Does anybody know if John Owens was or somwhat dispensational?

I read a quote from him that said that the "Lord's Prayer" was Old Testament Theology and not fit for Christians or for Christian Worship.

Any Thoughts?

Michael

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Michael Daniels
Reformed, RPCNA
Denton, Maryland

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You are referring to John Owen the Puritan right? He rejected the Lord's Prayer for use in worship on the grounds of the Regulative Principle of Worship. God did not command its use for worship. He did advocate its use as a model for personal prayer though. I think his RPW argument is wrong, but there was some diversity among the Puritans and Reformers as to how they applied the RPW.

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Patrick
MDiv, RTS Jackson
Pastor, Grace Presbyterian Church (OPC), Lisbon, NY

"He does well, that discourses of Christ; but he does infinitely better, that by experimental knowledge, feeds and lives on Christ." Thomas Brooks.
"Let us not please ourselves that we have deep understandings, but let us shew our understandings by our practice." Richard Sibbes

Yes the Puritan John Owens.. But then why would he call it Old Testament Theology and not fit for Christians?


Michael

Not trying to be too nit-picky, but there is no final "s" in John Owen's name.

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Richard T. Zuelch, M.Div
Ruling Elder, OPC (not currently serving)
Westminster Presbyterian Church, CA (OPC)
www.alexandermaclaren.wordpress.com
www.reiterations.wordpress.com
www.spurgeonswords.wordpress.com

Devout souls do not take offence at the depths and difficulties of God's Word, but are, thereby, drawn to intenser contemplation of them. - Alexander Maclaren (1826-1910)

Thanks Richard. That (s) was kinda buggin' me too.

To the original question. I would suggest that Owen's comment should be looked at in context, so a reference would be handy. Also, referring to a particular passage in the gospels as containing "OT theology" does not make him a dispensationalist -- although it sounds like something a classic dispy might have said.

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Jim
1689 LBCF
Independent Bible Church
North Texas, USA

Ok, Just shoot me.... I have never been that good at English and Spelling... LOL

Michael

Ok, I will find the quote from the book I was reading and Post it soon...


Michael

Here is the quote about John Owen and the Lord's Prayer...

It comes from Nick R. Needham in Chapter "Worship through the Ages" out of A Vision for Reforming Worship.

"Owen disapproved so vigorously of set prayer, which he feared would quench the Spirit, that he even argued stoutly against the use of the Lord's Prayer (it was an essentially Old Testament Prayer, he insisted, unsuitable for Christians living in the light of the postresurrection era).


Sounds like Dispensationalism to me, even along the lines of Isaac Watts and what he said about the Book of Psalms.

Does the author of the book site a reference for this statement? Or is he just basing this on opinion? Just curious where the author received this information.

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John
Member
Christ Presbyterian Church (OPC)
Salt Lake City, Utah
www.christpres.net

Brother, you still are not quoting Owen. You have simply taken someone's interpretation of Owen's work. Maybe you should try looking it up in Owen's work instead.

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soli Deo gloria!
~Nicholas~ Ordained Pastor
Member, Fulton PCA; GPTS Student
Christians are like snow covered dung; it is the purity of the covering which the Father sees. -Luther-
There is nothing more ugly than a Christian orthodoxy without understanding or without compassion.
-Francis Schaeffer-

I cannot find any reference for this statement of his.

I also do not know enough of John Owen, or access to his works to find out where he might have said this...

Michael

I've read Owen's arguments against the use of set prayers for public worship, and I agree with them in the main, but I have never read a statement from him that would support what Needham asserts regarding the Lord's Prayer.

__________________
Adam J. Myer
Slated for the Jan. 10th Chaplains Basic Officer Leadership Course
Estacada Christian Church
Sandy, Oregon

Soli Deo Gloria

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Chris
Presbyterian Reformed Church of Charlotte (PRC)
Student, Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary
SC

...hope is nothing but the nourishment and strength of faith.
~ Calvin's Institutes III.ii.43

By the way, there's a nice three-part biography of Owen at the Banner of Truth website. Go to www.banneroftruth.org and click on "articles".