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Dispensationalism discuss Dispies ignore the fact that Hal Lindsey..... in the Covenant Theology forums; Has been married four times while at the same time he wrote books that apply Christianity to them.I asked some of them today if it ...

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    Average Joey's Avatar
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    Dispies ignore the fact that Hal Lindsey.....

    Has been married four times while at the same time he wrote books that apply Christianity to them.I asked some of them today if it would bother them if their pastor were to divorce and remarry multiple times.I`m sure they`ll ignore the question.
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    LadyFlynt is offline. Inactive User
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    GASP! I had NO idea!
    JC - PCA - PA...homesick for SC
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    Indicabo tibi o homo quid sit bonum, et quid Dominus requirat a te: Utique facere iudicium, et diligere, misericordiam, et sollicitum ambulare cum Deo tuo. Michaeas 6:8

    "Who says you can't go back, been all around the world and as a matter of fact. There's only one place left I want to go, who says you can't go home" Bon Jovi

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    voided user1 is offline. Inactive User
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    Honestly, I don't know any Dispeys that reference Hal Lindsey or even realize he exists.
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    Almost every dispie I know not only knows of Hal, but refrences him often. The more "aware" dispies know of his ills and cleverly avoid him, but your average fundamental dispie still enjoys his works and refrences them often especially his TV show.

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    Originally posted by houseparent
    Almost every dispie I know not only knows of Hal, but refrences him often. The more "aware" dispies know of his ills and cleverly avoid him, but your average fundamental dispie still enjoys his works and refrences them often especially his TV show.
    Indeed - my grandma watches his "Intelligence Briefing" like it's the news gone holy.
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    my grandma watches his "Intelligence Briefing" like it's the news gone holy.


    Don't mean to laughChris but I found that hillarious!

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    VirginiaHuguenot is offline. Puritanboard Librarian
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    C'mon...you mean that not everyone here on the PB is already currently signed up to receive daily prophetical news briefs from the "late great" Hal Lindsey???

    http://www.hallindseyoracle.com/

    It's a sad but common tale that leaders in the broadly Christian community today often divorce:

    http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/divorceis.htm

    Andrew

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    ReformedWretch's Avatar
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    A perfect example of how much Hal is listened to by dispies;

    http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=182503

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    LadyFlynt is offline. Inactive User
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    Checked my bookshelves...fortunately for his books, they weren't on them
    JC - PCA - PA...homesick for SC
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    Indicabo tibi o homo quid sit bonum, et quid Dominus requirat a te: Utique facere iudicium, et diligere, misericordiam, et sollicitum ambulare cum Deo tuo. Michaeas 6:8

    "Who says you can't go back, been all around the world and as a matter of fact. There's only one place left I want to go, who says you can't go home" Bon Jovi

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    Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
    ........

    It's a sad but common tale that leaders in the broadly Christian community today often divorce:

    http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/divorceis.htm


    Wow. Some of the names listed on this link are:
    Charles Stanley, well-known Southern Baptist pastor and former president of the SBC, recently went through a divorce. When the news was announced to the First Baptist Church of Atlanta in May, the newly divorced pastor received a standing ovation from the congregation. The wife of Ned Graham, son of Billy Graham, divorced him on the basis of "œinfidelity, domestic violence, and drug and alcohol abuse." Ned is head of East Gate Ministries, which distributes Bibles in China, and he continues to be supported in that capacity by his famous father. Well-known Christian author Hal Lindsey has been divorced multiple times. Bob Larson is divorced. Many others could be mentioned.
    Sandi Patty, Deniece Williams, Sheila Walsh, John Talbot, Randy Stonehill, Larry Norman, Tom Howard, Ralph Carmichael, Steve Archer, Amy Grant and Gary Chapman (both Amy and Gary have gotten remarried since their 1997 divorce), Stacy Jones of the rap group Grits, and all of the members of the now disbanded Barnabas. Melody Green, widowed wife of Keith Green (who was killed in a plane crash in 1982), recently divorced her second husband, Andrew Sievright.

