I'm feeling cheated!

**BobVigneault** · #1 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 02:21 PM

If it wasn't enough that I crossed over into the reformed camp and now I can't find pleasure in all those praise and worship songs. I mean, what was more enjoyable than singing zippy songs and swaying and clapping and then getting softer and singing with expression and maybe shedding a tear as the piano moved to the higher keys. It was exhilarating.... but now it's gone. Now I sing from the Trinity Hymnal (sorry EPers) I know that makes you cringe a bit.

But leaving dispensationalism just before all hell breaks lose in the worlds of politics and finance, well.....

I feel like I sold off a cheap stock just before it skyrocketed into a major investment.

I was talking about this with Bill Brown yesterday. I remember the adrenaline rush as I would read of the rise of Henry Kissinger or Javier Solana and was so sure I was watching the anti-Christ set the stage for tribulation and armageddon. I was sure that the craze to get tattoos was a plot to prepare people to take the mark of the beast on their hands or foreheads.

Now I watch my old Evangelical Zionist friends wake up each day with a new alarmist headline to digest. They email and blog in shrill tones and they really believe they are part of the terminal generation about to watch the Left Behind series play out in real life.

I miss that. It is such a seductive feeling of gnostic importance. Only WE knew the true meaning of the headlines. We would run to our Bibles and make the text dance to the tune of the headline. If it refused to dance then we would apply secret codes to the text and make it give up it's hidden morsels of 'truth'. It was as if God was taking us aside because we, the gnostics, were more mature and ready to hear what was going on in the back rooms of heaven. "Pssst, come here, the Chinese are buying up horses... I think we know why."

Everyday we would read the Jerusalem Post to see if there was going to be a march on the Temple Mount. "Psst, there is a group of orthodox rabbis that are raising red heifers, wink, wink."

Anyone else missing the excitement of interpreting the scriptures through today's headlines?

Let's try to support one another.

et · #2 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobVigneault

If it wasn't enough that I crossed over into the reformed camp and now I can't find pleasure in all those praise and worship songs. I mean, what was more enjoyable than singing zippy songs and swaying and clapping and then getting softer and singing with expression and maybe shedding a tear as the piano moved to the higher keys. It was exhilarating.... but now it's gone. Now I sing from the Trinity Hymnal (sorry EPers) I know that makes you cringe a bit.

But leaving dispensationalism just before all hell breaks lose in the worlds of politics and finance, well.....

I feel like I sold off a cheap stock just before it skyrocketed into a major investment.

I was talking about this with Bill Brown yesterday. I remember the adrenaline rush as I would read of the rise of Henry Kissinger or Javier Solana and was so sure I was watching the anti-Christ set the stage for tribulation and armageddon. I was sure that the craze to get tattoos was a plot to prepare people to take the mark of the beast on their hands or foreheads.

Now I watch my old Evangelical Zionist friends wake up each day with a new alarmist headline to digest. They email and blog in shrill tones and they really believe they are part of the terminal generation about to watch the Left Behind series play out in real life.

I miss that. It is such a seductive feeling of gnostic importance. Only we knew the true meaning of the headlines. We would run to our Bibles and make the text dance to the tune of the headline. If it refused to dance then we would apply secret codes to the text and make it give up it's hidden morsels of 'truth'. It was as if God was taking us aside because we, the gnostics, were more mature and ready to hear what was going on in the back rooms of heaven. "Pssst, come here, the Chinese are buying up horses... I think we know why."

Everyday we would read the Jerusalem Post to see if there was going to be a march on the Temple Mount. "Psst, there is a group of orthodox rabbis that are raising red heifers, wink, wink."

Anyone else missing the excitement of interpreting the scriptures through today's headlines?

Let's try to support one another.

ODDLY, like many here on the PB I was Disp. at one point, and like I say, the weird thing is, it was strangely exiting in those days to look at headlines, and try to apply them to Scripture!

BUT, in my defense I always liked puzzles and word games and pretty much any game that allowed me to "link" ideas and concepts, SO, as a Disp. it was along those lines, if that makes sense.

