Were you a dispey?

JM · #1 (**permalink**) 10-13-2006, 02:51 PM

Just wondering, were you a dispey before you were Reformed? What was it that brought you out of dispensationalism?

[Edited on 10-13-2006 by JM]

Blueridge Believer · #2 (**permalink**) 10-13-2006, 02:58 PM

I was saved in a dispy Baptist church. What brought me out was Romans 8,9 and 10 along with the book of Galatians. When I finally began to realize who the Israel of God was and the unity of Old testament saints in the same body with New testament believers the entire superstructure fell.

Ivanhoe · #3 (**permalink**) 10-13-2006, 03:06 PM

I became dispy in high school but really didn't like the despair it gave. I didn't like the idea of being raptured and not getting to go toe-to-toe with the antichrist. Just seemed too easy. I had a quasi-liberal amillennial professor give a partial preterist reading of Matthew 24. That gave me an excuse to get out.

Joshua · #4 (**permalink**) 10-13-2006, 03:22 PM

I was a dispensationalist, but I had no idea what the term meant. Funny enough, after becoming Calvinistic, it was both John MacArthur's inconsistencies and the complex hermeneutical gymnastics and demands of the dispensational systematic that showed me the great flaws of dispensationalism as a system. As far as eschatology goes, I still am not cemented on what I AM, but I know what I'm NOT.

Ambrose · #5 (**permalink**) 10-13-2006, 03:23 PM

I was a hard-core dispy! I first starting having trouble with some glaring eschatological inconsistencies and how certain dispy authors kept changing their interpretations to fit current events. Then I read a book by Woodrow called "Great Prophecies of the Bible", and kept slapping myself upside the head.

I also remember being quite shocked reading the notes to the Geneva Bible on Daniel's prophecies - "You mean the church hasn't always believed that this was about THE ANTICHRIST (TM) and THE GREAT TRIBULATION (TM) ??!!!"

SO I dispensed with rapturism first. Then I fell under the influence of the Christian Reconstructionists. Some say I've never recovered.

But the final straw, I think, was reading John Murray's "Christian Baptism", which pulled together a lot of previous reading and brought forth the light bulb moment when I realized I was officially no longer even a Reformed Baptist, let a lone a dispy.

Certain of my family members were concerned that I'd "miss the rapture" because I was "not looking for it". To which I replied "I WANT to be left behind!"

BobVigneault · #6 (**permalink**) 10-13-2006, 03:32 PM

I was attending a Seventh Day Baptist church and I was reading my way through the Left Behind series. I was so excited that I was finally understanding Revelation and I was seeing future history as it would soon happen. I was watching the horizon because I new that anti-christ was out there somewhere. We back in high school I had bought 10 copies of Satan Is Alive and Well and gave them go my friends. I'm sure I read Late Great Planet Earth as well.

I asked some married friends of our in the SDB church what they thought of the Left Behind series. I didn't know there was any alternative view. They said, it's not in the scriptures. I was incredulous. This guy was the smartest man I ever met and he said that the rapture was not in the scriptures. I said, of course it is. I began to search for all those elements I was so familiar with - the stinger missiles, meteors, upc codes and I couldn't find them in scripture. I was SHOCKED.

Finally I read DeMar's eye opening masterpiece, Last Days Madness. I was finally able to relax knowing that the scriptures were intact. Dispensationalism is just plain bad hermeneutics.

VirginiaHuguenot · #7 (**permalink**) 10-13-2006, 03:37 PM

I was once briefly a dispy. I was cured by God's grace through singing the Psalms.

Blueridge Believer · #8 (**permalink**) 10-13-2006, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BobVigneault
I was attending a Seventh Day Baptist church and I was reading my way through the Left Behind series. I was so excited that I was finally understanding Revelation and I was seeing future history as it would soon happen. I was watching the horizon because I new that anti-christ was out there somewhere. We back in high school I had bought 10 copies of Satan Is Alive and Well and gave them go my friends. I'm sure I read Late Great Planet Earth as well.