    CHARISMATICS
    Divorce is also rampant among Pentecostal-Charismatic leaders. Aimee Semple McPherson, founder of the Four Square Pentecostal Churches, was a divorced adulteress, as was famous Pentecostal evangelist Kathryn Kuhlmann. Richard Roberts, who is in the process of taking over the ministry of his father, Oral, divorced his first wife and married a Oral Roberts University student. Jim and Tammy Bakker divorced and are both remarried. In July of this year, two well-known Charismatic pastors got divorces (Ray McCauley of Johannesburg, South Africa, and Clarence McClendon of Los Angeles). John Jacobs, founder of the Power Team, was divorced from his wife of 16 years this summer. Hundreds of other Charismatics could be mentioned.

    FUNDAMENTAL BAPTISTS
    Sadly, some elements of the fundamental Baptist movement are also guilty in this matter. Pastor Peter Ruckman of Pensacola, Florida, is twice divorced and thrice married yet remains in the pastorate and mocks anyone who believes he is disqualified.

    -What ever happened to being 'salt and light' (Matt 5:13ff) and Christians looking different than the rest of the world?
    Beth
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    voided user1 is offline. Inactive User
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    I came from a more conservative, less ethically challenged version of Dispie evidentally. Never heard of him till this board...
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    Average Joey's Avatar
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    Originally posted by bond-servant
    Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
    ........

    It's a sad but common tale that leaders in the broadly Christian community today often divorce:

    http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/divorceis.htm


    Wow. Some of the names listed on this link are:
    Charles Stanley, well-known Southern Baptist pastor and former president of the SBC, recently went through a divorce. When the news was announced to the First Baptist Church of Atlanta in May, the newly divorced pastor received a standing ovation from the congregation. The wife of Ned Graham, son of Billy Graham, divorced him on the basis of "œinfidelity, domestic violence, and drug and alcohol abuse." Ned is head of East Gate Ministries, which distributes Bibles in China, and he continues to be supported in that capacity by his famous father. Well-known Christian author Hal Lindsey has been divorced multiple times. Bob Larson is divorced. Many others could be mentioned.
    Sandi Patty, Deniece Williams, Sheila Walsh, John Talbot, Randy Stonehill, Larry Norman, Tom Howard, Ralph Carmichael, Steve Archer, Amy Grant and Gary Chapman (both Amy and Gary have gotten remarried since their 1997 divorce), Stacy Jones of the rap group Grits, and all of the members of the now disbanded Barnabas. Melody Green, widowed wife of Keith Green (who was killed in a plane crash in 1982), recently divorced her second husband, Andrew Sievright.

    CHARISMATICS
    Divorce is also rampant among Pentecostal-Charismatic leaders. Aimee Semple McPherson, founder of the Four Square Pentecostal Churches, was a divorced adulteress, as was famous Pentecostal evangelist Kathryn Kuhlmann. Richard Roberts, who is in the process of taking over the ministry of his father, Oral, divorced his first wife and married a Oral Roberts University student. Jim and Tammy Bakker divorced and are both remarried. In July of this year, two well-known Charismatic pastors got divorces (Ray McCauley of Johannesburg, South Africa, and Clarence McClendon of Los Angeles). John Jacobs, founder of the Power Team, was divorced from his wife of 16 years this summer. Hundreds of other Charismatics could be mentioned.

    FUNDAMENTAL BAPTISTS
    Sadly, some elements of the fundamental Baptist movement are also guilty in this matter. Pastor Peter Ruckman of Pensacola, Florida, is twice divorced and thrice married yet remains in the pastorate and mocks anyone who believes he is disqualified.

    -What ever happened to being 'salt and light' (Matt 5:13ff) and Christians looking different than the rest of the world?
    In the case of Charles Stanley,I have heard he tried hard to keep from divorcing his wife.He even left the ministry afterwards but was begged to come back by his congregation.He prayed much about it and is repentant of what happened.

    I am happy about Amy Grant and her husband getting back together.I didn`t know about that.
    Joe Burgess
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    Olive Branch,MS

    "Eighty and six years have I served Him, and He never did me any injury: how then can I blaspheme my King and my Saviour?" - St. Polycarp

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    We've discussed Charles Stanley elsewhere on this board. Check it out. It is worth a rereading.
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    I am happy about Amy Grant and her husband getting back together.I didn`t know about that.
    I believe the comment about them both "getting remarried" was in regard to them each marrying someone new.

