The PuritanBoard  

Go Back   The PuritanBoard > Theology > Baptism

Baptism Discuss baptism and the objects of baptism.
This forum is for those who desire to DEBATE and DISCUSS. All others please refrain from this Forum.

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God.

» Online Users: 58
9 members and 49 guests
AThornquist, Chippy, elnwood, Jen, johnbugay, Pergamum, SolaScriptura, Theoretical, TSL316
Most users ever online was 856, 07-06-2007 at 12:19 AM.
Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2008, 08:34 PM
Prufrock's Avatar
Arbitrary Moderation
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Flint, MI
Posts: 2,908
Thanks: 824
Thanked 1,699 Times in 743 Posts
Jewett Book

Have any of you theologians out there read Jewett's book, Infant Baptism and the Covenant of Grace?

Is it an able critique of infant baptism/defense of "believers" baptism, or is it the same arguments as in every other book/article/etc? In other words, does anything set it apart?

Are there any much better books advocating Credo-baptism out there?
__________________
Paul Korte
OPC
Flint, MI

They who perceive in themselves discoveries of the divine goodness, so full and absolutely perfect, and who make them the subject of earnest meditation, will never embrace new doctrines, by which the very grace they feel so powerfully in themselves is thrown into the shade. --John Calvin

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2008, 08:58 PM
Puritanboard Freshman
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 423
Thanks: 103
Thanked 87 Times in 67 Posts
Speaking as at least an "armchair theologian", I recommend it. :^)

One thing I appreciated about the book is its educational value. He spends a lot of time describing the historical background that led to the various views of baptism that emerged at the Reformation. His description was poignant of the theological novelty of the view held by both Reformed and Anabaptists in the 1500's regarding the non-necessity of physical baptism for salvation.

In my opinion his critique of Reformed paedobaptism left no opponent's argument standing... but your mileage may vary. :^)

Dr. Jewett is (well, I guess was) also just a really nice guy. If you want to read a critique of Reformed paedobaptism from someone who is content to state the case, and not rail against his opponents, his work is top notch.

Final note (though I hate to end on a negative note), his orthodoxy is questionable, specifically on inerrancy. There were only one or two paragraphs where I thought this very slightly colored his writing. Generally speaking he was very proper in his use of, and deference to the Word.
__________________
AV
Baptist
VA
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2008, 10:31 PM
CharlieJ's Avatar
Puritanboard Sophomore
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 796
Thanks: 91
Thanked 496 Times in 255 Posts
It is the same as everything else out there, because Jewett is the original and the rest are copies.

I would say it's a mix. I was Baptist moving paedobaptist when I found Jewett. He was, in a sense, the last line of defense, the big guy. I appreciated several points, but was left with the profound sense that he didn't cut it. Particularly, at the beginning he says that he is going to tackle the issue from the perspective of covenant theology, but he doesn't demonstrate any understanding of covenant theology. In fact, from all of Jewett's writings (sabbath, gender roles), I get the impression that he badly misunderstands the movement of redemptive history.
__________________
Charlie Johnson
Downtown Presbyterian Church (PCA)
Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary, student
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following User Says Thank You to CharlieJ For This Useful Post:
Prufrock (12-16-2008)
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2008, 11:17 PM
PuritanCovenanter's Avatar
Norseman Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Speedway, Indiana
Posts: 10,580
Blog Entries: 30
Thanks: 1,671
Thanked 1,901 Times in 1,045 Posts
I would recommend recent publications.

Covenant Theology From Adam to Christ by Nehemiah Coxe.
SGCB | Book Search

And Alan Conners book Covenant Children Today.
SGCB | Book Search

I have read Malones most recent revised book Baptism of Disciples Alone and I think it is done very well.
SGCB | Book Search




I read Jewett years ago and thought it was just ok. The 3 other books are by far much better.
__________________

Norseman Moderator

R. Martin Snyder
1689er
http://www.puritanboard.com/blogs/puritancovenanter/

"Our object should not be to have scripture on our side but to be on the side of scripture; and however dear any sentiment may have become by being long entertained, so soon as it is seen to be contrary to the Bible, we must be prepared to abandon it without hesitation."
William Symington

Click to get:Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to PuritanCovenanter For This Useful Post:
ManleyBeasley (12-18-2008), Prufrock (12-16-2008), TsonMariytho (12-17-2008)
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2008, 12:10 AM
Philip A's Avatar
Puritanboard Sophomore
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ridgecrest, CA
Posts: 546
Thanks: 6
Thanked 23 Times in 15 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieJ View Post
It is the same as everything else out there, because Jewett is the original and the rest are copies.

