The plight of Arab christians

This unfortunate group of people is caught in the middle of tensions between Jews and Muslims. While many Christian Arabs sympathize politically and culturally with their fellow Arabs over the Jewish people, they nonetheless are often targets of scorn from Arab Muslims. What is most shocking, however, is that Christians of Arab descent are non-issues in the minds of most Western Christians. Arab believers are most notably ignored by many Christians in America who believe fervently in the dispensational, pre-tribulational, premillennial view of Bible prophecy.

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Psa 55:16 As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me.
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James Farley
Husband of Melissa and father of Ann.
Members of Redeemer Church ARP, Blacksburg Va.
http://www.redeemerblacksburg.org/

Maybe we should ask these folks

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John
Member
Christ Presbyterian Church (OPC)
Salt Lake City, Utah
www.christpres.net

This is a very sad situation. My wifes uncle was a missionary in Palestine (Bible Pres) for years and he told many stories of American Christians who would come to his town and would not go to church with Palestinian christians because they were told by (Jewish) tour guides that they "were all terrorists".

He said that thousands of local christians would be worshipping in their local churches while the Americans would hold a service in the hotel to pray for the Israeli army to kill all the Arabs so that "Jerusalem would have peace".

The stories he told about American Christian indiference would make you feel sick.

These brothers suffer from all sides; Israeli, & Muslem persecution and western Christian indifference.

We should remember to pray for them.

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Kevin Rogers
Sovereign Community Church, PCA
Moncton NB

When I look back at the years I spent spewing forth the doctrines of dispenstionalism one emotion comes over me time after time. SHAME.

I find some of this to be broadbrushing. Yes, I can understand the Christians believing the tour guide out of ignorance (thinking that the Arab Christians must surely be siding with the other Arabs due to background...common issue amoung men). However, when I was a dispensational, we NEVER prayed the Arabs would "be killed so the Jews could have peace"!!! We prayed for the "Peace of Jerusalem" (however that would come about) and we prayed for the salvation of all those involved. Voice of the Martyrs, I believe, even put out articles about the Arab Christians and that was a highly recommended periodical amoung the dispys. Seems like some of this is assumptions or stretches. Concern for Israel being seen as aggression against the Arab Christians. Perhaps the tour guide never mentioned these Arabs were Christians.

I can see a million scenarios playing out as to the whats and whys of the situation.

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JC - PCA - PA...homesick for SC
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You bring out a good point dear lady, but I believe he is pointing this article toward the Hagee/Falwell types.

Thank you, Mr. Farley...I'm not familiar with Hagee and Falwell very much, they are a bit on the funnyfarm side. The more fundamental dispensationals take missions to various cultures seriously regardless of political persuasian.

I also admit, I can understand how this appears to the Arab Christians and the minister. I'm just saying that there is much misunderstanding on both parts involved. It would help if there were those that would seek to go and come back and speak with these churches here. I know the Presbyterian missions seem to be pretty good about that.

The sad thing is that most dispys do not if ever acknowledge Arab Christians. They are seen as second class Christians. Much of the same way as Reformed Christians are viewed in America by popular evangelicals.

We have more in common with Arab Christians than a non-believing Jew. They are our brothers and sisters in Christ! What upsets me about dispensationalism is the absolute worship and idolatry of Israel and Jewish people.

The question that I propose to dispensational Christians is this: How can God bless the nation of Israel when, as a whole the entire nation curses his son?
Orthodox Jews in Israel will not even pronounce the name of Jesus they use a derogatory term to refer to him.

This topic hit close to home for me because 5 years ago when I went to Israel all I saw was a worship of Jewish people from dispy Christians. As a result of their foolish zeal to support Israel on its civil issues; dispys have done more to hinder the gospel in the Middle East than to spread it.

I'm with LadyFlynt on this one. I've known many dispensationals who do not support Christian Zionism, and recognize that unbelieving Jews are enemies of the gospel even if they believe that they are in some sense beloved in the eyes of God (Romans 11:28). It is unfair to characterize dispensationalism or dispensationalists this way.

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Actually what really shocks me is that there are a LOT of North American Christians (Reformed, Dispy, you name it), who not only are unaware of the plight of Palestinian Christians, but are unaware they exist! They think they are all Moslem. Part of it is the fault of mainstream media, they always or almost always present problems as Jewish/Moslem. Not that North American Christans are foolish mind you! Many simply do not know about that aspect.