I asked some married friends of our in the SDB church what they thought of the Left Behind series. I didn't know there was any alternative view. They said, it's not in the scriptures. I was incredulous. This guy was the smartest man I ever met and he said that the rapture was not in the scriptures. I said, of course it is. I began to search for all those elements I was so familiar with - the stinger missiles, meteors, upc codes and I couldn't find them in scripture. I was SHOCKED.

Finally I read DeMar's eye opening masterpiece, Last Days Madness. I was finally able to relax knowing that the scriptures were intact. Dispensationalism is just plain bad hermeneutics.

I read Demar's last days madness myself here recently. Excellent book. I came out of hyper-dispensationalism and rabid KJV-onlyism. Studied under the great pope of Pensacola
Peter Ruckman. Google that dude if you want an eye opener.
Thank God for his grace is all I can say.

Ivanhoe · #9 (**permalink**) 10-13-2006, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Finally I read DeMar's eye opening masterpiece, Last Days Madness. I was finally able to relax knowing that the scriptures were intact. Dispensationalism is just plain bad hermeneutics.

Me and some others used to joke about Demar writing 1 book, 11 titles. But on a serious note, he might well be the late 20th century, early 21st century champion in showing people that they can tell their kids "You have hope for you and your children. God hasn't given this world to Satan, contra the pessimillenialist."

Kevin · #10 (**permalink**) 10-13-2006, 03:48 PM

Hello, my name is Kevin & I am a dispensationalist. I have been 'in recovery' now for 17 years.

Y'all are supposed to shout "we love you Kevin" now.

I also read the reconstructionist and that really put the nail in the cofin of my lingering dispism.

JM · #11 (**permalink**) 10-13-2006, 03:54 PM

Quote:

I came out of hyper-dispensationalism and rabid KJV-onlyism. Studied under the great pope of Pensacola
Peter Ruckman. Google that dude if you want an eye opener.
Thank God for his grace is all I can say.

Which hyper group were you with, Acts 9, 13, 15 or 28?

Blueridge Believer · #12 (**permalink**) 10-13-2006, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JM

Quote:

I came out of hyper-dispensationalism and rabid KJV-onlyism. Studied under the great pope of Pensacola
Peter Ruckman. Google that dude if you want an eye opener.
Thank God for his grace is all I can say.

Which hyper group were you with, Acts 9, 13, 15 or 28?

The Act's 2 group who taught faith and works salvation in the Old Testament and in the tribulation period. Works only salvation in the millennial reign. It all seems like a bad dream now.

BobVigneault · #13 (**permalink**) 10-13-2006, 05:13 PM

Hey Jacob, now that I think of it, it was on your recommendation that I started reading DeMar. Thank you friend. I ordered several of his books so I could get the flavor. I owe you a beer.

Quote:

Originally posted by Draught Horse

Quote:

Finally I read DeMar's eye opening masterpiece, Last Days Madness. I was finally able to relax knowing that the scriptures were intact. Dispensationalism is just plain bad hermeneutics.

Me and some others used to joke about Demar writing 1 book, 11 titles. But on a serious note, he might well be the late 20th century, early 21st century champion in showing people that they can tell their kids "You have hope for you and your children. God hasn't given this world to Satan, contra the pessimillenialist."

Devin · #14 (**permalink**) 10-13-2006, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by joshua
I was a dispensationalist, but I had no idea what the term meant.

Me too. I was big into Left Behind for a very short time...thankfully, God saved me out of that mess before I go too far in. :bigsmile:

Sadly, that was the atmosphere I was raised in, and I didn't think there was any other views out there. But then again, I thought the same thing about free will, and look what happened.

[Edited on 10-13-2006 by Devin]

turmeric · #15 (**permalink**) 10-13-2006, 07:07 PM

I didn't know about anything else until I learned about the dreaded Replacement Theologians who have a big green eye in the middle of their foreheads and eat their young...whoops! I meant wet their young..sorry!

jaybird0827 · #16 (**permalink**) 10-13-2006, 07:51 PM

I was heavily dispy for awhile. I got caught up in the Hal Lindsey trilogy / A Thief in the Night craze in the early 70's. I was sure things had gotten so bad by 1974 that that rapture was coming anytime. I had to warn everybody. They wouldn't listen, so I joined Campus Crusade where I got a lot of encouragement. Even though not all were dispy, a good many were.

