With all the nonsense the media is portraying, I had to write "something." A short blurb:

The Pope is in Hell
by Dr. C. Matthew McMahon

[Edited on 4-4-2005 by webmaster]

__________________
C. Matthew McMahon, Ph.D. (Pot hole Digger)
John 5:39, "...search the Scriptures..."

Dr. C. Matthew McMahon.com, www.apuritansmind.com and www.puritanpublications.com
Member - Christ Presbyterian Church

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Heavy!

__________________
Christopher
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."
Ecclesiastes (12:13)
Church Affiliation: Faith Presbyterian OPC

Wow! Very well put, Matt!

It's interesting to note that even a Pope may have a place reserved for him in hell, according to Dante's Inferno.

__________________
Andrew

Nice to see someone has the courage to say it

__________________
How often have you wondered why Christ should set His heart upon such a one as you! --Octavius Winslow

Lon Wadkins (Jesup, Iowa)
New Covenant Fellowship, OPC
Independence, Iowa

[quote]Originally posted by webmaster
With all the nonsense the media is portraying, I had to write "something."[quote]


Although I do not normally sign on and post (my confessions don't qualify), I had to do so here in order to thank you. Clear. Precise. Accurate. Truthful. Your article is timely that I sent it to my wife and a couple of friends.

Thanks again!

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Pastor Kevin Guillory
St. Andrew Lutheran Church
Baltimore, MD

"I don't interpret Scripture. Scripture interprets itself. And in the process ... scripture interprets me."

Perhaps so, but personally, I wouldn't have the courage to say so, and not because I'm afraid of what others may think of me, but rather I'm afraid of what God will say of me. Because the truth is, only God knows the soul, and only God knows the heart of an individual. Whatever John Paul represented publically, only God knew his heart. And God is clearly not a denominational God.

I guess a lot depends on what one must believe in order to be saved. I was taught that it primarly consisted of the sum of the Nicine Creed:

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.


This I'm quite sure John Paul II would have ascribed to. Beyond that, the errors in his (and our life) are sins, but do we know that his sins are so much greater than our sins that they kept him out of heaven?




[Edited on 4-3-2005 by ChristianasJourney]

__________________
Janice
AKA Professor Plum :detective:

Following in the footsteps of Christiana and heading toward the Celestial City!

[b]"I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. " ~ Anon. [/b]

Catchy title and nice article.

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B.Howes
Framingham, MA

Hi Janice,

Just out of curiousity, did you read the article Matt posted?

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[i]Since it is incomparably the greatest dignity to be introduced into the company of angels, nay, to be made the associates of Christ, he who estimates this favor of God aright, will regard all other things as worthless. Then neither poverty, nor contempt, nor nakedness, nor famine nor thirst, will make his mind so anxious, but that he will sustain himself with this consolation. "Since the Lord has conferred on me the principal thing, it behooves me patiently to bear the loss of other things, which are inferior."[/i]--John Calvin

He went much further than the Nicene Creed. He believed Mary had to suffer with Christ to gain merit that he could then earn by obedience and good works.

He did not (as far as we know before he died) have faith in Christ alone for salvation. He was trusting, by his own words, in the work of Christ combined with and supplimented by the works of Mary, the Apostles, the saints, the Popes, and even works he himself did to gain merit before Christ.

This is not the gospel. And a fasle gospel cannot save.

Ephesians 2
8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not of works, lest anyone should boast.

1 Timothy 2
5For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus...

Yes, unless he repented and trusted Christ alone, he is in hell, as we ALL DESERVE TO BE but for the grace of God.

Phillip

__________________
Pastor Phillip M. Way
[url=http://www.timeintheword.org][color=blue] Maranatha Community Church of Central Texas[/color][/url]
A Reformed Baptist Congregation and Member Church of the
Fellowship of Independent Reformed Evangelicals [url=http://www.firefellowship.org][color=red](FIRE)[/color][/url]

Blogging at: [url=http://pastorway.blogspot.com/][color=blue][i]pastorway[/i][/color][/url]
Sermons Online at: [url=http://www.sermonaudio.com/timeintheword][color=blue]TIME in the Word Ministries[/color][/url]

When all souls are saved and all mourners comforted we may venture to discuss recondite theories, but not while graveyards are filling with those who know not God. -- CH Spurgeon

[b]The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
Luke 18:27[/b]

I think it is the Word of God that judges people and Popes. I think we can be pretty sure that the Pope subscribed to the beliefs of the Roman Church.

Good article. I think your call to pray for those in the Apostate church is spot on - we must plead with God that He would turn them from their wickedness and that He would call them out of their folly and into His family.

__________________
Matthew Glover
Reformed Presbyterian Church of Australia

__________________
Nathan Olaf Brandal

"Man is nothing: he hath a free will to go to hell, but none to go to heaven, till God worketh in him to will and to do his good pleasure"
GEORGE WHITEFIELD TO JOHN WESLEY

My Blog

Yes, I did read it.

