Thread: Spurgeon Takes a Whack at the Paedos

And I post this as a paedo and a great admirer of Spurgeon:

What we want is new zeal, fresh energy, more fire; our old Baptist cause has become very slack. The great mass of Baptists appear to be ashamed of their opinions, and many of our ministers say so very little about baptism that people forget that there is such an ordinance of Christ. If we have held our tongues concerning baptism, we have that sin lying at our door, for which we shall have to give account; and I trust that we shall not continue in it any longer. If believers' baptism is an ordinance of Christ - and we know that it is - we ought to speak out plainly about it. I recommend our brethren and sisters to distribute tracts upon the subject, as widely as ever they can; and, especially, to make known the teaching of the New Testament upon this matter. If Paedo-Baptist ministers will only preach upon it, I need not do so, for that will send some of their people to search the Scriptures, and that is all that we want. If our views are not in accordance with God's Word, let us abandon them; but if they are in harmony with our Lord's teaching, let us not hold our tongues concerning them. We have had too much of this guilty silence; let us boldly proclaim the whole truth and, by terrible things in righteousness, answer thou, O God!

From: "Lukewarmness," a sermon on Revelation 3:15-16, preached during the winter of 1860-1861.

If nothing else, this quote shows the intensity of the baptism controversy - at least as Spurgeon perceived it in the early years of his ministry.

Gotta love Spurgeon... he sure had a way didn't he?

Man even when he was wrong he's still good!

Man even when he was right he's still good!

A side not about Spurgeon. Many Arminian Baptist preachers really love Spurgeon. You want to get 'em steamed? Point them to Spurgeon's writing on Calvinism that it is "the gospel." The reactions are priceless.

Originally Posted by Herald

Man even when he was right he's still good!

What makes that quote so good is how right he is.

Originally Posted by Hamalas

Man even when he was wrong he's still good!

Originally Posted by Herald

A side not about Spurgeon. Many Arminian Baptist preachers really love Spurgeon. You want to get 'em steamed? Point them to Spurgeon's writing on Calvinism that it is "the gospel." The reactions are priceless.

Yup. I guess since he had the first "mega" church and thousands came to Christ under his ministry, he had to be alright.

When people get concerned about my Calvinistic tendencies I tell them I'm a Spurgeon-like type of the same. That seems to give them relief IF they know who Spurgeon is!

Originally Posted by Ivan

Originally Posted by Herald

A side not about Spurgeon. Many Arminian Baptist preachers really love Spurgeon. You want to get 'em steamed? Point them to Spurgeon's writing on Calvinism that it is "the gospel." The reactions are priceless.

Yup. I guess since he had the first "mega" church and thousands came to Christ under his ministry, he had to be alright.

When people get concerned about my Calvinistic tendencies I tell them I'm a Spurgeon-like type of the same. That seems to give them relief IF they know who Spurgeon is!

I bought my first five Spurgeon books before I was a Calvinist because he came so highly recommended in my camp. And I have a friend who's husband first trusted Christ under the ministry of an Arminian fire-and-brimstone evangelist, but he learned all his theology afterward from Spurgeon.

Praise God for the truths of the gospel that Spurgeon continues to "preach" to us.

Richard Mouw wrote in Calvinism is a Las Vegas Airport that he heard his first Calvinistic sermon in his early twenties. He states that he had never heard such in depth teaching in his life. He stopped going to this church though because the pastor was beyond boring and Mouw felt that in-depth=boring and he was not willing to pay that price. In comes Spurgeon. His parents happened to buy him a volume of his sermons to which Mouw just so happened to start reading a sermon on election by Spurgeon. Mouw was taken back by the sheer power and passion that was in this sermon. It was at this point that Mouw determined in his heart that in-depth/reformed did not equal boring and from then on he was a devout calvinist.

