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Natural Revelation and God's Creation discuss The OPC report on Creation in the Theology forums; Here's a link to the OPC report on creation from the last GA. It's finally available online to those who are interested. http://www.opc.org/GA/CreationReport.pdf...

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    Puritan Sailor's Avatar
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    The OPC report on Creation

    Here's a link to the OPC report on creation from the last GA. It's finally available online to those who are interested.

    http://www.opc.org/GA/CreationReport.pdf
    Patrick
    MDiv, RTS Jackson
    Pastor, Grace Presbyterian Church (OPC), Lisbon, NY

    "He does well, that discourses of Christ; but he does infinitely better, that by experimental knowledge, feeds and lives on Christ." Thomas Brooks.
    "Let us not please ourselves that we have deep understandings, but let us shew our understandings by our practice." Richard Sibbes

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    street preacher is offline. Inactive User
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    I have printed it out and am now reading it. Thanks.
    Steve W
    Presbyterian Reformed Church of Northern Virginia (Attending)
    "All that the Father gives me will come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will never cast out." John 6:37

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    Oh yeah. Just so everyone is not surprised, it's a large document.
    Patrick
    MDiv, RTS Jackson
    Pastor, Grace Presbyterian Church (OPC), Lisbon, NY

    "He does well, that discourses of Christ; but he does infinitely better, that by experimental knowledge, feeds and lives on Christ." Thomas Brooks.
    "Let us not please ourselves that we have deep understandings, but let us shew our understandings by our practice." Richard Sibbes

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    VirginiaHuguenot is offline. Puritanboard Librarian
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    I don't have time to read the whole thing, but can anyone summarize the highlights? Any concerns? Any strong points?
    Andrew

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    Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
    I don't have time to read the whole thing, but can anyone summarize the highlights? Any concerns? Any strong points?
    It's basically a review and critique of all the non-evolutionist views of creation spreading in reformed circles, with some consideration as to how they can fit in the WCF. They don't pick any favorites, at least not deliberately.
    Patrick
    MDiv, RTS Jackson
    Pastor, Grace Presbyterian Church (OPC), Lisbon, NY

    "He does well, that discourses of Christ; but he does infinitely better, that by experimental knowledge, feeds and lives on Christ." Thomas Brooks.
    "Let us not please ourselves that we have deep understandings, but let us shew our understandings by our practice." Richard Sibbes

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    Originally posted by puritansailor
    Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
    I don't have time to read the whole thing, but can anyone summarize the highlights? Any concerns? Any strong points?
    It's basically a review and critique of all the non-evolutionist views of creation spreading in reformed circles, with some consideration as to how they can fit in the WCF. They don't pick any favorites, at least not deliberately.
    Any idea how it compares to the PCA report of 2002 (I think) ?
    Fred Greco
    Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA (Katy, TX)
    Christ Church Blog

    "The heart is the main thing in true religion...It is the hinge and turning-point in the condition of man's soul. If the heart is alive to God and quickened by the Spirit, the man is a living Christian. If the heart is dead and has not the Spirit, the man is dead before God." (J.C. Ryle)

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    Joshua is offline. _
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    Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
    I don't have time to read the whole thing, but can anyone summarize the highlights? Any concerns? Any strong points?
    Sheesh...such laziness.

    BTW, I'd like a summary as well! :P
    Josh
    CCRPC, RPCGA
    For God will save Zion, and will build the cities of Judah: that they may dwell there, and have it in
    possession. The seed also of his servants shall inherit it: and they that love his name shall dwell
    therein.- Ps. 69

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    Originally posted by fredtgreco
    Originally posted by puritansailor
    Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
    I don't have time to read the whole thing, but can anyone summarize the highlights? Any concerns? Any strong points?
    It's basically a review and critique of all the non-evolutionist views of creation spreading in reformed circles, with some consideration as to how they can fit in the WCF. They don't pick any favorites, at least not deliberately.
    Any idea how it compares to the PCA report of 2002 (I think) ?
    I haven't read through the entire report yet, and I didn't know about the PCA report. What conclusions did the PCA come to?
    Patrick
    MDiv, RTS Jackson
    Pastor, Grace Presbyterian Church (OPC), Lisbon, NY