**Herald** · #3 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 02:30 PM

Bob,

I've thought long and hard about our conversation and really do think that we are missing out on what can be our golden moment. What with the coming of the Euro, the European Common Market, Barack Obama likened to a messianic character, the threat of Iran - we could well be into the final eschatological generation. I feel cheated. I gave up on my dispensationalism to soon. You and I are missing out on all the fun.

You have my support.

Josh G · #4 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobVigneault

"Psst, there is a group of orthodox rabbis that are raising red heifers, wink, wink."

I actually heard a sermon on that once. Instead of looking for Christ's return he made it a point to look for the "spotless" red heifer, and once they have that heifer we know Christ is on His way.

SemperEruditio · #5 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 02:32 PM

Not me but my wife sure is. My take on all the end time stuff was that as long as I was ready then I didn't need to keep up to speed with the signs. Right? I presented that to my inlaws and was met with

They said that I had to keep up with the times so I could see the end coming. I swore the rapture would happen as the clock struck midnight on Dec 31, 1999. After that everything has been gravy. Now that I is Refermed I am back to not worrying about it.

My wife....well...she has to deal with it EVERYDAY! She talks to someone in her family at least once a day and the topic of "Did you see the news about....you know what that means....shoooo we gotta get our lives right....I can't believe we are going to be the last generation...." I retort with "I can't believe it either!"

**Herald** · #6 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh G

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobVigneault

"Psst, there is a group of orthodox rabbis that are raising red heifers, wink, wink."

I actually heard a sermon on that once. Instead of looking for Christ's return he made it a point to look for the "spotless" red heifer, and once they have that heifer we know Christ is on His way.

Makes you want to go get a can of red spray paint and do a John Hagee.

**BobVigneault** · #7 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 02:37 PM

At least for a day, let's forget that we are no longer pre-tribbers. Let's gorge ourselves on guessing, speculate on special revelations and practice headline hermeneutics (ok, I'm out of alliterations.)

Ahh for the old days. Here is a golden oldie. I'm going to go get my Hal Lindsey from under the couch leg and hold it close while I watch this old favorite.

YouTube - A THIEF IN THE NIGHT (THEME)

**BobVigneault** · #8 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 02:40 PM

Same here Frank. My wife's family is hard core. I just nod politely while they prognosticate. To tell the truth, now and then I throw them and bone and tell them of some unrest on the Temple Mount, in case they missed it. I love the look of excitement on their faces.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemperEruditio

Not me but my wife sure is. My take on all the end time stuff was that as long as I was ready then I didn't need to keep up to speed with the signs. Right? I presented that to my inlaws and was met with

They said that I had to keep up with the times so I could see the end coming. I swore the rapture would happen as the clock struck midnight on Dec 31, 1999. After that everything has been gravy. Now that I is Refermed I am back to not worrying about it.

My wife....well...she has to deal with it EVERYDAY! She talks to someone in her family at least once a day and the topic of "Did you see the news about....you know what that means....shoooo we gotta get our lives right....I can't believe we are going to be the last generation...." I retort with "I can't believe it either!"

a mere housewife · #9 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh G

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobVigneault

"Psst, there is a group of orthodox rabbis that are raising red heifers, wink, wink."

I actually heard a sermon on that once. Instead of looking for Christ's return he made it a point to look for the "spotless" red heifer, and once they have that heifer we know Christ is on His way.

Holy cow.

**BobVigneault** · #10 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 02:44 PM

Heidi, you don't say much but when you do... it's pure GOLD!

(Bill don't embarrass yourself by making a pun about a golden calf. Just don't do it. You too Max!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by a mere housewife

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh G

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobVigneault

"Psst, there is a group of orthodox rabbis that are raising red heifers, wink, wink."

I actually heard a sermon on that once. Instead of looking for Christ's return he made it a point to look for the "spotless" red heifer, and once they have that heifer we know Christ is on His way.

Holy cow.

SemperEruditio · #11 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobVigneault

To tell the truth, now and then I throw them and bone and tell them of some unrest on the Temple Mount, in case they missed it. I love the look of excitement on their faces.