I would say it's a mix. I was Baptist moving paedobaptist when I found Jewett. He was, in a sense, the last line of defense, the big guy. I appreciated several points, but was left with the profound sense that he didn't cut it. Particularly, at the beginning he says that he is going to tackle the issue from the perspective of covenant theology, but he doesn't demonstrate any understanding of covenant theology. In fact, from all of Jewett's writings (sabbath, gender roles), I get the impression that he badly misunderstands the movement of redemptive history.
This pretty well summarizes my sentiments as well.
__________________
Philip A - Member, High Desert United Reformed Church, Apple Valley, CA.

"Reason also is choice" - Milton, Paradise Lost
"And then shall every word also seem consistent to him, if he for his part diligently read the Scriptures in company with those who are presbyters in the Church, among whom is the apostolic doctrine, as I have pointed out." - Irenaeus, Against Heresies, IV:XXXII.
"where there is text, there is hope" - Richard A. Muller
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following User Says Thank You to Philip A For This Useful Post:
Prufrock (12-17-2008)
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2008, 12:21 AM
Inactive User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Fayetteville, Arkansas
Posts: 1,299
Thanks: 655
Thanked 375 Times in 208 Posts
"Believer's Baptism" edited by Thomas Schreiner and Shawn Wright is a great book on the subject. It's top notch and hits all the issues in my opinion. Wayne Grudem and Bruce Ware both say its a definitive work.

Amazon Amazon
__________________
[B]Manley Beasley[/B]
Southern Baptist Convention
Fayetteville, Arkansas

[B]Wir sein pettler. Hoc est verum (We are beggars. This is true.).--Luther's dying words[/B]
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to ManleyBeasley For This Useful Post:
Pilgrim (12-19-2008), Prufrock (12-17-2008), TsonMariytho (12-17-2008)
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12-17-2008, 12:45 AM
DMcFadden's Avatar
Meum cerebrum nocet
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Gabriel, CA
Posts: 7,501
Thanks: 1,767
Thanked 3,535 Times in 1,715 Posts
My "appreciation" for Jewett is tainted by feeling he was one of the most singularly boring profs I ever endured in seminary, by his famously bald "Paul was wrong about women" argument, and by his support for the homosexual line of exegesis (near the end of his life). Nevertheless, Shisko treats him as the gun on the topic of credo baptism. I would agree that Shreiner would be the best of the more recent works.
__________________
Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following User Says Thank You to DMcFadden For This Useful Post:
Prufrock (12-17-2008)
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2008, 11:28 PM
Pilgrim's Avatar
Puritanboard Doctor
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Mandeville, LA
Posts: 7,361
Thanks: 1,495
Thanked 932 Times in 643 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMcFadden View Post
My "appreciation" for Jewett is tainted by feeling he was one of the most singularly boring profs I ever endured in seminary, by his famously bald "Paul was wrong about women" argument, and by his support for the homosexual line of exegesis (near the end of his life). Nevertheless, Shisko treats him as the gun on the topic of credo baptism. I would agree that Shreiner would be the best of the more recent works.
Believer's Baptism edited by Schreiner and Wright is better because it deals far more comprehensively with Reformed paedo thought, especially with more recent writers like John Murray, Meredith Kline and Pierre Marcel as well as the arguments in the recent The Case for Covenantal Infant Baptism edited by Greg Strawbridge defending infant baptism that included contributions by the editor as well as Doug Wilson, Randy Booth, Richard Pratt, etc. (When I first saw it, I thought that Believer's Baptism may be in part a response to the Strawbridge volume.)