    "He does well, that discourses of Christ; but he does infinitely better, that by experimental knowledge, feeds and lives on Christ." Thomas Brooks.
    "Let us not please ourselves that we have deep understandings, but let us shew our understandings by our practice." Richard Sibbes

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    The PCA accepted four views of creation, the historical, framework, analogical, and day-age views.

    http://www.pcanet.org/admin/2001gene...m#OVERTURE%207 See Overture 7.

    The historical view, however, had so much support that when the topic comes up again, it will likely be adopted as the biblical view. I'd give you a link to an analysis of it, but unfortunately, the link appears to be broken.
    Adam T. Ross
    Covenant Presbyterian Church, PCA, (Parkersburg, WV)
    Marietta College, student, Marietta, Ohio

    My Blogs: [url]http://www.theologicaltruths.blogspot.com[/url]
    [url]http://www.creationtruths.blogspot.com[/url]

    Website: [url]http://www.creationtruths.com[/url]

    "A God who ‘created’ by evolution is, for all practical purposes, indistinguishable from no God at all."--Dr. Jonathan Sarfati, Refuting Evolution, 1999, pg. 22

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    Originally posted by InSixDays
    The PCA accepted four views of creation, the historical, framework, analogical, and day-age views.

    http://www.pcanet.org/admin/2001gene...m#OVERTURE%207 See Overture 7.

    The historical view, however, had so much support that when the topic comes up again, it will likely be adopted as the biblical view. I'd give you a link to an analysis of it, but unfortunately, the link appears to be broken.
    As the Co-Author of the minority report that failed in 2002, don't bet on it.
    Fred Greco
    Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA (Katy, TX)
    Christ Church Blog

    "The heart is the main thing in true religion...It is the hinge and turning-point in the condition of man's soul. If the heart is alive to God and quickened by the Spirit, the man is a living Christian. If the heart is dead and has not the Spirit, the man is dead before God." (J.C. Ryle)

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    Originally posted by fredtgreco
    Originally posted by InSixDays
    The PCA accepted four views of creation, the historical, framework, analogical, and day-age views.

    http://www.pcanet.org/admin/2001gene...m#OVERTURE%207 See Overture 7.

    The historical view, however, had so much support that when the topic comes up again, it will likely be adopted as the biblical view. I'd give you a link to an analysis of it, but unfortunately, the link appears to be broken.
    As the Co-Author of the minority report that failed in 2002, don't bet on it.
    Is there a move then to edit the WCF on that one point then to tolerate other views in the PCA? I know in the OPC instead ammending the WCF they are instead trying to see what views "fit with the wording" which to me is completely dishonest.
    Patrick
    MDiv, RTS Jackson
    Pastor, Grace Presbyterian Church (OPC), Lisbon, NY

    "He does well, that discourses of Christ; but he does infinitely better, that by experimental knowledge, feeds and lives on Christ." Thomas Brooks.
    "Let us not please ourselves that we have deep understandings, but let us shew our understandings by our practice." Richard Sibbes

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    InSixDays is offline. Inactive User
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    Originally posted by fredtgreco
    As the Co-Author of the minority report that failed in 2002, don't bet on it.
    Actually, as far as I was aware (unfortunately my info is at the broken link) every time the issue has come up the historical view has gained more support. My point was that if the trend continues, eventually it will be adopted.

    Originally posted by puritansailor
    Is there a move then to edit the WCF on that one point then to tolerate other views in the PCA? I know in the OPC instead ammending the WCF they are instead trying to see what views "fit with the wording" which to me is completely dishonest.
    I'm not aware of any attempts to edit the WCF. I think they're trying to see what "fits with the wording." Though I fail to see how anything else can fit with "in the space of six days." You'd have to do some intense interpretive dance and gymnastics to come to any conclusion other than "in the space of six days." :P At least they didn't adopt theistic evolution as one of the choices.