Oooooooooo...your so bad!!

I remember the day my inlaws called hysterical because their flight number was 666. Oh my! After much prayer and then alcohol they finally boarded the plane....of course not until the entire family was on a conference call about repeating the sinners prayer like we were praying the rosary for at least 30 minutes.... I'm sure one of those got prayers got through.

Augusta · #12 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 02:53 PM

You can't make me go back Bob!!

Classical Presbyterian · #13 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 02:58 PM

Ah, reminds me of my beloved grandparents of blessed memory! My grandma watched the news with her well-marked KJV Bible on her lap. She sat at the edge of her chair when the Soviet Union used to threaten Israel, when we liberated Kuwait and so many other times.

I was never a Dispie. I fell for theological liberalism for a time, but never that one. Yet, just as I never accepted the pre-mill dispie teachings, I still wish I could sit on my grandparents burnt orange couch and watch Van Impe with them one more time...

Knoxienne · #14 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobVigneault

At least for a day, let's forget that we are no longer pre-tribbers. Let's gorge ourselves on guessing, speculate on special revelations and practice headline hermeneutics (ok, I'm out of alliterations.)

Ahh for the old days. Here is a golden oldie. I'm going to go get my Hal Lindsey from under the couch leg and hold it close while I watch this old favorite.

YouTube - A THIEF IN THE NIGHT (THEME)

It's too late to change your mind...

Oh, those embarrassing days gone by.

Richard King · #15 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 03:07 PM

Man Bawb nailed it.
Been there, done that.
Waited for a perfect red heffer.
Watching the headlines as if they were prophetic secret messages.
Storing things for the tribulation
and worst of all listening to expert after expert after 'annointed' expert on what God is telling us that he didn't put in the Bible.

Loved the music.
Bought tons of praise music to listen to every day to keep my buzz going.
Looking back if I had taken the money I spent on Hal Lindsey books and Prophesy Club Videos and donations to any speaker who put on a beanie to tell me about Israel... I would have showed more stewardship helping people who live on my block. Or visiting with a lonely elderly person.

Even now I have a friend who is building large classrooms and meeting places on his rural land for men to gather "when the time comes" and yet he cannot interact well enough to gather two men together for discussion in the here and now. His belief...when the time is right, men will be ready for his teaching and leadership. He doesn't grow anything or produce anything on the land. It just sits in wait for the end times.
And he feels it is nearer than ever (which if you think about it is not all that profound...it would have to be)
yep these have to be dispy boom days right about now.

***VictorBravo*** · #16 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a mere housewife

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh G

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobVigneault

"Psst, there is a group of orthodox rabbis that are raising red heifers, wink, wink."

I actually heard a sermon on that once. Instead of looking for Christ's return he made it a point to look for the "spotless" red heifer, and once they have that heifer we know Christ is on His way.

Holy cow.

I used to raise Red Angus cattle. I had lots of spotless red heifers every spring. If I'd only known, I could have cashed in!

**BobVigneault** · #17 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 03:09 PM

Yeah, Jack Van Impe, he does it so well. He has that excited look in his eyes.

I've always thought that Rexella was cute... even at 112 or whatever she is now.

Come on Traci, come back. Maybe our friends over at RaptureReady.com can entice you. Here is the Armageddon Clock. There are only two minutes left!!!!!!!!! TWO MINUTES!!!!! And that was before Obama was elected!!!

Quote:

Armageddon Clock
The overview and timeline for the Armageddon Clock:

The Armageddon Clock, unlike the Doomsday Clock, moves ever forward. Each tick of its second hand --the nation Israel, and the issues and events of Bible Prophecy-- brings the world nearer the starting point of what will be man's most horrific war. The Armageddon Clock marks Antichrist's confirming the false peace covenant described in Daniel 9:27. The signing of that covenant will initiate the Tribulation era (Daniel's Seventieth Week. That great conflict will culminate with the Second coming of Jesus Christ back to Planet Earth. The on-going timeline of issues and events leading to that moment are:
1800s: 30 minutes to midnight

