» Site Navigation | | | |  | 
08-09-2005, 01:03 PM
| | Inactive User | | Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: RTP, NC
Posts: 17
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
| | | The BCO and it's wording on Infant Baptism
I was talking to a friend the other day about baptism of infants at our PCA church. It is clearly stated each time that our church baptises infants as covenant members of our church.
The following words are spoken to the parents and congregation:
1. Do you acknowledge your childīs need of the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ, and the renewing grace of the Holy Spirit?
2. Do you claim Godīs covenant promises in (his) behalf, and do you look in faith to the Lord Jesus Christ for (his) salvation, as you do for your own?
3. Do you now unreservedly dedicate your child to God, and promise, in humble reliance upon divine grace, that you will endeavor to set before (him) a godly example, that you will pray with and for (him), that you will teach (him) the doctrines of our holy religion, and that you will strive, by all the means of Godīs appointment, to bring (him) up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord?
To the congregation (optional):
Do you as a congregation undertake the responsibility of assisting the parents in the Christian nurture of this child?
And this is done at an infant baptism. No more words, really, are read or questions asked.
But in the BCO, previous to these questions, it states several of the following, making no distinction about the baptism being infant or child/adult profession of faith baptism:
c. That the water, in baptism, represents and signifies both the blood of Christ, which taketh away all guilt of sin, original and actual; and the sanctifying virtue of the Spirit of Christ against the dominion of sin, and the corruption of our sinful nature;
d. That baptizing, or sprinkling and washing with water, signifies the cleansing from sin by the blood and for the merit of Christ, together with the mortification of sin, and rising from sin to newness of life, by virtue of the death and resurrection of Christ;
Now. To my friend, reading these words, it looked like the BCO supports that infants who are baptized are considered full members and "saved", their sins being washed away.
I am trying to figure out how to explain to her that the PCA does not believe that infant baptism saves children, but that it baptises them into the covenant, and later on after they have professed faith and been examined by the elders, then they come forward to make a public confession and are baptised.
Can anyone help me here? I have spent my free time this morning looking through the forums on the subject of baptism and paedobaptism and stuff, but I could not find anything that addressed what the BCO said.
I appreciate any guidance or references on this. My husband is away on business and I'm sure could easily point me in the right direction... but I wanted an answer more quickly than he could provide!
__________________
Jeni
wife to Rob (RTS Charlotte student)
mama to Grace (5), Lily (2), and nurturing another blessing due 10/05
Member of Peace Presbyterian Church
Cary, NC
| 
08-09-2005, 01:08 PM
|  | PCA Pastor | | Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,281
Thanks: 118
Thanked 1,435 Times in 639 Posts
| | |
Jeni,
It is important to remember that the signification does not always accompany the thing signified at the same time.
You have hit upon an area of importance - the crucial difference between noncommuning and communing members. That is why in my estimation paedocommunion views lead very often to abberant views on regeneration and justification.
__________________ Fredrick T. Greco
Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA (Katy, TX) Christ Church Blog "The heart is the main thing in true religion...It is the hinge and turning-point in the condition of man's soul. If the heart is alive to God and quickened by the Spirit, the man is a living Christian. If the heart is dead and has not the Spirit, the man is dead before God." (J.C. Ryle) | 
08-09-2005, 01:10 PM
|  | The BOOOOT | | Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hurst, Texas
Posts: 2,597
Thanks: 37
Thanked 161 Times in 108 Posts
| |
Chapter 28 of the WCF on Baptism should clear up your questions: Quote:
I. Baptism is a sacrament of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ,[1] not only for the solemn admission of the party baptized into the visible Church;[2] but also to be unto him a sign and seal of the covenant of grace,[3] of his ingrafting into Christ,[4] of regeneration,[5] of remission of sins,[6] and of his giving up unto God, through Jesus Christ, to walk in the newness of life.[7] Which sacrament is, by Christ's own appointment, to be continued in His Church until the end of the world.[8]
II. The outward element to be used in this sacrament is water, wherewith the party is to be baptized, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, by a minister of the Gospel, lawfully called thereunto.[9]
III. Dipping of the person into the water is not necessary; but Baptism is rightly administered by pouring, or sprinkling water upon the person.[10]
IV. Not only those that do actually profess faith in and obedience unto Christ,[11] but also the infants of one, or both, believing parents, are to be baptized.[12]
V. Although it is a great sin to contemn or neglect this ordinance,[13] yet grace and salvation are not so inseparably annexed unto it, as that no person can be regenerated, or saved, without it:[14] or, that all that are baptized are undoubtedly regenerated.[15] VI. The efficacy of Baptism is not tied to that moment of time wherein it is administered;[16] yet, notwithstanding, by the right use of this ordinance, the grace promised is not only offered, but really exhibited, and conferred, by the Holy Ghost, to such (whether of age or infants) as that grace belongs unto, according to the counsel of God's own will, in His appointed time.[17]
VII. The sacrament of Baptism is but once to be administered unto any person.[18] | | 
08-09-2005, 01:12 PM
|  | Puritanboard Doctor | | Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Margate, Florida
Posts: 8,550
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
| | |
Jeni,
Baptism points toward that which God has already accomplished. Placing the sign on the infant is not what makes them a covenant child. We place the sign upon them BECAUSE they are covenant children. God commands, hence it is done.
