space of six days." :P At least they didn't adopt theistic evolution as one of the choices.

[Edited on 1-6-2005 by InSixDays]

fredtgreco · #14 (**permalink**) 01-05-2005, 11:51 PM

Here's the right link:
http://www.pcanet.org/admin/2001gene...m#OVERTURE%207

It is true that the Literal Day view has significant support among Ruling Elders at the GA level, but not the Teaching Elders.

And I assure you, this is going nowhere in the PCA. The overture you refer to was defeated both in Bills and Overtures Committee (I was there) and when Mark Buckner (RE at Covenant PCA in TN) drafted a minority report, we were pretty soundly defeated by about 60/40. The next year, the Creation overture was defeated in about 5 minutes 70/30. No one wants to debate this anymore. It is going nowhere.

I'm sorry to say that, but that is how it is.

pastorway · #15 (**permalink**) 01-05-2005, 11:56 PM

Back to the original question, "Did God really say.....?"

JWJ · #16 (**permalink**) 01-06-2005, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pastorway
Back to the original question, "Did God really say.....?"

This Definitely is the point!

Look at what the report says:

226What does subscription not require? Officers are not required to subscribe to the very words of our 227
standards, but rather must be in essential agreement with each doctrine. This is important to remember 228
especially when considering the words, "œin the space of six days." The meaning of these words is not 229
exhausted merely by observing that "œsix days are six days," because this is begging the question. 230
Instead, we believe that the doctrine of six-day creation can be preserved through different permissible 231
understandings of the word, "œday."

Do I understand this correctly? Is not the word and intent of lines 228 and 229 itself begging the question, not to mention very dangerous! What about the words "œpermissible understandings" found in 230 & 231. Does not this kind of subjective ambiguity, openness, and tolerance for accepting a wide range of different exegesis, hermeneutics, and epistemologies (for both Scripture and sub-standards) leave the door open for other doctrines?

Granted the doctrine of creation, especially on this particular point of contention, may not be critical for a person´s salvation (though depending on what view one adopts certainly can lead to an inconsistency and short coming in one's overall theology). The bone of contention I have is the inconsistency and intentional vagueness of the OPC handling the sub- standards (WCF) and the standard (Scripture).

In ten years will an OPC report say..."Instead, we believe that the doctrine of justification can be preserved through different permissible understandings of the word, 'justification'."?

Jim

Puritan Sailor · #17 (**permalink**) 01-06-2005, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JWJ
In ten years will an OPC report say..."Instead, we believe that the doctrine of justification can be preserved through different permissible understandings of the word, 'justification'."?

We are heading that way brother. That's what the justification overtures last year were all about. Hopefully the commitee will get a spine and take a solid stand.

Irishcat922 · #18 (**permalink**) 01-06-2005, 10:50 AM