Originally Posted by bookslover

And I post this as a paedo and a great admirer of Spurgeon:

What we want is new zeal, fresh energy, more fire; our old Baptist cause has become very slack. The great mass of Baptists appear to be ashamed of their opinions, and many of our ministers say so very little about baptism that people forget that there is such an ordinance of Christ. If we have held our tongues concerning baptism, we have that sin lying at our door, for which we shall have to give account; and I trust that we shall not continue in it any longer. If believers' baptism is an ordinance of Christ - and we know that it is - we ought to speak out plainly about it. I recommend our brethren and sisters to distribute tracts upon the subject, as widely as ever they can; and, especially, to make known the teaching of the New Testament upon this matter. If Paedo-Baptist ministers will only preach upon it, I need not do so, for that will send some of their people to search the Scriptures, and that is all that we want. If our views are not in accordance with God's Word, let us abandon them; but if they are in harmony with our Lord's teaching, let us not hold our tongues concerning them. We have had too much of this guilty silence; let us boldly proclaim the whole truth and, by terrible things in righteousness, answer thou, O God!

From: "Lukewarmness," a sermon on Revelation 3:15-16, preached during the winter of 1860-1861.

If nothing else, this quote shows the intensity of the baptism controversy - at least as Spurgeon perceived it in the early years of his ministry.

It seems to me, contrary to Spurgeon's theory, that the more Paedo-Baptist ministers preach paedo-baptism the more Credo's become Paedo's. The vast majority of evangelical (Baptists) I run into are Baptists simply because they know nothing else. There is a Baptist church on every corner, they're converted, they join the church on the corner. Fast forward 10 or 20 years and you have a *firm* believer in Credo - Baptism.

Originally Posted by mangum

Originally Posted by bookslover

And I post this as a paedo and a great admirer of Spurgeon:

What we want is new zeal, fresh energy, more fire; our old Baptist cause has become very slack. The great mass of Baptists appear to be ashamed of their opinions, and many of our ministers say so very little about baptism that people forget that there is such an ordinance of Christ. If we have held our tongues concerning baptism, we have that sin lying at our door, for which we shall have to give account; and I trust that we shall not continue in it any longer. If believers' baptism is an ordinance of Christ - and we know that it is - we ought to speak out plainly about it. I recommend our brethren and sisters to distribute tracts upon the subject, as widely as ever they can; and, especially, to make known the teaching of the New Testament upon this matter. If Paedo-Baptist ministers will only preach upon it, I need not do so, for that will send some of their people to search the Scriptures, and that is all that we want. If our views are not in accordance with God's Word, let us abandon them; but if they are in harmony with our Lord's teaching, let us not hold our tongues concerning them. We have had too much of this guilty silence; let us boldly proclaim the whole truth and, by terrible things in righteousness, answer thou, O God!

From: "Lukewarmness," a sermon on Revelation 3:15-16, preached during the winter of 1860-1861.

If nothing else, this quote shows the intensity of the baptism controversy - at least as Spurgeon perceived it in the early years of his ministry.

It seems to me, contrary to Spurgeon's theory, that the more Paedo-Baptist ministers preach paedo-baptism the more Credo's become Paedo's. The vast majority of evangelical (Baptists) I run into are Baptists simply because they know nothing else. There is a Baptist church on every corner, they're converted, they join the church on the corner. Fast forward 10 or 20 years and you have a *firm* believer in Credo - Baptism.

That is your experience - probably true and largely because most Baptists (especially in the USA, it seems) don't have a clue about Covenant Theology from a Credo point of view to start with.

What we should take from this is that a Credo and a Paedo should preach with the CONFIDENCE Spurgeon has. If we don't have that confidence, perhaps we are on the wrong side. Spurgeon is not here arrogant, but rather confident in the Scriptures.

I wonder why it is that I have seen several young folk from Holland (dutch reformed) come to the UK and become credo? On both sides we need to be in the scriptures and preaching what we believe, not relying on 'thats just the way it is, read your confession' to convince people.

Of course, I do believe that CHS was right. And, seeing as a paedobaptist posted the quote here, I shall make no bones about it!

Originally Posted by Ivan

Originally Posted by Herald

A side not about Spurgeon. Many Arminian Baptist preachers really love Spurgeon. You want to get 'em steamed? Point them to Spurgeon's writing on Calvinism that it is "the gospel." The reactions are priceless.

Yup. I guess since he had the first "mega" church and thousands came to Christ under his ministry, he had to be alright.

When people get concerned about my Calvinistic tendencies I tell them I'm a Spurgeon-like type of the same. That seems to give them relief IF they know who Spurgeon is!

A lot of Calvinists, especially those who tend to oppose churches larger than 200, seem to forget about his mega church. The Soulwinner also bears little resemblance to the evangelism practiced by most Calvinists today.