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et

Mr. Crim hit the nail on the head. It's not an ignoring thereof, but rather ignorance on the part of many that such exists. The people are not always to blame for their ignorance. It helps when mission boards and others (like VM) speak up and inform others of such an existance.

What Arab Christians?

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Bob Vigneault C.O.L, L.E., G.E, Dr.O.P., O.U.T.
The Heartbeat of Heaven (blog)
Deacon/Christ Presbyterian Church, Janesville, WI OPC www.christ-opc.org

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My wife's family are rabid evanjellyfish zionists. I just stay quiet in order to keep the peace (what little I see of them).

Once I said, "I'm not a dispensationalist." My father-in-law BELLERED back. "YOU ARE TOO A DISPENSATIONALIST!!".

That's the last time I broght that up. In fact, now, every time there's a protest or fist fight at the temple mount I print out the story and bring it to him. He get's so excited and is sure that Christ is about to return any minute. He thanks me profusely. He's an old man. This is easier.

What facts do you have to back up this assertion?

I know firsthand of missionary minded dispensationalists who have a deep abiding love for their Arab brethren. Did you know that the Plymouth Brethren have made a great impact for the gospel in Egypt? I have met many of these brothers and sisters who have been lovingly accepted by their brothers in the West.

I'll make an assertion myself, and as proof I would be happy to cite more than a few posts on the PB. The assertion? There is such a strong anti-dispensationalist and anti-Israeli sentiment with some PB posters that they are wont to throw accusations against the wall and hope that they will stick in the absence of evidence. Brethren, this ought not be! If you have factual evidence to present then do so. If not, be careful lest you be found to be slandering a brother or sister in Christ.

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Bill Brown
Elder
Reformed Baptist
Maryland

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Lady Flint,

I think my wifes (late) uncle was frustrated by the fact that American Christians would not even acknowledge the persecution he was seeing from 2 sides--because in their minds Arab=bad, Jew=good with no ability to recognise that these were brothers in Christ.

He would be greeted with enthusiasm by the America Christian tourists until they found out his ministry was (primarily) to Arabs & Palistinians and not to "Gods Chosen People".

I know that there are pleanty of dispys who don't hold this view--He was one himself(!), but the fact remains that this is a huge blind spot for many western christians.

Not enough, certainly. I will try to keep them in my prayers now.

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My name is Davis. I am the Lord's.

I gather with saints at Bethel Presbyterian Church here in Lake Charles, LA, where I live.

[b][SIZE="3"]"[/SIZE][/b][COLOR="RoyalBlue"]I dwell in the high and holy place, also with him that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones[/COLOR].[b][SIZE="3"]"[/SIZE][/b] -Our Father, the Lord God (Isaiah 57:15)

I was citing first hand accounts of a life-long missionary family. Does that count as factual?

Kevin, you accused dispensationalists as a whole. You said "most dispies." How can you build a case against an entire group based on one experience? Lady Flynt was right. Broad brushes are being used. Let's hope no one uses the same standard of criticism against Reformed theology.

Sorry Bob.........the YOU ARE TO A DISPENSATIONALIST.........is well too funny! My Father in Law believes much the same as yours does, I do the same as you......I never discuss it.

I'm sure there are some dispy's who support the Arab christians brother Bill. Of that I have no doubt. Can you name me one prominant dispy though who does not believe that physical Israel is the seed of Abraham and that the Body of Christ and the seed of Abraham are two different things? The ones I am in contact with here in my area are ate up with dual covenant theology.
Now I know that there are dispy lites out thier like Macarthur who would not go there but among dispys of various denominations they are the minority.

Ok, I should re-phrase my position and statement. I apologize for the broad brush please forgive me.

In my circle of friends, acquaintances, and dispy Bible teachers that I have personally been exposed to there seems to be a lack of consideration for Arab Christians. In order to gather factual evidence this would take some time for me to compile. My statement should have been worded this way, as a whole there seems to be little emphasis on Arab Christians in the circles that I am familiar with. Obviously, this may not be true for other such dispensationalists and this is where I was wrong in my statement.

Grace and Peace

Arab Christian Groups Villify Israel

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Andrew

I confess that I seldom think about Arab Christians and i'm no longer a dispy.

One humbling moment for me came when my car was broken down here in Texas and AAA sent a tow truck and the guy on the phone had a distinct middle eastern accent and was having difficulty finding me.