And you're right, he probably isn't saved, near as we can tell.

I really shouldn't have responded.

I'm just troubled by how quick we are to send people to hell, when only God knows the true state of a soul, when God knows who he has choosen to redeem, and when salvation can occur up to the point of death. This "can they be saved" thought pattern is prevalent in other threads that talk about dispensationalists, pentecostals, Arminians, non-denoms, home churches, etc.

I don't know the pope, but I know that he was born with all the weaknesses of mankind--greed, envy, hypocrisy. What it looks like to us, is not always the way it is--Think of David comitting adultry, Naaman bowing before the idol, Jacob allowing his father-in-laws gods in his midst. Would a man who was pope and Christian, step down from Popery? Would a man acknowledge his changing views in a world of politics and religion? A world where his predecessor may have been murdered? Only God knows the heart. He will be judged for his lack of belief in God. If he is saved he will be judged for his failure to uphold the truth, and for leading people astray...but again, only God knows where his soul is.

Don't let me trouble anyone though, it's my nature to second guess, it's my nature to argue the other side. I should've been an attorney.

[Edited on 4-4-2005 by ChristianasJourney]

Matt, ya got guts there, my boy!! Now, if only you could format a "printer friendly" version of the article. Can you? I'd love to disseminate some copies....

Robin

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Robin
Christ Reformed Church, Anaheim, CA
Laity, under the care of Pastor, Kim Riddlebarger
Heidelberg, Ursinus, Belgic Confessions; Canons of Dordt
Revelation 14:2

I object Janice

[Edited on 4-4-2005 by lwadkins]

Janice,

I didn't mean to drag you out. I just wondered if you read the post. It would be different if Matt had posted a bunch of slanderous opinions. He did not. He relied on the Word of God to make a strong point that the rest of the world seems to have missed entirely.

I understand your feelings on condemning others. In this regard though I believe we have enough Scriptural warrant to long in all humility for the Lord to "kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming" (2 Thess. 2:8, ESV). We also share a heavy duty to pray for those lost in the apostate church and Matt did a wonderful job emphasizing that point.

Matt, that was a little too irenic don't ya think??? :P

__________________
Patrick
MDiv, RTS Jackson
Pastor, Grace Presbyterian Church (OPC), Lisbon, NY

"He does well, that discourses of Christ; but he does infinitely better, that by experimental knowledge, feeds and lives on Christ." Thomas Brooks.
"Let us not please ourselves that we have deep understandings, but let us shew our understandings by our practice." Richard Sibbes

I'm standing right next to Matthew.

Only thing, I posted my take on it on a non-Christian message board. :P

Time to Hate Kerry again...

__________________
K. Joel Gilliard, Husband of Danielle since 7/11/09 (I married up!)
Theologically Correct dot Com
http://www.theologicallycorrect.com
MEMBER: Wallace PCA in College Park, MD as of 10/18/09
The Blog: THINK! - Wrestlin' With Wordz -N- Ideaz
Now announcing: Life | Doctrine | Music - join the message board now! Site launch with streaming radio coming in 11/09!

The real question I have is did he supress the truth in unrighteousness and did he depend upon Christ alone for his salvation. I have to believe that it is yes to the first, and no to the second.

But I should say that I agree with Westminster when it condemns the See of Rome as the antichrist. As such, any man who considers himself as the Vicar of Christ, no matter what his faith level or understanding, has profaned Christ and blasphemed His Holy Spirit.

Therefore, even though he may escape the punishment of man, yet the Lord our God will not suffer him to escape His righteous judgment. (If you'll pardon my using the WSC in a slightly different way.)

In Christ,

KC

__________________
Heb 13:20-21

Kevin C. Easterday
Member Covenant OPC, St. Augustine, FL
Husband to Tina (August 13, 1988), Father and Teacher to Kamden (17) and Kolton (15)
Federal Theology Website
Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Try this link:

The Pope is in Hell

Amen!

We as a group (reformed) are quick to judge and often harsh. We may be right and we may be telling the truth, but as I told our church this morning, "Don't try to witness to your Catholic friends this week by telling them the Pope is in hell." We must take this news and bring it to a personal level - that all of us will die and that there is only One Way to be prepared to face death and judgment. We can use the Pope as an example - all are sinners, the wages of sin is still death, and faith alone in Christ is still the Only Way to be saved.

If they ask outright if we believe he is in hell we have been handed the perfect opportunity to explain the gospel of grace and how God saves sinners. If they press, be honest, but not mean or harsh or judgmental. We must base what we believe on the Bible and take the time to give people the Word of God.

I think Matt's article is right on. But I also think we need to be careful that we all don't jump on the "Pope is burning in hell" bandwagon to the point that we offend people not with the gospel but with our own pontifications about who is and is not deemed by us worthy of salvation!!

This is a critical issue and offers tremendous opportunity to advance the gospel. It also affords us a fantastic opportunity to act like religious bigots and hate filled morons.

CNN is conducting a poll on whether the Pope should be "made a saint." At present, 38,793 votes for aye (61%) and 25,212 votes for nay (39%).

FYI - Matthew, if you see extra traffic coming to your article on the reformation, I've been posting links to it all over the place, especially for some of my protestant friends who have just heard about the Pope having 'Mary I'm Totally Yours' on his sleeve.

Anybody know where I can find (online) Calvin's book on Trent (I think it's called The Acts of the Council of Trent and the Antidote) ?

This is slightly off the subject but Greg Bahnsen mentioned in a sermon dealing with recent converts to the Roman Church concerning JPII.

"I grant that the Pope's a nice guy. I wouldn't mind going to a ballgame with him. But when he puts on that mitre and sacrifices Christ anew in the Mass, he is my sworn enemy, now and forever unless God grants him repentance."

You can find that sermon from Covenant Media titled, "The Road to Rome: Was the Reformation Necessary?"

__________________
J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

Matt,

Thanks alot for this article. I am so happy to see that you are taking this unpopular (but TRUE!) stance.

Yesterday, one of our elders prayed for the pope, and praised him for his work of dividing barriers between Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy and Protestantism.

This caused quite the controversy in our small PCA congregation. But it has also forced me to take my voice to the session, for this drift into friendship with Catholicism is in my opinion a "hill to die on." It is the issue of the gospel itself!!

Thanks again.

__________________
Jeff Bartel
Mechanical Engineer
Member - Trinity Reformed Church - RPCNA

"To believe in the power of man in the work of regeneration is the great heresy of Rome, and from that error has come the ruin of the Church. Conversion proceeds from the grace of God alone, and the system which ascribes it partly to man and partly to God is worse than Pelagianism" (The Reformation in England (London, 1962), Vol. 1, p. 98)

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Here ya go, Kerry!

I want ot link this on my xanga, but I have soooo many catholic friends.

__________________
Tim Potts
Siloam Springs, Arkansas
Member of Covenant Presbyterian Church (PCA)
Student at John Brown University
-Let the church change the world and rather than the world change the church-

Puritan Publications is working on that right now. We are going to put together both the Antodote with his treatise on relics too. Its good stuff.

Thank you, Matt! May I have permission to share this with others?

In an effort to cause even more "trouble",

R.

R. Scott Clark has some great stuff on his site.

This is SUCH an important point!!!

God help us to not be the offense----the Truth is offensive enough!

R.

This is so true, and it doesn't take much truth at that to be offensive. My mother-in-law (a catholic) got mad at my wife recently when she didn't share my mother-in-law's sorrow and concern over the pope's ailing condition. She told her she felt bad for him like she would for any other man, but nothing beyond that. She wasn't trying to be offensive, just telling the truth.

I think that there is a huge difference in how those discussing the subject on this board would approach it if they were speaking in a different context to an audience that was not like minded. I know that I would. I have no desire to hurt anyone and would not run up to my catholic friends and be offensive. I think we have to give that benefit of the doubt to those who are posting here, and yet the reminders of caution in how we approach the subject are valid and welcome.

Excellent. Well said.

__________________
Rev. Daniel Kok
Pastor of Grace Reformed Church (URCNA)
Leduc, Alberta CANADA

"What sort of pledge and how great is this of love towards us! Christ lives for us not for himself!"
John Calvin, Commentary on the Hebrews (7:25)

In light of Pastor Way's post, I was wondering if it might not be a good idea to either modify the names of the threads, or move the threads about the pope into a 'members only' area. I think we want people visiting to react to the doctrine that's presented on the puritanboard, rather than negative comments about someone they hold dear.

Just a thought,
Bob

[Edited on 4-4-2005 by blhowes]

I think thats a good point.

__________________
Shane
Sydenham Baptist
Port Elizabeth, South Africa

"The most damnable and pernicious heresy that has ever plagued the mind of man was the idea that somehow he could make himself good enough to deserve to live with an all Holy God" - Martin Luther

Jeff are you serious ????!?!?!?!?!?

WOW.

Keep us abreast of what goes on.

I am a CMA member, and the same was said in my church...but no controversy.

__________________
Matthew Morales (Husband to Rachel)
Redeemer Presbyterian Church (Santa Rosa, CA)

"...But this is the one to whom I will look: he who is humble and contrite in spirit and trembles at my word." Isaiah 66:2b (ESV)

"Judge not the Lord by feeble sense, But trust Him for his grace;
Behind a frowning providence He hides a smiling face"-William Cowper

Kerry,

I am sorry to say that it is true. I was SO ANGRY in church after hearing this prayer! We do have some good elders, and a great pastor...but some of the elders are not fit to raise children, much less be in a position of leadership.

I am in the process of writing a small declaration to have signed by as many as possible taking a CLEAR stance on Roman Catholicism and it's heretical gospel.

Stand for the truth, in love.

Matthew 10:16, "be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."