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    Average Joey's Avatar
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    Originally posted by houseparent
    I am happy about Amy Grant and her husband getting back together.I didn`t know about that.
    I believe the comment about them both "getting remarried" was in regard to them each marrying someone new.
    :P
    Joe Burgess
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    just_grace is offline. Puritanboard Freshman
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    Divorce

    I suffered an unwanted divorce, it nearly destroyed me. In fact an unwanted divorce will rob you of almost everything.
    I will not go into the details here but I certainly would not want to go through it again.

    Not sure if I will marry again, even though I have it on authority from the Lord Himself that I am free to marry again.

    Once bitten and all that...

    God hates divorce and I do too
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    ( Act 15 )

    ps;

    O yeah, and don't forget to keep the Sabbath...do this and you will insult the Grace of God. Farewell.

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    Average Joey's Avatar
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    Originally posted by houseparent
    A perfect example of how much Hal is listened to by dispies;

    http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=182503
    It`s so sad to read that.Especially,considering they kept telling me that they donnot follow or look up to him.They remind me of politicians.

    [Edited on 1-21-2005 by Average Joey]
    Joe Burgess
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    bigheavyq is offline. Puritanboard Freshman
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    I don't know what the problem with his lifestyle is. it far less tainted than Scofield's is. Lindsey is just following in the footsteps of the giants of dispensationalism.
    Jonathan Qualls
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    LadyFlynt is offline. Inactive User
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    Okay, someone tell me about Scofield....he was THE authority when I was growing up....
    JC - PCA - PA...homesick for SC
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    Indicabo tibi o homo quid sit bonum, et quid Dominus requirat a te: Utique facere iudicium, et diligere, misericordiam, et sollicitum ambulare cum Deo tuo. Michaeas 6:8

    "Who says you can't go back, been all around the world and as a matter of fact. There's only one place left I want to go, who says you can't go home" Bon Jovi

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    Originally posted by LadyFlynt
    Okay, someone tell me about Scofield....he was THE authority when I was growing up....
    I had a Scofield Bible for a while in my teenage years...what's the story?
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    [LEFT][SIZE=2][FONT=Book Antiqua][COLOR=black][SIZE=2][FONT=Book Antiqua][COLOR=black]"As a single footstep will not make a path on the earth, so a single thought will not make a pathway in the mind. To make a deep physical path, we walk again and again. To make a deep mental path, we must think over and over the kind of thoughts we wish to dominate our lives." ~ Henry David Thoreau[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=2][FONT=Book Antiqua][COLOR=black][/LEFT]
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    BlackCalvinist's Avatar
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    Now now.... don't throw stones at Hal over his divorce. Over on our side, we have our own Gerstners to deal with.

    (btw, I don't condone his divorces either)
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    Originally posted by houseparent
    I am happy about Amy Grant and her husband getting back together.I didn`t know about that.
    I believe the comment about them both "getting remarried" was in regard to them each marrying someone new.
    Amy is now "happily" married to Vince Gill.
    Tom Albrecht
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    As for me, I realize there are personal issues with leaders of various stripes. I have known plenty of Dispensationalists that don't subscribe to the Hal Lindseys of the world. Just because these people are hermeneutically challenged doesn't mean we need to unilaterally villify their character. Ad hominem never has quite done it for me.
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    My issue with dispensationalists is this.

    Most of them that I have encountered completely write off any opinion that is not dispensational! I have offered prrof text after proof text to countless friends and family who are dispensational that they have no answers for, but they are not moved in any way by that.

    I am very concerend by that.

    I also believe that dispensationalism could be another gospel. They have two plans of redemption, hold to animal sacrafices returning, and a few other heretical beliefs that pervert the scriptures into something that frightens me.

    Many people I love dearly are hard core dispensationalists thus my concern.

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    Average Joey's Avatar
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    Originally posted by houseparent


    I also believe that dispensationalism could be another gospel. They have two plans of redemption, hold to animal sacrafices returning, and a few other heretical beliefs that pervert the scriptures into something that frightens me.
    The scariest above is TWO plans of redemption.That is heretical.We have to consider that in the Bible it says those in the OT were saved by the same thing faith in Christ:

    Job 19:25 For I know [that] my redeemer liveth, and [that] he shall stand at the latter [day] upon the earth:
    Joe Burgess
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    Plus those who believe the Holy Spirit will not be on the Earth during the Tribulation and to be saved you will have to treat Jews good to prove your salvation.