From what I recall, Jewett's interlocutors were primarily neo-orthodox theologians like Oscar Cullman and Joachim Jeremias, and much of his case appears to be a continuation of Barth's criticism of them. (IIRC he does interact somewhat with Calvin and older Reformed theologians and maybe a little with a few more recent writers.) However the enduring influence of Jewett's book is attested to by the number of times it is cited in the Schreiner volume. He shows up 5 times in the index. A whole chapter in the Strawbridge volume defending paedobaptism is essentially dedicated to interacting with Jewett as well. Dennis found Jewett to have been a boring professor, but he brought considerable rhetorical prowess to the table in writing that book, and that may be one reason why it continues to be influential despite his objectionable views on other issues.

I think Jewett may be out of print or if it is not, it's not a book you come across everyday. As others have noted there are definitely other books to read first, but if you can obtain Jewett relatively cheaply and its within the budget, I'd jump at it if it . The two that I would recommend to read first are Alan Conner's Covenant Children Today which is a relatively short book that simply looks at the issue from a Biblical standpoint and doesn't specifically interact with paedos by name (although the arguments are addressed) and Believer's Baptism for the reasons I mentioned above.
__________________
Christian
One Pilgrims Progress

Last edited by Pilgrim; 12-18-2008 at 11:53 PM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 12-18-2008, 11:46 PM
Prufrock's Avatar
Arbitrary Moderation
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Flint, MI
Posts: 2,908
Thanks: 824
Thanked 1,699 Times in 743 Posts
I actually have the copy already, and finished reading it a few days ago. A friend gave it to me to convince me. I was just trying to get a feel from everyone if they thought it was exceptionally good compared to others, or if there were other better ones out there.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 12-19-2008, 12:50 AM
Pilgrim's Avatar
Puritanboard Doctor
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Mandeville, LA
Posts: 7,361
Thanks: 1,495
Thanked 932 Times in 643 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prufrock View Post
I actually have the copy already, and finished reading it a few days ago. A friend gave it to me to convince me. I was just trying to get a feel from everyone if they thought it was exceptionally good compared to others, or if there were other better ones out there.
It is a good book, but Believer's Baptism probably does the best job of interacting with the latest scholarship.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-19-2008, 01:14 AM
PuritanCovenanter's Avatar
Norseman Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Speedway, Indiana
Posts: 10,580
Blog Entries: 30
Thanks: 1,671
Thanked 1,901 Times in 1,045 Posts
I only have a few reservations about Believers Baptism. I noticed some of the contributors were not thoroughly Covenant Theologians in the Baptist tradition. I remember reading comments that seemed to downgrade the Covenant of Grace. Fred Malone's revised book is better in some areas. I did like that the Believers Baptism book did deal with Kline and Marcel. That was a plus. And one contributor acknowledged that baptism is a means of grace.

I still don't think a good understanding of Baptist CT can be understood in its best light without the Nehemiah Coxe book on Covenant Theology. He does such a good job with the Abrahamic Covenant in my opinion.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to PuritanCovenanter For This Useful Post:
Prufrock (12-19-2008), Stephen L Smith (12-19-2008)
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12-19-2008, 04:58 PM
Stephen L Smith's Avatar
Puritanboard Freshman
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hastings, Hawkes Bay, New Zealand
Posts: 137
Thanks: 26
Thanked 50 Times in 35 Posts
Quote:
I still don't think a good understanding of Baptist CT can be understood in its best light without the Nehemiah Coxe book on Covenant Theology. He does such a good job with the Abrahamic Covenant in my opinion.
Randy, how does this book compare with Pink's Divine Covenants?
__________________
Stephen Smith
Reformed Baptist
New Zealand
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.0

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2 ©2009, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2002-2008 PuritanBoard.com
Hosted by WebsiteMaven - helping ministries with web hosting advice, reviews, and design.
67 Westminster Abbey © Confessional Presbyterian Presses - used with permission.
Add Our Custom Button to your Google Toolbar

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69