Although Jews have been returning to the land of promise a few at a time since their last scattering, it wasn't until the 1800s that they started going home in significant numbers. Jews were in the majority in the area by 1880. Large portions of land were purchased, bringing about more and more rural Jewish communities. As the Zionist movement gained backing, plans were made to return on a widening scale.
1914: 25 minutes to midnight

The Jewish population reached 85,000 by the time World War I began in 1914. This compared to only 5,000 populating the land early in the previous century.
1917: 20 minutes to midnight

British Foreign Secretary Arthur J. Balfour issued on behalf of England, the Balfour Declaration on November 17, 1917. The Balfour declaration indicated approval of the Jewish goal of bringing about a Jewish state in Palestine.
1939: 17 minutes to midnight

Adolf Hitler and the Nazis carried out persecution against all Jews within Hitler's sphere of influence. While Hitler, along with the Arab enemies of the Jews in Palestine turned up the heat of persecution against the Jewish race, the British, the controlling authority in Palestine, developed a White Paper, severely restricting Jewish immigration.
1940-1945: 15 minutes to midnight

Adolf Hitler's Germany perpetrated genocide upon the Jewish race, during which more than 6 million Jews were murdered in the holocaust.
1947: 12 minutes to midnight

Dead Sea Scrolls found at Qumran, validating much of Old Testament writings. Jewish leadership plan a return to Zion (Jerusalem) for purpose of establishing a nation.
1948: 8 minutes to midnight

Israel reborn as a nation on May 14, 1948. Jews back in their Promise Land, just as prophesied for the last days by all Bible prophets.
1952: 7 minutes to midnight

In November, the United States tests its first hydrogen bomb on Elugelap island. The bast was equal to 10.4 megatons, 700 times the power of Little Boy.
1957: 6 minutes to midnight

The Treaties establishing the European Economic Community (EEC) and the European Atomic Energy Community (Euratom) are signed by the Six (Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands) in Rome as of today they will be referred to as the "Treaties of Rome".
1967: 5 minutes to midnight

On June 5 the six-day war begins: Israel destroys the Arab air forces; captures land three times the area of itself; and most importantly, the Jewish people win the right to free control the city of Jerusalem for the first time in over 2000 years.
1999: 4 minutes to midnight

In January of 1999 eleven European Union countries begin using the euro as their common currency.
2002: 3 minutes to midnight

European leaders hammered out an agreement to bring 10 new countries into the European Union. Most of the new members will be former Soviet eastern block states.
2004: 3 minutes to midnight

Years of rapid growth in the Chinese economy has caused the eastern giant to become a major competitor for the earth's scarce resources. China's growing dependence on oil will cause its interests to focus more on the Middle East.
2005: 3 minutes to midnight

The 2005 Atlantic hurricane season was the most active Atlantic hurricane season in recorded history. Records were set in the most number of storms - 28, the most reaching hurricane strength - 15, and the most reached Category 5 strength - 4. Hurricane Katrina was the most destructive, and hurricane Wilma was the most intense hurricane ever observed in the Atlantic basin.

2008: 2 minutes to midnight

You would have to go back to the days before Pearl Harbor to find a more pronounced state of apathy about dangers facing the world.

Josh G · #18 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 03:16 PM

Don't forget about the Middle East Invasion Map!
http://www.jvim.com/invasion.htm

**BobVigneault** · #19 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 03:17 PM

Thanks Josh, good idea.

SemperEruditio · #20 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 03:50 PM

Shame on all of you!

Re4mdant · #21 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Augusta

You can't make me go back Bob!!

Good one, why would you want to...?

-----Added 2/19/2009 at 03:59:39 EST-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemperEruditio

Shame on all of you!

100%

a mere housewife · #22 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 04:04 PM

Oh goody. All the prophetic paraphernalia. Is it callous to eat popcorn while we wait for it all to go down?

**Herald** · #23 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemperEruditio

Shame on all of you!

Don't fight it. Join the fun.

Hamalas · #24 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 04:10 PM

**BobVigneault** · #25 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 04:14 PM

Come on, it's the first annual "Dispy For A Day" celebration.

