Im not set on paedo-baptism yet. But I want to know why baptists dedicate there babies and if scripture instructs us to do so. I have nto seen it in scripture yet.

__________________
Nathan Olaf Brandal
First Baptist Church of Kirkland

"Man is nothing: he hath a free will to go to hell, but none to go to heaven, till God worketh in him to will and to do his good pleasure"
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Nathan,
In response to a internal need for the credo baptist to be obedient to Gods covenant, some credo baptists rip this passage out of context relating to Hannah's prayer to God. Proper hermeneutics reveals two things: 1) Hannah is submitting to leaving baby Samuel @ the temple for service w/ the Priests and 2) Hannah assuredly had the sign placed on baby Samuel on the eighth day. Dedication as Hannah's did not obstruct the trees for the forest! They knew the importance of the Abrahamic covenant. The credo that submits to this type of thing in light of rebelling against the command to place the sign (Gen 17) is doubly deceived as if they would do a simple study on the passage they would see that it has nothing to do with the way it is being used in their cases. I have never seen one parent leave their child with the Pastor of their congregations after the ceremony! IMO, it is an internal need of each and every credo parent to feel that their child is somehow in Gods grace even though their theology contradicts the premise. The paedo however, has a hope and that hope based upon Gods promise and covenant.

Previously discussed here: Child Dedication

__________________
Scott Bushey
Husband to Tina, father to Nicole, Danielle and Zoe
Member First Presbyterian Church of Margate PCA

Hello Nathan,

That was a question I always wondered when I was an evangelical. In my book on covenantal baptism, I "dedicate" a chapter to this topic, dealing with often cited texts for dedication—Samuel, Samson, John the Baptist, and even Jesus.

What was also interesting in researching, was that many churches in San Diego that dedicate children of professing believers do so on the basis of the same texts of Scripture that we use to explain their baptism—Genesis 17, 1 Corinthians 7, etc.

Here is a link to the book, Jesus Loves the Little Children, at Amazon:

__________________
Rev. Daniel R. Hyde
Pastor, Oceanside United Reformed Church, Carlsbad/Oceanside, California
Th.M. candidate, Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary

Awsome thank you brothers

Now Im slowly becoming more convinced of paedo-baptism. But it just seemed to me that BD is baptist alternative to PB.

In Christ,
Blade

And confirmation is the paedobaptist alternative to baptism.

Many if not most Reformed Baptist churches do not practice infant dedication because they see it as a violation of the Regulative Principle. Neither the church that I attend nor the Baptist church I attended previously had infant dedications.

Interestingly enough, infant dedication is also practiced in at least one PCA church. See page 6.
http://www.presbyteriannews.org/volumes/v6/5/pr6-5.pdf

__________________
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[IMGL]http://x18.xanga.com/b8cc2b4341633172177963/w130771430.gif[/IMGL][URL="http://www.harborpc.org/"]Harbor Presbyterian Church[/URL] (PCA)
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I'm with you on the confirmation thingy; To me, it is an inconsistency in light of the faith we place in Gods promise. We say, I believe this to be true, then we confirm; which really confirms nothing! To me, confirmation is baptistic.

In regards to the article; a generation or two from now, the PCA will no longer be the organization you see before you.

It's not an alternative, because in Scripture baby dedication is not commanded as a sign of entrance into the covenant community.

__________________
Josh Hicks, Chloë's Dad
Attending CCRPC, Member of TRBC
Reformers & Puritans -lllll- Puritan Pub
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What confessional Presbyterian church practices Confirmation? Just curious.

Confirmation is a Roman sacramental rite.

We do have education for communicant membership. And examination by Session. Like Jesus was examined by the church (Lk. 2:46ff) before his required attendance at the Covenant Meal (Ex. 23:17; 34:23f; Dt. 16:16).

__________________
Rev. Bruce G. Buchanan
ChainOLakes Presbyterian Church, CentralLake, MI


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I would just add that this "dedication" was a promise of placing Samuel under the Nazaritic vow - an ordinance of the Old Covenant that only could be made by someone within the Covenant. In this case it was made for the child by the parents with that pesky little notion that children are bound by vows that their parents make for them.