Originally Posted by JonathanHunt

Originally Posted by mangum

Originally Posted by bookslover

And I post this as a paedo and a great admirer of Spurgeon:

What we want is new zeal, fresh energy, more fire; our old Baptist cause has become very slack. The great mass of Baptists appear to be ashamed of their opinions, and many of our ministers say so very little about baptism that people forget that there is such an ordinance of Christ. If we have held our tongues concerning baptism, we have that sin lying at our door, for which we shall have to give account; and I trust that we shall not continue in it any longer. If believers' baptism is an ordinance of Christ - and we know that it is - we ought to speak out plainly about it. I recommend our brethren and sisters to distribute tracts upon the subject, as widely as ever they can; and, especially, to make known the teaching of the New Testament upon this matter. If Paedo-Baptist ministers will only preach upon it, I need not do so, for that will send some of their people to search the Scriptures, and that is all that we want. If our views are not in accordance with God's Word, let us abandon them; but if they are in harmony with our Lord's teaching, let us not hold our tongues concerning them. We have had too much of this guilty silence; let us boldly proclaim the whole truth and, by terrible things in righteousness, answer thou, O God!

From: "Lukewarmness," a sermon on Revelation 3:15-16, preached during the winter of 1860-1861.

If nothing else, this quote shows the intensity of the baptism controversy - at least as Spurgeon perceived it in the early years of his ministry.

It seems to me, contrary to Spurgeon's theory, that the more Paedo-Baptist ministers preach paedo-baptism the more Credo's become Paedo's. The vast majority of evangelical (Baptists) I run into are Baptists simply because they know nothing else. There is a Baptist church on every corner, they're converted, they join the church on the corner. Fast forward 10 or 20 years and you have a *firm* believer in Credo - Baptism.

That is your experience - probably true and largely because most Baptists (especially in the USA, it seems) don't have a clue about Covenant Theology from a Credo point of view to start with.

What we should take from this is that a Credo and a Paedo should preach with the CONFIDENCE Spurgeon has. If we don't have that confidence, perhaps we are on the wrong side. Spurgeon is not here arrogant, but rather confident in the Scriptures.

I wonder why it is that I have seen several young folk from Holland (dutch reformed) come to the UK and become credo? On both sides we need to be in the scriptures and preaching what we believe, not relying on 'thats just the way it is, read your confession' to convince people.

Of course, I do believe that CHS was right. And, seeing as a paedobaptist posted the quote here, I shall make no bones about it!

A lot of those credos are still credos, but have simply decided a PCA or similar church is right for them at that particular time. If all of the PCA pastors who don't press parents to have their children baptized and who will immerse them on their profession of faith to keep these Baptists happy would stop doing so, I think you'd see fewer Baptists in Presbyterian churches.

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

Originally Posted by Ivan

Originally Posted by Herald

A side not about Spurgeon. Many Arminian Baptist preachers really love Spurgeon. You want to get 'em steamed? Point them to Spurgeon's writing on Calvinism that it is "the gospel." The reactions are priceless.

Yup. I guess since he had the first "mega" church and thousands came to Christ under his ministry, he had to be alright.

When people get concerned about my Calvinistic tendencies I tell them I'm a Spurgeon-like type of the same. That seems to give them relief IF they know who Spurgeon is!

A lot of Calvinists, especially those who tend to oppose churches larger than 200, seem to forget about his mega church. The Soulwinner also bears little resemblance to the evangelism practiced by most Calvinists today.

I have very little experience with Reformed Baptists. I have read biography after biography of Spurgeon and have read his wonderful autobiography. I have read his sermons and other books written by him. Therefore, I think I can say I know Spurgeon. I agree with Spurgeon's philosophy of ministry. The emphasis in my church is on evangelism and missions. I also place great importance on discipleship and the pastoral ministry. I think if I compared the way I do things I might be surprised how unlike I am to Reformed Baptists.

Originally Posted by JonathanHunt

And, seeing as a paedobaptist posted the quote here, I shall make no bones about it!

Sir, I resemble that remark! And, I agree with you that Spurgeon is not arrogant, just supremely confident in the Scriptures - even when he's wrong!

Originally Posted by bookslover

Originally Posted by JonathanHunt

And, seeing as a paedobaptist posted the quote here, I shall make no bones about it!