I was getting annoyed and impatient inside with the delay, when he arrived he was a middle eastern man who popped my hood and looked at me and asked to my surprise "Are you a Christian, brother?"

I said yes and answered what church I attended and then he fixed my car quickly and said "Me too, I was born in Bethlehem."

I shook his hand and he drove off, honestly looking at him I never would've guessed he professed to be a Christian.

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:detective:
Travis Speegle
Redeemer Presbyterian, PCA (Waco, Tx)
Pacific Cross Roads, PCA (Los Angeles, CA)


"When it comes to trustworthy theologians one can usually honor the rule of thumb that the deader the better."-Dr. John Hannah, DTS (of all places)

Thanks for the link brother. Hardly without it's pro-Israel after the flesh stance though.

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=50

A Brief History of CAMERA

The Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America, or CAMERA, was founded in Washington, DC in 1982 by Winifred Meiselman, a teacher and social worker. Mrs. Meiselman formed CAMERA to respond to the Washington Post’s coverage of Israel’s Lebanon incursion, and to the paper’s general anti-Israel bias. Joining CAMERA’s Executive Board in the early days were such prominent Washington-area residents as Saul Stern and Bernard White. Win also recruited an Advisory Board which included Senators Rudy Boschwitz and Charles Grassley, Congressman Tom Lantos, journalist M. Stanton Evans, Ambassador Charles Lichenstein, Pastor Roy Stewart, and Rabbi David Yellin.


A very interesting read indeed.

CAMERA is a zionist lobby group. It criticises Palstinian Christians for criticising Israel for persecuting them because they do not also criticise Arab governments who have serious issues with the Jewish state. that is abit like criticising Chinese christians for offering criticism of the Bejing regime with out balancing that with a criticism of Americas Two-China policy.

True, but not relevent to the issue at hand.

Let me restate then, Bill.

Based on my personal experience as a student at 2 dispensational Universities, at several dozen dispensational "Bible Prophecy" (sic) conferences, based on many conversations with family members who served as missionaries in Palestine for decades, based on my degree in Biblical Studies from a dispensational school, based on attending 3 years of "south-Wide Baptist Fellowship", based on 15+ years of reading every month several dispensational magazines & newsletters, based on reading over 100 popular and scholarly (sic) dispensational books on "Prophecy & the Mid-East", based on working for 10+ years as a consultant specialising on "Evengelical Christians and the religious right" for Republicans and Independants, based on several semesters worth of courses on evangelism, jewish evangelism, and dispensationalism, based on many scores of hours spent at the library of the world headquarters of a Jewish mission agency reading the publications of that board and its missionaries, based on my familiarity of the sociological litt. about "American Bible Christians" i.e. dispensationalism, AND further based on my native good sense and powers of observation I would say;

That it is a fair and acurate summation of dispensationalism, as popularly held, by evangelical American Christians, that an unbelieving Israeli trumps a Believing Arab or Palestinian 9 times out of 10!

I'm well aware of CAMERA's efforts to bring balance to the coverage of Israel in the media, and thankful for them. The article I cited shows examples of Arab Christian distortion of the truth, and I note that no one is attempting to show that the article is factually incorrect. If we love the truth, we ought not to turn a blind eye to Arab Christian (or National Council of Churches) anti-Israel propoganda while condemning dispensational pro-Israel propoganda.

Arabic Christians (these terms need to be fleshed out, by the way, since not all Middle Eastern or Palestinian "Christians" are Arabic nor are they all by any means Protestant - there are Greek Catholic, Roman Catholic, Coptic, Marionite, Greek Orthodox and many other types) would do themselves a great favor by condemning Islamic terrorism / PA policies at least half as loudly as they do Israeli policies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Christian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Christians

Christian bookstore bombed by terrorists (April 15, 2007)

That made me chuckle.

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Josh Hicks, Chloë's Dad
Christ Covenant Reformed Presbyterian Church, RPCGA
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It is God that multiplies our sorrows.... God, as a righteous Judge, does it, which ought to silence us under all our sorrows; as many as they are, we have deserved them all, and more: nay, God, as a tender Father, does it for our necessary correction, that we may be humbled for sin, and weaned from the world by all our sorrows; and the good we get by them, with the comfort we have under them, will abundantly balance our sorrows, how greatly soever they are multiplied. - Matthew Henry

I care about them, the Muslims and the Jewish people there. How about you? How many Reformed Christians besides myself give a rip about the plight of Jewish people and the plight of Muslims? Sometimes, I feel like I am alone in the world. I hope I am not.

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Joseph Botwinick, Band Director
Second Baptist Church, Jacksonville, Arkansas, Southern Baptist Convention
Sherwood, Arkansas
Romans 7:14-25
http://botwinick.wordpress.com/

The same way God blessed all of us who were dead in our sin and at emnity with God. By his grace.

Romans 3:9-18

Ephesians 2:1-9

Regardless of whether or not all, most or even some dispensationalists believe about Arab's, the sad fact of the matter is that in the mind of Arab's, Protestant of every stripe means Israel-loving, Arab-hating Christians.

The reason I know this is because my girlfriend and her family are from Egypt, and her best friend and her family are Palestinian. Whether or not it is true, they have an idea that Protestants think Arabs are second class citiznes... I know this is not what most people believe in America, but there are those who are vocal do suggest such things... As a result, the Gospel is hindered because of this understanding of Protestantism form "Arabs"

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Brandon Addison

Member- Michiana Covenant Presbyterian Church
Granger, IN ([url]http://www.michianacovenant.org/[/url])

Attending and serving the youth @- Christ Church Pasadena Pasadena, CA ([url]www.christchurch.la[/url])

James - I have no qualms about criticizing dispensationalism. I came out of it and I'm still wondering where I am and where I'll wind up. My bone of contention is the lumping of most dispensationalists in the same mold. They're not all the same. There may be some dispensationalists who are unaware of Arab Christians, but that can be said about other nationalities. I have a hard time with judging an entire group in the absence of factual evidence.

John - I appreciate your willingness to reword you statement. I know that is hard to do. I've struggled with it at times, so I thank you.

I wonder how much disinterest of Arab Christians is due to ignorance? I would be dismayed if there was an intentional slight of Arab brothers just because they are Arab. Ignorance is another matter. What we don't see equals non-existent.

Kevin, everything after this statement (above) is just reinforcement of the same. I think you're suffering from anti-dispensationalist myopia. Funny. I'm no longer a dispensationalist, and I'm a frequent critic of my former theological system. But I don't see what you see. In fact, I've seen quite the opposite. I've seen Arab brothers in Christ embraced warmly and sweet fellowship ensue. BTW...my theological training is similar to yours. I've sat under the teaching of some of the "in crowd" of dispensationalism. I never heard (nor sensed) that Arab Christians were inferior, either by statement or implication. I guess we both sat under these teachers on different days.

You know the original question is just an excellent question.

I am guilty of not even thinking of them.

You have done me a great service by bringing them to mind.

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Richard H. King
Providence PCA
Lubbock, Texas
You know what my main problem is? I start things but rarely finish anyth...

When I was a teenager and first getting my license, my driving instructor was a guy names Sam Mirza, born in Jerusalem and a member of St. Mark's of Antioch Orthodox Church, and gave me a tour of his church. They still worship in Aramaic! They've been on my mind since then.

But Bill's got one heck of a point. I do think that we have a tendency to get so anti-dispy that it clouds our judgment many times, as we reject anything that looks even mildly dispensational. While we are willing to tear apart Christian brothers' theology and subsequently talk of heresy (if they are not reformed enough), we are now taking in wholesale Maronites, Copts, Greek Orthodox, etc. (who embody almost all of what we see wrong with the Roman Catholic church) and giving them a stamp of approval. I just don't follow.

It's one thing to reject dispensationalism but another to move to this position simply because it is anti-dispensational. I do grieve for the Christians in the middle east. They are a brave remnant of what was, even 1300 years ago, a Christian land. They are mostly poor - those with the means to go have left long ago. And I don't think that you could find a suicide bombing against an Israeli target by anyone other than a Muslim, though (I've read) between 15-20% of the West Bank is Christian.

But let's not go overboard.

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Kevin, husband of a truly angelic woman, and father to ten.
Zion United Reformed Church of Sheffield
Ontario, Canada

This is what I thought at first, too, but then I realized what Blue Tick wrote was about God blessing a nation. It would shock and grieve me for any Christian to say, "How can God bless a person when that person curses God's Son?" because such were some of us, and God did bless us by washing, justifying and sanctifying us (1 Cor 6:9-11).

However, he was not writing about God blessing a person, but rather about a nation. I think that makes a huge difference.

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jenney
Reformed Baptist
CA