I headed for the mission field in Africa. Those people would listen. They didn't.

I came back to the States and taught in Christian schools. I continued dispy and continued to be encouraged. Until one of my colleagues became interested in the Reformed understanding and kept telling me about. By that time, I was ready because I was beginning to see inconsistencies in the whole thing.

After studying the Confession and Catechisms and especially after working through G.I. Williamson's explanation of the various eschatological views, I started getting my head on straight.

One of the by-products of all this study was the realization that I understood the dispy's to be teaching that things would get so bad here that God would just have to rapture all of his people out in order to save them. I began to see from Scripture that this rapture wasn't going to happen until the return of Christ and that these dispy's were out of their tree.

:lightbulb:

When I finally began to understand the doctrine of the Perseverence of the Saints, it dawned on me that God's grace is sufficient for his people in all times. I found myself much more comforted that our God is so all-powerful as to preserve us than any comfort I had ever had from any hope that he would come and snatch us out at just the right time.

That's the short version.

pickwick · #17 (**permalink**) 10-13-2006, 10:58 PM

I was dragged kicking and screaming out of dispensationalism over the course of several years.

Instrumental to my changed convictions were a year-long study of Romans 1 - 11, books by Sproul and Pink, and a lot of thinking and praying.

PuritanBouncer · #18 (**permalink**) 10-14-2006, 12:02 AM

Wow, I believe I've told this story before but I kind of enjoy telling it so here goes.

My family is a very Godly family that taught me that Jesus Christ is Lord and must always come first no matter what. We never had a lot but we had what we needed, in other words, I have seen God work in me and my famalies lives for years and years.

I was very much attracted to "end times" teachings and felt that God had gifted me in undersstanding prophecy in a "special" way. I was able to teach it to others including adults when I was a teen! I was so pleased to be used of God in this way.

When Left Behind came out I was so overjoyed because I dreamed of a project like this for years. Of course in my dreams it was I who wrote it, but at least it was out there and I could use it in my teachings of others. I devoured those books from cover to cover including the "teen" series.

I was an all star poster over at www.raptureready.com and when I found Johm MacArthur's books on Lordship salvation I couldn't wait to share them with other posters at RR. Sadly many of them hated that teaching. I was hurt, angry, and shocked. Why wasn't this accepted over there the way Left Behind was? I mean making Jesus Lord of your life and not Lord in name only just made sense to me. I kept trying to build the case until I was BANNED!

I couldn't believe this was happening. I tried and tried to get back in using different names but eventually they knew who I was because of my arguments for Lordship Salvation and banned me again and again. I decided I would have to find a new online community and I found the PURITAN BOARD! I was thrilled! These people took Lordship salvation seriously. I studied these confessions you had to subscribe to in order to be admitted as a member and LOVED THEM! I had never seen anything like this. I thought to myself that if Rapture Ready had something like this it would be such a better place.

I submitted to the confession and joined the puritan board! I was shocked to discover that drinking was applauded. I mean I never thought social drinking was a sin, but for people to come to a Christian site and discuss alcohol shocked me to no end. It still shocks my mom

Then I found Paul Manata. This guy was saying stuff like the Tribulation weas in the past. Here was someone I needed to set straight! Someone I could share all my Left Behind knowledge with and show him the error of his ways. Paul was patient with me and didn't argue. He simply asked me to find specific and CLEAR scriptures on my views and I went off to do it. I tried to post a few things and he remained calm and friendly and asked me to elaborate on the issues I made. I couldn't do it.

I began to read more and realized that pretrib-postrib, and midtrib were not the ONLY three end times views in the Church. I was shocked. I mean what's A-Mill? What's Preterism? Do "Christians" actually believe this stuff? Are there that many other views?

Then my church began to be exposed to me. I was happy that I had been called a "Preciever". It was my spiritual gift to interpret God's word in a way to lead the church and it's pastors. Since prophecy was now over, "precievers" took the place of prophets and I was one! I went from being excited about that to worried because I couldn't find it in the bible.