Sir, I resemble that remark! And, I agree with you that Spurgeon is not arrogant, just supremely confident in the Scriptures - even when he's wrong!

And, I agree with you that Spurgeon is not arrogant, just supremely confident in the Scriptures - even when he's right!

Originally Posted by Herald

Originally Posted by bookslover

Originally Posted by JonathanHunt

And, seeing as a paedobaptist posted the quote here, I shall make no bones about it!

Sir, I resemble that remark! And, I agree with you that Spurgeon is not arrogant, just supremely confident in the Scriptures - even when he's wrong!

And, I agree with you that Spurgeon is not arrogant, just supremely confident in the Scriptures - even when he's right!

Here, here!!

Curious: so what is the point of this thread?

Originally Posted by Poimen

Curious: so what is the point of this thread?

I just wanted to point out the intensity with which Spurgeon felt the force of his theological convictions, and this baptism quote seemed to do that pretty well. One thing about Spurgeon: he could never be accused of shyness when it came to defending the Scriptures - or the Lord who wrote them!

Originally Posted by bookslover

Originally Posted by Poimen

Curious: so what is the point of this thread?

I just wanted to point out the intensity with which Spurgeon felt the force of his theological convictions, and this baptism quote seemed to do that pretty well. One thing about Spurgeon: he could never be accused of shyness when it came to defending the Scriptures - or the Lord who wrote them!

Spurgeon, shy? I think not! But he had one critical component that was necessary to compliment his unyielding opinions: mastery of the Word of God. His age, and ours, was not lacking in the areas of verbosity or boldness from the pulpit. One only needs to read Spurgeon's sermons to understand his knowledge and love for the Word. When you know it and love it, then you can proclaim it.

Originally Posted by Herald

One only needs to read Spurgeon's sermons to understand his knowledge and love for the Word. When you know it and love it, then you can proclaim it.

So true, Bill! I've been reading a Spurgeon sermon daily, as part of my devotions, for the last several months. I've read nearly 300 of his sermons so far, and he never fails to do his best to proclaim and defend the Scriptures.

Originally Posted by mangum

The vast majority of evangelical (Baptists) I run into are Baptists simply because they know nothing else. There is a Baptist church on every corner, they're converted, they join the church on the corner. Fast forward 10 or 20 years and you have a *firm* believer in Credo - Baptism.

Ouch! More true than I would like to admit (in my case anyhow).

Originally Posted by mangum

Originally Posted by bookslover

And I post this as a paedo and a great admirer of Spurgeon:

What we want is new zeal, fresh energy, more fire; our old Baptist cause has become very slack. The great mass of Baptists appear to be ashamed of their opinions, and many of our ministers say so very little about baptism that people forget that there is such an ordinance of Christ. If we have held our tongues concerning baptism, we have that sin lying at our door, for which we shall have to give account; and I trust that we shall not continue in it any longer. If believers' baptism is an ordinance of Christ - and we know that it is - we ought to speak out plainly about it. I recommend our brethren and sisters to distribute tracts upon the subject, as widely as ever they can; and, especially, to make known the teaching of the New Testament upon this matter. If Paedo-Baptist ministers will only preach upon it, I need not do so, for that will send some of their people to search the Scriptures, and that is all that we want. If our views are not in accordance with God's Word, let us abandon them; but if they are in harmony with our Lord's teaching, let us not hold our tongues concerning them. We have had too much of this guilty silence; let us boldly proclaim the whole truth and, by terrible things in righteousness, answer thou, O God!

From: "Lukewarmness," a sermon on Revelation 3:15-16, preached during the winter of 1860-1861.

If nothing else, this quote shows the intensity of the baptism controversy - at least as Spurgeon perceived it in the early years of his ministry.

It seems to me, contrary to Spurgeon's theory, that the more Paedo-Baptist ministers preach paedo-baptism the more Credo's become Paedo's. The vast majority of evangelical (Baptists) I run into are Baptists simply because they know nothing else. There is a Baptist church on every corner, they're converted, they join the church on the corner. Fast forward 10 or 20 years and you have a *firm* believer in Credo - Baptism.

It depends on the type of Baptist church you are referring to. Spurgeon preached on Baptism from a position of theological strength in other areas. That made his argument compelling, in addition to being scriptural. Most confessional Baptist churches would be in Spurgeon's mold in that regard.