"I have never met a paedobaptist"

CanuckPuritan24 · #1 (**permalink**) 12-24-2007, 03:55 PM

I need some assistance and I hope I've come to the right place.

This past Lord's day I was talking with a visiting Baptist pastor regarding the issue of baptism. And he informed me that he had never met a true paedobaptist. He went on to inform me that the Greek work for baptism contains within the word the precise mode of baptism; meaning ' to dip' or 'immerse'. And he concluded by saying that he had yet to meet a person who had immersed a baby.

Is the mode in the greek inseperably tied to the word 'baptism'?

Thank you

Contra_Mundum · #2 (**permalink**) 12-24-2007, 04:07 PM

In a word, that is simple baptist propaganda.

Let me quote myself from an earlier post:

Quote:

Jay Adams' little booklet (probably still can get it from P&R, or maybe Timeless Texts) "The Meaning and Mode of Baptism" has a bit on the meaning of the word in its biblical context. This booklet is highly readable, aimed at the man in the pew.

But what may be most helpful in this context is the brief definitional excerpt he takes from the conclusion of volume one of the definitive work on baptism, R.W. Dale's massive work-of-exhaustion, written in the 19th century, recently republished by P&R (a joint venture).

Quote:

Agamemnon was baptized; Bacchus was baptized; Cupid was baptized; Cleinian was baptized; Alexander was baptized; Panthia was baptized; Otho was baptized; Charicles was baptized; and a host of others were baptized, each differing from the other in the nature or the mode, or both.

A blind man could more readily select any demanded color from the spectrum, or a child could more readily thread the Cretan Labyrinth, than could 'the seven wise men of Greece' declare the nature, or mode, of any given baptism by the naked help of baptizo.

... WHATEVER IS CAPABLE OF THOROUGHLY CHANGING THE CHARACTER, STATE, OR CONDITION OF ANY OBJECT, IS CAPABLE OF BAPTIZING THAT OBJECT: AND BY SUCH CHANGE OF CHARACTER, STATE, OR CONDITION DOES, IN FACT, BAPTIZE IT.

Dale's work is possibly the most thorough survey of a single word in Greek ever attempted, much less accomplished. Vol. 1 is called "Classic Baptism," and surveyed the entire corpus of ancient Greek literature for its use of the term 'baptizo'. He followed up this massive work with FOUR MORE volumes dealing with Christic baptism & Patristic baptism (reprint two vols in one), Judaic baptism and Johannine baptism.

Baptizo dosn't "mean" immerse. It's meaning covers a semantic range that can only be determined by its context.

As for his never meeting an immersed baby, obviously, from his own testimony, he doesn't get out of his own circles much. The Eastern Orthodox put the whole kid through the baptismal font, three dips I believe. Their baptism isn't much different from the Romanists in meaning, but that's not the subject at hand.

Me Died Blue · #3 (**permalink**) 12-24-2007, 04:08 PM

In addition to Bruce's post above, there was a good deal of additional helpful discussion in the same thread.

Poimen · #4 (**permalink**) 12-24-2007, 04:10 PM

Josiah:

Here are some threads that may assist you-

http://www.puritanboard.com/f19/bapt...mmersion-3621/

"Baptizo"

Semper Fidelis · #5 (**permalink**) 12-24-2007, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanuckPuritan24

Is the mode in the greek inseperably tied to the word 'baptism'?

Not unless Noah's ark was a submarine.

tellville · #6 (**permalink**) 12-24-2007, 04:21 PM

The Eastern Orthodox fully immerse babies when they baptise them. And they do it three times! (I baptise you in the name of the Father <immerse>, the Son <immerse>, and the Holy Spirit <immerse>). Of course, the reason they baptise infants is different then why Presbyterians and other Reformed or Protestant groups baptise infants.

<oops! Pastor Bruce already said this!>

Contra_Mundum · #7 (**permalink**) 12-24-2007, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemperFideles

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanuckPuritan24

Is the mode in the greek inseperably tied to the word 'baptism'?

Not unless Noah's ark was a submarine.

!

CanuckPuritan24 · #8 (**permalink**) 12-24-2007, 04:36 PM

Thank you guys for your very prompt responses.... I'm going to be attempting round #2 with this pastor on Jan 6 and you have given me some food for thought.

Cheers