    [Edited on 1-6-2005 by InSixDays]
    Adam T. Ross
    Covenant Presbyterian Church, PCA, (Parkersburg, WV)
    Marietta College, student, Marietta, Ohio

    My Blogs: [url]http://www.theologicaltruths.blogspot.com[/url]
    [url]http://www.creationtruths.blogspot.com[/url]

    Website: [url]http://www.creationtruths.com[/url]

    "A God who ‘created’ by evolution is, for all practical purposes, indistinguishable from no God at all."--Dr. Jonathan Sarfati, Refuting Evolution, 1999, pg. 22

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    fredtgreco's Avatar
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    Here's the right link:
    http://www.pcanet.org/admin/2001gene...m#OVERTURE%207

    It is true that the Literal Day view has significant support among Ruling Elders at the GA level, but not the Teaching Elders.

    And I assure you, this is going nowhere in the PCA. The overture you refer to was defeated both in Bills and Overtures Committee (I was there) and when Mark Buckner (RE at Covenant PCA in TN) drafted a minority report, we were pretty soundly defeated by about 60/40. The next year, the Creation overture was defeated in about 5 minutes 70/30. No one wants to debate this anymore. It is going nowhere.

    I'm sorry to say that, but that is how it is.
    Fred Greco
    Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA (Katy, TX)
    Christ Church Blog

    "The heart is the main thing in true religion...It is the hinge and turning-point in the condition of man's soul. If the heart is alive to God and quickened by the Spirit, the man is a living Christian. If the heart is dead and has not the Spirit, the man is dead before God." (J.C. Ryle)

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    Back to the original question, "Did God really say.....?"


    Pastor Phillip M. Way
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    JWJ
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    Originally posted by pastorway
    Back to the original question, "Did God really say.....?"


    This Definitely is the point!

    Look at what the report says:

    226What does subscription not require? Officers are not required to subscribe to the very words of our 227
    standards, but rather must be in essential agreement with each doctrine. This is important to remember 228
    especially when considering the words, "in the space of six days." The meaning of these words is not 229
    exhausted merely by observing that "six days are six days," because this is begging the question. 230
    Instead, we believe that the doctrine of six-day creation can be preserved through different permissible 231
    understandings of the word, "day."

    Do I understand this correctly? Is not the word and intent of lines 228 and 229 itself begging the question, not to mention very dangerous! What about the words "permissible understandings" found in 230 & 231. Does not this kind of subjective ambiguity, openness, and tolerance for accepting a wide range of different exegesis, hermeneutics, and epistemologies (for both Scripture and sub-standards) leave the door open for other doctrines?

    Granted the doctrine of creation, especially on this particular point of contention, may not be critical for a persons salvation (though depending on what view one adopts certainly can lead to an inconsistency and short coming in one's overall theology). The bone of contention I have is the inconsistency and intentional vagueness of the OPC handling the sub- standards (WCF) and the standard (Scripture).

    In ten years will an OPC report say..."Instead, we believe that the doctrine of justification can be preserved through different permissible understandings of the word, 'justification'."?

    Jim
    Jim Jarantowski
    Minister of the Gospel
    (Currently residing at Covenant Presbyterian Church, New Berlin, WI)

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    Originally posted by JWJ
    In ten years will an OPC report say..."Instead, we believe that the doctrine of justification can be preserved through different permissible understandings of the word, 'justification'."?
    We are heading that way brother. That's what the justification overtures last year were all about. Hopefully the commitee will get a spine and take a solid stand.
    Patrick
    MDiv, RTS Jackson
    Pastor, Grace Presbyterian Church (OPC), Lisbon, NY

    "He does well, that discourses of Christ; but he does infinitely better, that by experimental knowledge, feeds and lives on Christ." Thomas Brooks.
    "Let us not please ourselves that we have deep understandings, but let us shew our understandings by our practice." Richard Sibbes

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    Sean Jones
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