Hi:

If credo-baptists can refute the presentation of Baptism given in this book, then they have refuted the whole of infant baptism, and not simply their peculiar understanding of it:

Reformation Media & Press

An updated and online copy can be found here:

http://whataboutbaptism.livinghopepress.com/

Give an honest reading of it, and you will find that Infant Baptism is commanded in Scripture.

Blessings,

Rob

__________________
In Essentials Unity, in non-Essentials Liberty, in all things Charity.

Robert Paul Wieland
Springs Reformed Presbyterian Church
Colorado Springs, CO RPCNA
Student at Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary, Pittsburgh PA
Never be afraid to do something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark, but professionals built the Titanic.

Not so sure I'm willing to put so much stock in one book that I'm willing to "bet the farm" on it... but thanks for the recommendation!

__________________
Ben
Chaplain, US Army
Ft. Riley, KS
TE Ohio Valley Presbytery, PCA

There is no sweat with that - once you read the book - you will know what I mean.

Blessings,

Rob

Mr. Wieland, you should buy us all a copy.

__________________
Josh Hicks, Chloë's Dad
Christ Covenant Reformed Presbyterian Church, RPCGA
Facebook - The Calvinist Vent
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It is God that multiplies our sorrows.... God, as a righteous Judge, does it, which ought to silence us under all our sorrows; as many as they are, we have deserved them all, and more: nay, God, as a tender Father, does it for our necessary correction, that we may be humbled for sin, and weaned from the world by all our sorrows; and the good we get by them, with the comfort we have under them, will abundantly balance our sorrows, how greatly soever they are multiplied. - Matthew Henry

I tell you what--if you buy it for me, I'll critically analyze it for you.

__________________
Jonathan
Audio Engineer
Reformed Anabaptist
Ohio

Moroni's magical glasses of proper interpretation:

wow. it must be a good book. Look at the price on Amazon!

__________________
Andrew S.
Covenant Presbyterian Church (OPC)
Abilene,TX

Hi:

I would love to buy you all copies - however - I am a poor Seminary Student here in Pittsburgh.

The first link I included in the OP sells the book for $8.99 plus shipping. I would think that it is very inexpensive.

The second link has a place where you can download a copy for $15. Is such not worth the price of getting Baptism right?

Blessings,

Rob

Yeah, but I can read the Bible and Witsius for free!

I've heard the same superlative stated of Marcel's work but thanks for the heads up:

__________________
Rich
PCA, Northern VA
Student, New Geneva Theological Seminary

WebsiteMaven - Web Hosting Reviews, Guides, and Advice to build and promote your web site.
SoliDeoGloria.com - A Community for Reformed Thought and Discussion

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As have I... the difference being that Marcel's work - among others - has been interacted with by credo opponents.

Man, if I could fetch $2,239.88 for 73 pages of opining, maybe I would change my position on baptism! Thanks for the links to a much more reasonably priced source. I did the download version. Since he is a Bob Jones grad, I thought it would be more prudent to purchase the electronic version so that there would be appropriate separation (not sure if it is primary or secondary) for my apostate ways.

Seriously, it looks good. Thanks for the tip.

__________________
Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

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A BJU grad and a GPTS grad. I guess I won't be the first one. The way it looks right now, I won't be the last either.

__________________
Charlie Johnson
Downtown Presbyterian Church (PCA)
Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary, student

Just an FYI...I have confirmed the author of this book on baptism as a guest on Covenant Radio. The boradcast will likely be in September. Morre information as I get it.

__________________
William F. Hill, Jr.
Immanuel Presbyterian Church, (PCA)
Norfolk, Va.

Thanks for the links! it looks very interesting.

__________________
Andrea
Presbyterian, attending Baptist church
Perugia, Italy
Owner: federiformata.it

"Quos et vocavit nos non solum ex Iudæis sed etiam ex gentibus" (Rom. 9.24)

Do you think this new book will present any new exegetical insights or arguments?

I'm not asking to be contrary, I'm just wondering.

I've run across this a time or two and was thinking about it. Thanks for the heads up.

Do you know anyone here who may have commented on it in a thread?

__________________
Brian E
Attending Falls OPC
Menomonee Falls, WI

I must get a copy.

__________________
Nathan Tyler
Reformed Baptist
University of Toronto (Student: Hons. B.A. in Philosophy)
Ontario, Canada

1689'er

http://nathantyler.wordpress.com

Marcel's book is one of the best to date. I am not familiar with this new one, so if you think this is better than Marcel, then it surely must be worth a read.

__________________
Steven J. Carr (Sven)
http://beholdingthebeauty.blogspot.com/
Eagan, MN
PCA
"Weak is the effort of my heart / And cold my warmest thought / But when I see thee as thou art / I'll praise thee as I ought."--John Newton
Trophy Wife/Arm Candy: Crystal Ann Children: Steven Jr. and Hannah Grace

I started Marcel a while back even though it might be hazardous to my employment. This new one looks interesting and worth a read insofar as it represents the shift of a practicing credo to paedo.