Zenas · #26 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 04:14 PM

Bawb what are you talking about? These are the end times. Email me and I'll give you the code to decipher Revelation. You wouldn't believe who Obama actually is or what his name spells when reversed, you add the letters "S" "t" and "n", and drop a few other unneeded consonants.

**BobVigneault** · #27 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 04:21 PM

I KNEW IT!!!!

Not only that, but when you spell his middle name frontwards it is the name of Mohammad's horse and that would certainly make him one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse. How did I miss that before?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zenas

Bawb what are you talking about? These are the end times. Email me and I'll give you the code to decipher Revelation. You wouldn't believe who Obama actually is or what his name spells when reversed, you add the letters "S" "t" and "n", and drop a few other unneeded consonants.

**DMcFadden** · #28 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 04:22 PM

If I dig far enough into the closet, maybe I can pull out my old Salem Kirban's Guide to Survival in kivar. I am old enough to have trekked over to Westwood and heard Hal talk to a group of kids at a Bible study during the J.C. Light and Power Company days when he was just a Campus Crusade staffer before he became Hal Lindsay (i.e., prior to the publication of Late Great Planet Earth!!!). Back then the sun rose with Hal and set with R.B. Thieme of the Berachah Bible Church.

Here is one of Thieme's signature pieces . . .

Zenas · #29 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 04:24 PM

You're onto something there Bawb. Be careful so that you're not discovered.

**BobVigneault** · #30 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 04:26 PM

Dennis, you are tempting the board wags into another round of 'you're so old' jokes at your expense. Just thought I'd warn you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMcFadden

If I dig far enough into the closet, maybe I can pull out my old Salem Kirban's Guide to Survival in kivar. I am old enough to have trekked over to Westwood and heard Hal talk to a group of kids at a Bible study during the J.C. Light and Power Company days when he was just a Campus Crusade staffer before he became Hal Lindsay (i.e., prior to the publication of Late Great Planet Earth!!!). Back then the sun rose with Hal and set with R.B. Thieme of the Berachah Bible Church.

JBaldwin · #31 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 04:26 PM

Bob, I don't miss it a bit. There's enough going on to get me upset without having to add the dispy into it. Hehehe

Augusta · #32 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a mere housewife

Oh goody. All the prophetic paraphernalia. Is it callous to eat popcorn while we wait for it all to go down?

As long as we have our lamps trimmed and ready I think some popcorn would be ok. Here share mine.

**Herald** · #33 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobVigneault

Come on, it's the first annual "Dispy For A Day" celebration.

Who's the Grand Marshall for the parade? Matthew Winzer?

OPC'n · #34 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobVigneault

At least for a day, let's forget that we are no longer pre-tribbers. Let's gorge ourselves on guessing, speculate on special revelations and practice headline hermeneutics (ok, I'm out of alliterations.)

Ahh for the old days. Here is a golden oldie. I'm going to go get my Hal Lindsey from under the couch leg and hold it close while I watch this old favorite.

YouTube - A THIEF IN THE NIGHT (THEME)

I know there's a support group for you guys somewhere.

I actually do remember this song. LOL!!!!!!

historyb · #35 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 07:51 PM

What if rapture ready is....swoosh!

(poster went tin rapture

)

steven-nemes · #36 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 08:01 PM

Personally, I have been voting in favor of all Pro-Gay Marriage and all Pro-Choice and Pro-Evolution in Schools bills, so as to quicken the coming of Christ...

Did I cross the line?

Theognome · #37 (**permalink**) 02-19-2009, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zenas

Bawb what are you talking about? These are the end times. Email me and I'll give you the code to decipher Revelation. You wouldn't believe who Obama actually is or what his name spells when reversed, you add the letters "S" "t" and "n", and drop a few other unneeded consonants.

Yes, the end must be near, for Obama's middle name is Hussein. Saddam's last name was Hussein also. Plus, Saddam spelled backwards is maddas! Proof in the pudding!

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobVigneault

(Bill don't embarrass yourself by making a pun about a golden calf. Just don't do it. You too Max!)

I wouldn't dream of doing something so overtly Samaritan.

Theognome