Surely, the rite itself does not regenerate; however, it does point to that which God has promised. Speaking for myself, I have faith that Gods promises are true; in that I will trust and have faith. It is men whom are faithless.
It is not presbyterian thinking to look for experience or events; our children are to be raised as Christians, because, that is exactly what they are.
Rebaptisms are not biblical!
[Edited on 8-9-2005 by Scott Bushey]
__________________
Scott Bushey
Husband to Tina, father to Nicole, Danielle and Zoe
Member First Presbyterian Church of Margate PCA
| 
08-09-2005, 02:23 PM
|  | Moderator | | Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Leduc, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,024
Thanks: 168
Thanked 521 Times in 288 Posts
| | |
Great answers Fred and Scott!
We struggle with this question in our (Dutch) Reformed circles too Jeni. The most common error is to attribute what baptism signifies to every person who is baptized.
We have to remember that the blessings which baptism signifies (regeneration and the forgiveness of sins) are not tied to the rite of baptism but are given by God to whom He desires, when He desires. At the same time, as Scott mentioned, we trust in God's promises to the child that these things are true of them for God in His covenant embraces the children of believers.
But remember that a sacrament also cuts both ways: it stands for salvation and it also stands for condemnation. Pharoah and his hosts perished in the Red Sea while Israel was saved; the world drowned in the flood while Noah and his family escaped. Similarly some were sick and fell asleep when they unworthily partook of the Lord's Supper (1 Corinthians 11:30).
A sacrament's efficacy depends upon the believing or unbelieving response of the one who receives it. If a child embraces Christ by faith (at whatever age) that sacrament is a blessing to them. If a child rejects Christ through unbelief then it is to their condemnation.
I believe it is helpful to contemplate what the Belgic Confession, Article 35 says at this point:
"Further, though the sacraments are connected with the thing signified nevertheless both are not received by all men. The ungodly indeed receives the sacrament to his condemnation, but he does not receive the truth of the sacrament, even as Judas and Simon the sorcerer both indeed received the sacrament but not Christ who was signified by it, of whom believers only are made partakers."
[Edited on 8-9-2005 by poimen]
__________________
Rev. Daniel Kok
Pastor of Grace Reformed Church (URCNA)
Leduc, Alberta CANADA Church Blog
"there is no creature, either in heaven or on earth, who loves us more than Jesus Christ" Belgic Confession, Article 26
Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions? | 
08-17-2005, 09:34 PM
| | Puritanboard Sophomore | | Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 954
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts
| | Quote: |
It is not presbyterian thinking to look for experience or events; our children are to be raised as Christians, because, that is exactly what they are.
| You hit that one right on the head. That's one of the first things I realized as I became more and more on the infant/covenant side. It changed our thinking radically, still does, especially behind my/our prayers altogether. At the end of the day it has strengthened my faith and hope (expectation).
L
__________________
Larry Hughes
Geologist
Tates Creek PCA
Lexington, KY
PCA
Galatians 4:29, "But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also."
| 
08-18-2005, 12:17 AM
|  | Moderator | | Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Leduc, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,024
Thanks: 168
Thanked 521 Times in 288 Posts
| | Quote: Originally posted by Larry Hughes Quote: |
It is not presbyterian thinking to look for experience or events; our children are to be raised as Christians, because, that is exactly what they are.
| You hit that one right on the head. That's one of the first things I realized as I became more and more on the infant/covenant side. It changed our thinking radically, still does, especially behind my/our prayers altogether. At the end of the day it has strengthened my faith and hope (expectation).
L
| I was wondering about this statement that Scott made for some time and I was hoping he (you Scott) could explain it.
I agree that they our covenant children are to be raised as Christians but would you say that they all are? It seems to me that you would end up defining a Christian as having two different definitions (a la D. Wilson in "Reformed Is Not Enough"). Do we really want to say a Christian is one who has simply been baptized? Or do I misunderstand you here?
Heidelberg Catechism, Q&A 32
Q. But why are you called a Christian?
A. Because by faith I am a member of Christ [1] and thus a partaker of His anointing,[2] in order that I also may confess His Name,[3] may present myself a living sacrifice of thankfulness to Him,[4] and with a free conscience may fight against sin and the devil in this life,[5] and hereafter in eternity reign with Him over all creatures.[6]
1. Acts 11:26; I John 2:20, 27
2. Acts 2:17
3. Mark 8:38
4. Rom. 12:1; Rev. 5:8, 10; I Peter 2:9; Rev. 1:6
5. I Tim. 1:18-19
6. II Tim. 2:12; Eph. 6:12; Rev. 3:21
| 
08-18-2005, 09:15 AM
|  | PB Evil Scientist...Boo! | | Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Decorah, IA
Posts: 3,293
Thanks: 98
Thanked 766 Times in 451 Posts
| | Quote: Originally posted by Beloved
But in the BCO, previous to these questions, it states several of the following, making no distinction about the baptism being infant or child/adult profession of faith baptism:
c. That the water, in baptism, represents and signifies both the blood of Christ, which taketh away all guilt of sin, original and actual; and the sanctifying virtue of the Spirit of Christ against the dominion of sin, and the corruption of our sinful nature;
d. That baptizing, or sprinkling and washing with water, signifies the cleansing from sin by the blood and for the merit of Christ, together with the mortification of sin, and rising from sin to newness of life, by virtue of the death and resurrection of Christ;
Now. To my friend, reading these words, it looked like the BCO supports that infants who are baptized are considered full members and "saved", their sins being washed away.
I am trying to figure out how to explain to her that the PCA does not believe that infant baptism saves children, but that it baptises them into the covenant, and later on after they have professed faith and been examined by the elders, then they come forward to make a public confession and are baptised.
| To bring this thread back to its beginnings, (though the other discussion is fruitful!) I think all that needs to be done, as Fred pointed out, is that your friend should be directed to the language in the BCO again - it says "signifies" in each case - salvation is "signified", the cleansing from sin is "signified". There must always be retained a distinction between the sign (baptism) and the thing signified (salvation). Careful reading of the words there helps a lot, I think.
Your friend also should understand that when we baptize converts, we don't argue that the baptism has any other meaning than this self-same signification. The salvation and cleansing from sin that are brought through the covenant are signified in the sign of entrance into the covenant community. Convert or covenant child, there is no real distinction to be made - and the BCO reflects this.
__________________
Todd K. Pedlar
member, First Congregational Church, (CCCC) Cresco, IA http://semperubi.rtrc.net
"Many men, after a long conversion, see more of the workings of sin in their hearts than ever they did before or at their first conversion. Now, such men have not an increase of sin, but an increase of illumination and light" (Christopher Love)
Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions? | 
08-23-2005, 10:07 AM
|  | Puritanboard Graduate | | Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,910
Thanks: 8
Thanked 30 Times in 16 Posts
| |
Below is a short entry from Sproul Jr.'s website, which I think is appropriate. Quote: Repent and Believe
There may well be any number of arguments against the doctrine of covenant succession. Perhaps the recent release of To You and Your Children, a compilation of essays on that theme put together by Ben Wickner and published by Canon Press (and with a foreword by the present writer) will prompt someone to make some of those arguments. My limited focus today is not to make the case for or against covenant succession, but instead to answer one rather silly objection.
Baptists of varying stripes, though by all means not all Baptists, are concerned that if we treat our children as if they are believers, then we just might be preparing them for hell. How, some of my friends worry, will they ever become Christians if you donīt call them to repentance? They will go through life, my friends fear, never knowing that they are required to repent. Have you ever heard this argument?
At Saint Peter Presbyterian Church we are inclined to believe that our children believe, unless or until they show us otherwise. Does this mean then that we donīt call them to repent? Does this mean that we donīt call them to place their trust in the finished work of Christ alone? Does this mean that they arenīt called to turn from their sin, and to walk in humble obedience? Well, we certainly donīt think so. We believe that our children believe, which is rather a different thing from believing they have no need to believe.
If you were to come to worship with us, if you were to experience high Presbyterian liturgy, a covenant renewal service, what you would find could be seen, in a manner of speaking, almost like a Baptist tent revival. First, we are called by God to appear before Him. We begin with God calling us to appear, all of us, men, women and children. It is the Lordīs Day, the Day of the Lord when the Lord comes to inspect us. What will he find? A room full of sinners. This is why we respond to His call by confessing our sin, or to put it another way, by repenting. This too is for every man, woman and child. All Christians, whether theyīve been baptized yet or not, are called to repent. Next we hear the assurance of Godīs pardon, we respond in grateful thanksgiving by praising God in song. Then another curious thing happens. All of us, men, women and children, profess our faith together, either reciting the first question to the Heidelberg Catechism or singing together the Apostleīs or the Nicene Creed. There again we acknowledge our sins, and our dependence upon the grace of God.
Having confessed that we belong to Him, we listen then to His instructions, as the Word of God is preached. And then comes the altar call. No kidding. Every Lordīs Day everyone, man, woman and child, is called to come forward and either embrace Christīs work for the first time, or to rededicate their lives to Christ. Which one it is we donīt much care. Either way they are at peace with God. Of course we donīt call this an altar call. We call it celebrating the Lordīs Table.
Throughout our worship we are affirming the necessity of conversion. What we are denying is the necessity of a conversion experience. All must repent and believe, but not all must pinpoint a time, not all must face a conscious moment of crisis. "Dead orthodoxy" isnīt merely a problem for those who presume that they were saved from birth. It can likewise be a problem for those who presume that they were saved from their conversion experience onward. The key to fighting the error isnīt a moment of decision, but a perpetual decision, by Godīs grace, to repent and believe.
|
__________________
Scott Roberts
Ruling Elder, Lakeside Presbyterian Church (PCA)
Southlake, Texas
|  | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | |