» Site Navigation | | | » Online Users: 109 | | 28 members and 81 guests | | AltogetherLovely, Athaleyah, austinww, Brian Withnell, cbryant, Chaplainintraining, Covenant Joel, Curt, Daniel, Honor, Jesus is my friend, johnbugay, Michael Doyle, NateLanning, Piano Hero, PointingToChrist, refbaptdude, Richard Tallach, Romans922, tlharvey7 | | Most users ever online was 856, 07-06-2007 at 12:19 AM. | |  | 
04-17-2006, 12:48 PM
| | Inactive User | | Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 175
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
| | | John's Baptism and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit
I did not know where to post this but I believe the issue deals with dispensationalism and Covenant Theology.
John was sent as a fore-runner to Christ. I believe it is clear that John was a believer. And here is where I have a question about John's baptism.
In Acts 19 Luke tells us that those who had received John's baptism had not received that baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Did the people that responded to John's message not looking forward to their promised Messiah? If not then what is the purpose of repenting from sin in John's gopsel without turning to promised Christ? Or is this simply an example of an incident where these mean never truly exhibited true faith?
I understand that Pentecost had not taken place when they believed but did the Holy Spirit not regenerate them when they received John's baptism? I guess a better understanding of how the Holy Spirit indwelt believers in the Old Covenant would be helpful to this conversation. 
__________________
Brandon Addison
Member- Michiana Covenant Presbyterian Church
Granger, IN ([url]http://www.michianacovenant.org/[/url])
Attending and serving the youth @- Christ Church Pasadena Pasadena, CA ([url]www.christchurch.la[/url])
| 
04-18-2006, 08:14 AM
| | Inactive User | | Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 175
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
| | | | 
04-18-2006, 10:20 AM
|  | Moderator | | Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Wichita, Kansas
Posts: 4,130
Thanks: 272
Thanked 200 Times in 112 Posts
| |
__________________
Jeff Bartel
Mechanical Engineer
Member - Trinity Reformed Church - RPCNA
"To believe in the power of man in the work of regeneration is the great heresy of Rome, and from that error has come the ruin of the Church. Conversion proceeds from the grace of God alone, and the system which ascribes it partly to man and partly to God is worse than Pelagianism" (The Reformation in England (London, 1962), Vol. 1, p. 98) Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions? | 
04-18-2006, 01:13 PM
|  | Moderator | | Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Wichita, Kansas
Posts: 4,130
Thanks: 272
Thanked 200 Times in 112 Posts
| | | | 
04-18-2006, 01:49 PM
|  | Owner and Administrator | | Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Coconut Creek, FL (or wherever I am)
Posts: 4,959
Thanks: 3
Thanked 220 Times in 71 Posts
| |
Regeneration, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and the OT believer -
This may help: http://www.apuritansmind.com/Baptism...izationLaw.htm | 
04-24-2006, 08:32 AM
| | Inactive User | | Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 175
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
| | |
I recently asked a pastor of a PCA church I have been attending this same question and I was surprised by his response.
He stated that the men baptised into John's baptism were truly regenerated at John's baptism. But in order to be filled with the Spirit, they needed to have the baptism of Jesus Christ. I asked if they would have gone to be with Christ had they died and he answered with what I understood as an affirmitive answer.
Now to me that sounds like a charismatic response. A second blessing after being a believer. It is very possible that I have mis-understood what the pastor was saying but
Any thoughts?
| 
04-24-2006, 10:06 AM
|  | Pilgrim, Alien, Stranger | | Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: CentralLakeMI
Posts: 5,188
Thanks: 74
Thanked 3,360 Times in 1,187 Posts
| | |
There are only some 4 times where Acts records an extraordinary Spirit baptism. This is not normative, either for the church in Acts, or for today. Therefore, we need to study the incidents carefully to see what was significant enough about the incidents that God demonstrated his power in an extraordinary way.
The pastor you spoke with was probably not appealing to a "second blessing" but to the fact that Christians need a Christian baptism, a baptism by the Lord Jesus. You were baptized by the Lord Jesus. Did you know that? He actually baptized you inwardly with his Spirit in regeneration. He outwardly baptized you by his church.
The believers in Ephesus were already an anomaly, within 20 years or so of the cross. They were OT believers in a NT age. They were this way only because the NT good news of fulfillment of OT hope had not yet reached them. The Holy Spirit was always present to regenerate and assist believers in the OT, but he was not poured out in abundance. He did not "fill" but a few, usually for a special mission or office. But beginning at Pentecost, the Spirit fills all believers, and empowers all of us (old, young, men, women, remember Peter's exposition of Joel 2) as his NT servants.
Does this help clarify anything? If not, just ask again.
__________________ Rev. Bruce G. Buchanan
ChainOLakes Presbyterian Church, CentralLake, MI Made both Lord and Christ--Jesus, the Destroyer Acts 2:36 - 1 Cor. 10:9-10 & 15:22-26 - Hebrews 2:9-15 - 1 John 3:8 - James 4:12 When posting friends, kindly bear those words of earthly wisdom in mind:
Oh, that God the gift would give us
To see ourselves as others see us. --Robert Burns, 1786 (modernized) ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions? -- |  | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | |