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02-16-2007, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by JM  What if his parents were believers? | My gut reaction was to say no, but I suppose it would depend upon their age (how old was Isaac?)...but then there is the whole where does the age of discretion begin debate.
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02-16-2007, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by AV1611 My gut reaction was to say no, but I suppose it would depend upon their age (how old was Isaac?)...but then there is the whole where does the age of discretion begin debate. | Ok, what if you had a butler and a maid living in your house, under your roof [and you may have, I don’t know], would you baptize them?
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02-16-2007, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by trevorjohnson The circumcision of the flesh is replaced by the circumcision of the heart. | A. The true Israel (the remnant) were circumcised in their heart. B. Some of the circumcision of the flesh had the circumcision of the heart in the OT.
So I am not convinced it is a clear cut as that.
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02-16-2007, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by JM Ok, what if you had a butler and a maid living in your house, under your roof [and you may have, I don’t know], would you baptize them? | Again my gut reaction would be to say no.
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02-16-2007, 11:13 AM
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...the promises of the new covenant include that the entire covenant community would know the Lord, from the least to the greatest.
| That sounds about right.
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02-16-2007, 11:39 AM
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Ok, I'll bring it up:
So, to all those who think only believing adults ought to be baptized, (If I'm reading the last few posts correctly) what do you do with the NT "HOUSEHOLD" baptisms? Sorry, need to ask, since I've not heard any believer's baptism only folk able to give me a valid explanation without having to inject some presupposition (ie. there were no children in the households) which does not exist in the text. 
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Grace Knox
Remembering Man's Chief End
P.R.C. of Northern Virginia
Psalms 139:23 - 24 Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting. |
02-16-2007, 12:03 PM
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I'm doctrinally paedo, but to be honest, the "household" argument has always struck me as lame.
At one point Don and I had a household of several people, us plus five elementary-school-up-to-adult children...no infants or toddlers, though.
The "household" verses prove nothing either way, ISTM.
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02-16-2007, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by paul manata Not if they didn't profess.
Even in the OT, is the slaves in the house didn't profess, if they denied that they wanted to follow Jehovah, if they wanted to continue to worship false God, etc., they were not circumcised.
Now, I guess you could argue that this idea isn't true. | Paul, I wouldn't argue with you, I've seen/heard you debate.  Quote:
That, even granting all of the above, the slaves would be circumcised. So, we'd have, say, Moses, circumcising unwilling participants. Now, if you weren't willing, how would you feel about someone cutting parts of your member off with an ancient knife? So, was Moses running around like a manican, trapping running slaves, tying them down, and then cutting their members while they were kicking and screaming?
And then, these God haters were forced to take offerings to the priest? They were forced to repent, partake of the passover, etc?
Wow, what an interesting view baptists have of the OT.
Seems odd to me. But I think my paradigm makes more sense and is more plausible: Adults have always had to profess, children have not..
| I always thought a slave did the will of his master, especially in the Biblical sense? What would happen if a slave didn't do what was asked of him?  |
02-16-2007, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by paul manata He wouldn't be included as a covenant member.
There were plenty of pagans who lived in Jewish territory, I think we can assume they were "asked" to turn unto Jehovah. If they did not, they still lived amongst the Jews, just not as a covenant member.
At any rate, if the salve "always did the will of the master," then we'd have all the slaves being circumcised because they professed faith and turned from their idols only to follow Jehovah.
So, even if your point is true, it just underscores my point. | How so?
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02-16-2007, 07:52 PM
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I actually typed up a post, but it doesn't matter. 
Peace,
j
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