FINALLY (sorry this is so long)

Someone asked in one of our bible studies..

"If a child is dragged off in the tribulation and forced to take the mark of the beast, will he still go to Hell?"

Our pastors and other members were stumped.

Finally I stuck up my hand and answered saying....

"Do you think that there is anyone in Hell that God wanted in Heaven and God looks upon this person in Hell, stomps His foot and says "Oh man! I wanted him up here!"

Everyone looked at me as if I had spoken in another language. NO ONE had ever considered that.

As I left that evening my pastor gave me a subtle warning about bringing up that "Calvinist stuff". I left that day and never returned. I sought out a PCA church, found one in my area and the rest is history! Thanks to Jacob as he's helped me process my eschatology since then as well. (I never knew what the word eschatology even was before the puritan board either!)

I was as hard core Dispy as one can get-now I am a postmill orthodox preterist! Praise God.

bfrank · #19 (**permalink**) 10-14-2006, 12:31 AM

I have always been reformed soteriologically and traditionally dispensational in the sense that I believed that there was a distinction between the Church and Israel.

I have never been caught up in the end times madness and have consistently been turned off by the "Left Behind" series. How about the bumper sticker: "In case of rapture, car will be unmanned"...silly. Do I believe that we live in a different world than our parents, that it is more flagrantly evil...yes, in certain circumstances that is difficult to argue against. However, I'm sure Sodom, Gomorrah, Tyre etc. were fairly nasty in their own right

Over the last year or so my beliefs in this area have been challenged. I've begun to study eschatology but have wearied. Aside from defining terms and watching/listening to each camp build straw men, I've gained nothing but skepticism for both sides...mainly the dispy side. I realize my lack of diligence for the subject and pray that the Lord would renew my strength.

So for now, I'm panmillenial. I do think there is one thing we can all agree on..."Come Lord Jesus, come quickly!" Amen.

Kevin · #20 (**permalink**) 10-14-2006, 08:38 AM

Great story Adam!

turmeric · #21 (**permalink**) 10-14-2006, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bfrank
I have always been reformed soteriologically and traditionally dispensational in the sense that I believed that there was a distinction between the Church and Israel.

I have never been caught up in the end times madness and have consistently been turned off by the "Left Behind" series. How about the bumper sticker: "In case of rapture, car will be unmanned"...silly. Do I believe that we live in a different world than our parents, that it is more flagrantly evil...yes, in certain circumstances that is difficult to argue against. However, I'm sure Sodom, Gomorrah, Tyre etc. were fairly nasty in their own right

Over the last year or so my beliefs in this area have been challenged. I've begun to study eschatology but have wearied. Aside from defining terms and watching/listening to each camp build straw men, I've gained nothing but skepticism for both sides...mainly the dispy side. I realize my lack of diligence for the subject and pray that the Lord would renew my strength.

So for now, I'm panmillenial. I do think there is one thing we can all agree on..."Come Lord Jesus, come quickly!" Amen.

Fortunately, we don't have to figure everything out right now. As for your last statement, I agree heartily! In my earlier post on this thread, I was trying to score some humor points.

What frosted Dispensationalism for me was my mom, who is a rabid post-trib Dispy. (Hey, at least she's post-trib!) She talks about Israel and the coming tribulation obsessively. She kept talking about the sacrifices being reisntated in the millennial kingdom until I almost literally lost my lunch one day. I just knew that was wrong but was afraid to give up dispensationalism.

Long story short, through various circumstances, God made me come to grips with the perfectionism I had been taught,(there's your no-lordship stuff, Adam.) rather than dealing with eschatology right away. When the perfectionism had been sufficiently deconstructed, the eschatology began to fall into place because I was freed of a legalistic superstitious approach to theology.

Anton Bruckner · #22 (**permalink**) 10-15-2006, 03:45 PM

I was always a dispy, but "this generation" was always unsettling for me. I read Matthew Henry's commentary on Matthew 24 and the system just crumbled.