At least the baptists. Call it missions work and send mine UPS.

__________________
Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

I read all of his articles on the site. The book may be more exhaustive but he leaves out some important points that I think are vital.

The main things missing here for me was that Water Baptism is not Holy Spirit Baptism. The Baptists get these two mixed up in verses.

Buried with Him in Baptism is not speaking about water baptism, it is speaking about our actual death and new birth in Spirit Baptism.

So not only does the type not apply anyway, the passage is not referring to the sacrament.

So water baptism is to symbolize what is happening in Spirit Baptism. The Spirit is poured out on us, from above, descending on us. Just as it did Jesus when He was baptized.

If mode is important, which to an extent I think it is in Baptism and in the Supper we pour or sprinkle as in the purification, but not immerse or dip.

Also the only ones ever immersed were the lost in Noah's flood and the lost army of Pharoah. Though the Israelites as they went across on dry ground were not enveloped or immersed, but it says they were baptized in the Red Sea, perhaps by a sprinkling of the waters on them as they were being held back by wind; whereas the Egyptians were immersed to death.


Also he did not mention anything about the Spirit being poured out on the priests. Oil was poured on them. This was a symbol of the out pouring of the Spirit on them. It was anointing or a symbol of identification with the Spirit. This was signified by the anointing or pouring of oil on the head and down the robe of the priest.
Water baptism is the identification with Christ and union with Him. So the same applies to water baptism now. Pouring or sprinkling as in purification.

Anything but making a big production of getting people totally wet, wasting water which has been and is in short supply in many places, and polluting the bowl or tank by putting something symbolically dirty into it. This is why most washings were not in basins, but pouring.

Maybe these are covered in the whole book. Lots of this scripture on sprinkling as purification is covered in threads here.

__________________
DonP

Mr. Wieland, how does this book measure up against Marcel's work?

Thanks,

__________________
Chris
Presbyterian Reformed Church of Charlotte (PRC)
Student, Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary
SC

...hope is nothing but the nourishment and strength of faith.
~ Calvin's Institutes III.ii.43

Hello PeaceMaker:

The Book does address the "missing points" that you made above. He has a whole section relating to the Baptist views of Romans 6:1-11 and Col 2:8ff. He delves into how the Baptists misuse the Greek word Bapto. He painstakingly points out that "Water Baptism Illustrates the Baptism of the Holy Spirit."

I appreciate your concerns, but if you do read the book, then you will find that your concerns are molified.

Blessings,

Rob

-----Added 7/20/2009 at 01:46:08 EST-----

I have not read Marcel's book - but I will!

Blessings,

Rob

I've read a lot of stuff on infant baptism and never found anything persuasive to me. Has this fellow got a new killer argument that I won't have seen before? If so, can you share it with us please and save me spending more money on books?

Steve

I, too, have read almost all the 'must read' books on paedo baptism. I've honestly tried to put my predisposition on the shelf. Obviously, none of them have convinced me. In the course of hundreds of years no book has been written that nails the position down into an irrefutable position until now? I don't think so.

__________________
We shall not adjust our Bible to the age; but before we have done with it, by God's grace, we shall adjust the age to the Bible. - Charles Haddon Spurgeon

Lawrence Underwood, Jr.
Pastor - Providence Family Fellowship / Mobile, Alabama
1644/46 LBC
My Blog - Imprimis

Actually I think Doug Wilson's book To a Thousand Generations is also an excellent book on infant baptism. His chapter "Circumcision in the New Testament" is worth the price of the book alone. He deals with many of the issues of circumcision that Marcel dealt with in his book, but I think he added a different twist to things in his exegesis of Acts 18.

__________________
Randy Harris
Heritage PCA Church
Oklahoma City, OK

If one agrees with the main argument of a book then one will tend to think it unanswerable. I think the arguments in Covenant Children Today by Alan Conner and A Reformed Baptist manifesto by Waldron & Barcellos are unanswerable. Come to thnk of it, I tend to think all my arguments are unanswerable.

It just goes to prove the truth of Prov 18:17.

Steve

__________________
Steve Owen
Husband of Jan. Father of Catherine, Sarah & Jonathan
1689er, Deacon at Scott Drive Church, Exmouth UK (FIEC)
Itinerant preacher & Bible Teacher in Merrie England
[url]www.spurgeonunderground.blogspot.com[/url]
'Behold, the fear of the LORD, that is wisdom. And to depart from evil is understanding'.

pointless thread
fodder for the contentious
closing

__________________
Rev. Bruce G. Buchanan
ChainOLakes Presbyterian Church, CentralLake, MI


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