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    Average Joey's Avatar
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    Originally posted by houseparent
    Plus those who believe the Holy Spirit will not be on the Earth during the Tribulation and to be saved you will have to treat Jews good to prove your salvation.
    I didn`t know about that part.I have heard that they still have to believe in Christ.

    Ah,but there is a huge hole in their theory.

    1Cr 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that]no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.[/color]
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    Originally posted by houseparent
    Most of them that I have encountered completely write off any opinion that is not dispensational!
    But don't a lot of reformed folks do the same thing ? I've seen it on this forum!

    They have two plans of redemption
    No they don't. This charge has been floating around for decades and it needs to die. Ryrie answered it in 65 and again in 94 with his revised 'Dispensationalism' (updated version of Dispensationalism Today). Chafer, who was presbyterian, answered it REPEATEDLY in print when challenged and provided plenty of clarification to his comments. No revised dispensationalist (which is most of what's walking around today) or progressive dispy can be legitimately charged with teaching two ways of salvation!

    And yes, I've read Gerstner's 'Wrongly Dividing' and have several anti-dispy books on my shelves which DO make some good points against traditional or classic dispensationalism. Problem is.... 90% of folks today aren't classic dispensationalists. They fall under the 'revised' category (1950-1990) or they're in the new 'third generation' of dispy writers like Ice, Thomas, Frutchenbaum, MacArthur and others. Ryrie has clearly stated:

    "Even as recently as 1991 John Gerstner aired this charge again. However, Vern Poythress doe snot raise the issue at all. that there are two ways of salvation appears to be a conclusion that nondispenationalists have tried for decades to dforce on dispensationalists, for even earlier dispensationalists did not teach what they are charged with. Nevertheless, the attack persists despite repeated denials on the part of dispensationalists. It's almost as if antidispensationalists do not want to hear what is being said because it is more convenient to attack the so-called 'logical' conclusions they force on dispensationalism." (pp. 106, 94 edition of 'Dispensationalism')

    Chafer himself clearly rejected such an idea here:

    "Are there two ways by which one may be saved ? In reply to this question it may be stated that salvation of whatever specific character is ALWAYS the work of God in behalf of man and never a work of man in behalf o God. This is to assert that God never saved any one person or group of persons on any other ground that that righteous freedom to do so which the Cross of Christ secured. There is, therefore, but ONE way to be saved and that way is by the power of God made possible through the sacrifice of Christ." ( L.S. Chafer, "Inventing Heretics Through Misunderstanding," BibSac 102 (Janaray 1945) p. 1).

    So can we give this nonsense a rest now ? God isn't glorified when lies are propogated.
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    BlackCalvinist's Avatar
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    Originally posted by houseparent
    Plus those who believe the Holy Spirit will not be on the Earth during the Tribulation and to be saved you will have to treat Jews good to prove your salvation.
    Can you give a reference where a legit dispy author teaches that, Adam ?

    I have most of the 'standard' dispensational eschatalogical works on my shelves (including J.D. Pentecosts' "Things to Come" and Willmington's abridged version of it called "The Coming King") and none of what you say above is true.

    What IS said is that the RESTRAINING INFLUENCE of the Holy Spirit will be taken away, not the Spirit Himself (because He is omnipresent). Tribulation saints are 'washed in the blood of the lamb' in the same way that non-trib saints are (btw, I don't believe in some separation of 'tribulation saints' from 'the church' as in the classic dispy view, but I *do* believe in representing someone else's viewpoint accurately and truthfully).

    Now maybe some of the quacks like the Lalondes or Hagee may teach this nonsense....but how much academic credibility do they get ? It's easy to attack the nuts who claim similar eschatology.
    KG
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    Originally posted by OS_X
    Originally posted by houseparent
    Plus those who believe the Holy Spirit will not be on the Earth during the Tribulation and to be saved you will have to treat Jews good to prove your salvation.
    Can you give a reference where a legit dispy author teaches that, Adam ?

    I have most of the 'standard' dispensational eschatalogical works on my shelves (including J.D. Pentecosts' "Things to Come" and Willmington's abridged version of it called "The Coming King") and none of what you say above is true.

