John Owens

Coram Deo · #1 (**permalink**) 04-18-2007, 08:43 AM

Does anybody know if John Owens was or somwhat dispensational?

I read a quote from him that said that the "Lord's Prayer" was Old Testament Theology and not fit for Christians or for Christian Worship.

Any Thoughts?

Michael

Puritan Sailor · #2 (**permalink**) 04-18-2007, 08:52 AM

You are referring to John Owen the Puritan right? He rejected the Lord's Prayer for use in worship on the grounds of the Regulative Principle of Worship. God did not command its use for worship. He did advocate its use as a model for personal prayer though. I think his RPW argument is wrong, but there was some diversity among the Puritans and Reformers as to how they applied the RPW.

Coram Deo · #3 (**permalink**) 04-18-2007, 08:53 AM

Yes the Puritan John Owens.. But then why would he call it Old Testament Theology and not fit for Christians?

Michael

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritan Sailor

You are referring to John Owen the Puritan right? He rejected the Lord's Prayer for use in worship on the grounds of the Regulative Principle of Worship. God did not command its use for worship. He did advocate its use as a model for personal prayer though. I think his RPW argument is wrong, but there was some diversity among the Puritans and Reformers as to how they applied the RPW.

bookslover · #4 (**permalink**) 04-18-2007, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunaer

Yes the Puritan John Owens.. But then why would he call it Old Testament Theology and not fit for Christians?

Michael

Not trying to be too nit-picky, but there is no final "s" in John Owen's name.

Gomarus · #5 (**permalink**) 04-18-2007, 10:27 AM

Thanks Richard. That (s) was kinda buggin' me too.

To the original question. I would suggest that Owen's comment should be looked at in context, so a reference would be handy. Also, referring to a particular passage in the gospels as containing "OT theology" does not make him a dispensationalist -- although it sounds like something a classic dispy might have said.

Coram Deo · #6 (**permalink**) 04-18-2007, 10:29 AM

Ok, Just shoot me....

I have never been that good at English and Spelling... LOL

Michael

Quote:

Originally Posted by bookslover

Not trying to be too nit-picky, but there is no final "s" in John Owen's name.

Coram Deo · #7 (**permalink**) 04-18-2007, 10:30 AM

Ok, I will find the quote from the book I was reading and Post it soon...

Michael

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gomarus

Thanks Richard. That (s) was kinda buggin' me too.

To the original question. I would suggest that Owen's comment should be looked at in context, so a reference would be handy. Also, referring to a particular passage in the gospels as containing "OT theology" does not make him a dispensationalist -- although it sounds like something a classic dispy might have said.

Coram Deo · #8 (**permalink**) 04-18-2007, 10:49 AM

Here is the quote about John Owen and the Lord's Prayer...

It comes from Nick R. Needham in Chapter "Worship through the Ages" out of A Vision for Reforming Worship.

"Owen disapproved so vigorously of set prayer, which he feared would quench the Spirit, that he even argued stoutly against the use of the Lord's Prayer (it was an essentially Old Testament Prayer, he insisted, unsuitable for Christians living in the light of the postresurrection era).

Sounds like Dispensationalism to me, even along the lines of Isaac Watts and what he said about the Book of Psalms.

Blue Tick · #9 (**permalink**) 04-18-2007, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunaer

Here is the quote about John Owen and the Lord's Prayer...

It comes from Nick R. Needham in Chapter "Worship through the Ages" out of A Vision for Reforming Worship.

"Owen disapproved so vigorously of set prayer, which he feared would quench the Spirit, that he even argued stoutly against the use of the Lord's Prayer (it was an essentially Old Testament Prayer, he insisted, unsuitable for Christians living in the light of the postresurrection era).

Sounds like Dispensationalism to me, even along the lines of Isaac Watts and what he said about the Book of Psalms.

Does the author of the book site a reference for this statement? Or is he just basing this on opinion? Just curious where the author received this information.

nicnap · #10 (**permalink**) 04-18-2007, 10:57 AM

Brother, you still are not quoting Owen. You have simply taken someone's interpretation of Owen's work. Maybe you should try looking it up in Owen's work instead.

Coram Deo · #11 (**permalink**) 04-18-2007, 11:10 AM

I cannot find any reference for this statement of his.

I also do not know enough of John Owen, or access to his works to find out where he might have said this...

Michael

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Tick

Does the author of the book site a reference for this statement? Or is he just basing this on opinion? Just curious where the author received this information.

Archlute · #12 (**permalink**) 04-18-2007, 01:51 PM

I've read Owen's arguments against the use of set prayers for public worship, and I agree with them in the main, but I have never read a statement from him that would support what Needham asserts regarding the Lord's Prayer.

mangum · #13 (**permalink**) 04-18-2007, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archlute

I've read Owen's arguments against the use of set prayers for public worship, and I agree with them in the main, but I have never read a statement from him that would support what Needham asserts regarding the Lord's Prayer.

bookslover · #14 (**permalink**) 04-18-2007, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gomarus

Thanks Richard. That (s) was kinda buggin' me too.

To the original question. I would suggest that Owen's comment should be looked at in context, so a reference would be handy. Also, referring to a particular passage in the gospels as containing "OT theology" does not make him a dispensationalist -- although it sounds like something a classic dispy might have said.

By the way, there's a nice three-part biography of Owen at the Banner of Truth website. Go to www.banneroftruth.org and click on "articles".