It must also be noted that Hannah did not precisely make the vow because a vow could not be ratified unless the husband approved it. Note that her husband commands her to keep the vow made. Yes it was her vow initially but was ratified by Elkanah in that he permitted the vow to stand.

The whole passage is Covenantal from A to Z and it is quite ironic that those who are trying to wrest themselves from any notion that their children stand in solidarity with them in the Covenant would use an example of a Naziritic vow as a justification for baby dedication!

__________________
Rich
Northern VA
PCA

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Care to elaborate on this? I think you're hinting at something, but I'm not sure what.

Ah, confessional Presbyterian church. I went to a PCUSA church in my teens, and they had confirmation, so I assumed that they all did. Apparently not.

The Reformed Church in the United States (RCUS) has confirmation. There are probably others.
http://www.rcus.org/main/pub_confirmation_handbook.asp

The church I used to attend practiced baby dedications. Whenever a dedication was performed, the pastor would always make a point of why they didn’t baptize infants. He would say that you couldn’t find infant baptism in the New Testament. He explained that what we do find elsewhere is the practice of infant dedication. He would then cite the OT verse that Scott posted above as evidence.

What I find interesting now about this line of reasoning is how this particular church made such an emphatic point to reject something because it is not found in the NT, yet turn around and embrace something else that is likewise not found in the NT either. And as was pointed out, the OT verse that is used by them to support baby dedication is taken out of context.

What I find as ironic with those who adhere to baby dedications is that they refer to the OT for the support of their belief, yet it is precisely when you begin in the OT that one arrives at exactly that which they reject, namely the inclusion of infants in the covenant and the administration of the covenantal sign.

__________________
~~Greg Carpenter~~
Deerfield Beach, FL

"It is a throne of grace that God in Christ is represented to us upon; but yet it is a throne still whereon majesty and glory do reside, and God is always to be considered by us as on a throne." –John Owen

Do we have any RCUS experts here? I'm certainly not one, but I would have a hard time believing that they practice confirmation as a sacrament, as opposed to using that term (which I would admit is confusing) for catechizing their children.

__________________
BJ Mora
Grace OPC, Modesto, CA
Reformed & Presbyterian Churches & Denominations in North America

The Constitution for the RCUS reads:

They do use the term 'Confirmation"

No Reformed church has any sacraments other than the two, to my knowledge. (And no Baptist church considers infant dedication an ordinance). I never said that Reformed churches practiced confirmation as a sacrament. All I meant was that having already-baptized children give a profession of faith that then allows them to partake in the Lord's Supper and fully participate in the New Covenant community is analogous to Adult Baptisms, which also is a profession of faith that allows them to partake in the Lord's Supper and identifies them as part of the New Covenant community.

While the biblical justification for infant dedication is not very strong, the evidence for a "confirmation" before partaking in the Lord's Supper is also not very strong, and it seems both traditions are grasping at each other's practices.

Yes, Scott...please spell it out for me...we need to know.

__________________
JC
URCNA
PA, but homesick for SC

"Who says you can't go back, been all around the world and as a matter of fact. There's only one place left I want to go, who says you can't go home" Bon Jovi

Do I really need to spell it out? This is no more than an assertion: The PCA is divided right now on the federal Vision issue. In time, there will be a split over this. A number of the body will head south over this. As well, a section of PCA churches are no longer reformed at all. The confession is no more than a piece of paper. Worship has digressed to the point that even woman are reading scripture from the pulpits. Music being used in the worship services has gone from the psalms & hymns, to contemporary everyday music. It is not difficult to see that in a generation or two the organization itself will no longer function under the auspices of biblical Calvinism.

Thread split: "Is the NEW really NEW or is it just Consummated?"

Is the NEW really NEW or is it just Consummated

How long has baby dedication been in practice?

Split off discussion on the PCA's subscription to the WCF here:

PCA and Confessional Subscription