    What IS said is that the RESTRAINING INFLUENCE of the Holy Spirit will be taken away, not the Spirit Himself (because He is omnipresent). Tribulation saints are 'washed in the blood of the lamb' in the same way that non-trib saints are (btw, I don't believe in some separation of 'tribulation saints' from 'the church' as in the classic dispy view, but I *do* believe in representing someone else's viewpoint accurately and truthfully).

    Now maybe some of the quacks like the Lalondes or Hagee may teach this nonsense....but how much academic credibility do they get ? It's easy to attack the nuts who claim similar eschatology.
    Yes it is probably Hagee who is teaching this.Sadly this view is growing.
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    BlackCalvinist's Avatar
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    Hagee's a nutjob, though. It's unfair to lump ALL dispensationalists in with him, the Lalondes, Hal Lindsey, etc.... folks like MacArthur decry this type of nonsense, and they hold to dispy eschatology.

    Just leveling the playing field. Too often I hear my wonderful reformed brethren bashing dispensationalism down their nose, but we have our own hypercalvinists to deal with. It would be unfair to lump them in with 'all Calvinists' when discussing predestination (like the folks at Calvary Chapel do). Let's lead by example.
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    Originally posted by OS_X
    Hagee's a nutjob, though. It's unfair to lump ALL dispensationalists in with him, the Lalondes, Hal Lindsey, etc.... folks like MacArthur decry this type of nonsense, and they hold to dispy eschatology.

    Just leveling the playing field. Too often I hear my wonderful reformed brethren bashing dispensationalism down their nose, but we have our own hypercalvinists to deal with. It would be unfair to lump them in with 'all Calvinists' when discussing predestination (like the folks at Calvary Chapel do). Let's lead by example.
    But unlike the hyper-calvinist camp, it is the "nutjobs" within the dispensational camp that make the headlines. They are the ones writing the books that are being bought (Left Behind??). They are the ones running the "prophecy conferences." They are the ones on television and radio pushing their extreme dispie views.

    They appear to be in control of the message.

    MacArthur may have the correct message, but he is in the dispie minority. In fact he gotten slammed pretty hard by his fellow dispies on a number of issues.
    Tom Albrecht
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  33. #33
    ReformedWretch's Avatar
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    Originally posted by tcalbrecht
    Originally posted by OS_X
    Hagee's a nutjob, though. It's unfair to lump ALL dispensationalists in with him, the Lalondes, Hal Lindsey, etc.... folks like MacArthur decry this type of nonsense, and they hold to dispy eschatology.

    Just leveling the playing field. Too often I hear my wonderful reformed brethren bashing dispensationalism down their nose, but we have our own hypercalvinists to deal with. It would be unfair to lump them in with 'all Calvinists' when discussing predestination (like the folks at Calvary Chapel do). Let's lead by example.
    But unlike the hyper-calvinist camp, it is the "nutjobs" within the dispensational camp that make the headlines. They are the ones writing the books that are being bought (Left Behind??). They are the ones running the "prophecy conferences." They are the ones on television and radio pushing their extreme dispie views.

    They appear to be in control of the message.

    MacArthur may have the correct message, but he is in the dispie minority. In fact he gotten slammed pretty hard by his fellow dispies on a number of issues.
    EXACTLY!

    Every single dispensationalists I know personally (talking hundreds here, maybe thousands if you include aquaintances) believes what I have discussed here.

    Hagee, LaHaye, Jeffery, Lindsey, etc. are the leaders within the dispensational camp as far as I can tell. If they are "nut jobs" then those who are not are not doing a very good job of over coming them.

    I was a dispensationalist for over 20 years. I am as well versed in what they believe as most are in reformed theology here. I ate, slept, and drank dispensational theology since I was 12 years old. I owned over 200 books on dispensational eschatology. I tried to argue it's points with Paul Manata here on the board and believed he was insane for about a month, and told him so!

    The difference I have encountered is that when I was taken to scripture and shown something, or asked to show something, I listened, studied, and prayed about it. When I do that to my dispensational friends or family I am dismissed. They know what's true and there is no need for discusion.

    If I point out a verse such as

    So the Lord gave Israel all the land which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they possessed it and lived in it. (Josh. 21:43)

    I am told something like;

    "Well I don't know but I am sure it doesn't mean that dispensationalism is wrong.

  34. #34
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    Then what you have going on is NOT dispensationalism, but a corrupted form.

    Again, if the hypercalvinist bunch were out in the front promoting hypercalvinism (which wouldn't happen.... ) and they were the ones putting on theology conferences, selling books, etc.... in reformed circles, would it be fair to charachterize that as 'normative' calvinism ?

    Maybe we just roll in different circles. My old pastor sat under Ryrie when he used to teach at Philadephia Bible College some years back. And while some of the lunacy regarding Israel is part and parcel of the Lalondes and the Hagees, they are not historically nor theologically part of dispensationalism.
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  35. #35
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    they are not historically nor theologically part of dispensationalism.
    Well, that has not been my experience at all. Kerry, you are a Progressive Dispie right? IMO, from what I've read of that, it may as well be Covenant Theology.

  36. #36
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    Though people may enjoy reading books by the 'greats' of dispensationalism, like Hal Lindsey and others that had unstable/multiple marriages, etc., wouldn't you agree that their influence is not as great as the influence of the local pastors, who in most cases probably are nothing like the 'greats' in many ways. All of the dispensational pastors I've had were godly men who loved the Lord, were married once and faithful to their families, and wonderful examples to follow in many ways. When you see such godly fruit in a local pastor, its probably difficult for many to think that his teachings may be wrong.
    B.Howes
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  37. #37
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  38. #38
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    Originally posted by OS_X
    Again, if the hypercalvinist bunch were out in the front promoting hypercalvinism (which wouldn't happen.... ) and they were the ones putting on theology conferences, selling books, etc.... in reformed circles, would it be fair to charachterize that as 'normative' calvinism ?

    Maybe we just roll in different circles. My old pastor sat under Ryrie when he used to teach at Philadephia Bible College some years back. And while some of the lunacy regarding Israel is part and parcel of the Lalondes and the Hagees, they are not historically nor theologically part of dispensationalism.
    That's an interesting point. Of course within Calvinism we have confessions and creeds that define the faith. These confessions and creeds have been received by the Reformed churches as a true statement of Calvinism. Thus the Reformed churches have the tools to determine what is true Calvinism and what is not.

    Unfortunately dispensationalism does not have the same luxury. These is no "creed of dispensationalism". There is no one in dispensational circles who can say what is authentic and what is not. Dispensationalism, by its very nature, is ad hoc.

    Hagee, Lalonde, Lindsey, and Van Impe has just as much of a right to be called a dispensationalist as Ryrie or Chafer. You have no objective standard by which to decide who is a real dispensationalist and who isn't.
    Tom Albrecht
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  39. #39
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    NO, but they have the Charasmatic and Fundemental camps. Much of their differences are in practice. Because of that, their view of eschatology, though lumped together under the dispensational name, can be as different as night and day. Having been raised a fundelmentalist, if I were still in those churches, I would be insulted that you would so easily throw those nutjob charasmatics into the same group as my self.

    The reason that the fundamentalists aren't on the front page and tv is because they are not, and abhore, such sensationalism. Many of them are truely after God's word and holiness, albeit they may error in certain aspects (don't we all?). They are not after raising money, except for missionaries, or for building 30million dollar "prayer chapels", etc. They don't go out and write a bunch of books either. Needless to say they are very conservative and low-key. So please recognize the difference.
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  40. #40
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    Thank you for recognizing the difference, Colleen. In the haste to bash the 'evil system of dispensationalism', it's very easy to simply 'lump' the nuts in with the ones who actually articulate their points intelligently and still (after all is said and done), respectfully disagree with Covenant Theology. It is truly unfair and IMO, folks like Gentry, Bahnsen, Gerstner, Mathison and others from the postmill camp only make it worse in their polemical but non-charitable works critiquing dispensationalism.

    I would disagree with the 'no objective standard' statement. While many won't treat it like the reformed treat creeds and confessions, Ryrie's books (for both contemporary and revised), Larkin (for the 'classic' period) and Blaising and Bock's books (for Progressive Dispensationalism) would serve the same purpose. Most dispies are working from a different paradigm than the reformed and calvinistic. You CAN, however, sample random traditionally dispensational churches for their doctrinal statements and find that they agree 98-100% of the time on what Ryrie, Chafer and others call the 'fundamentals' of dispensationalism. Something's "The Same" among dispy folks so that, somewhere, they're finding some 'objective standard' that's producing all of these same doctrinal statements at churches from California to Maryland.
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