Thread: Amillennialism, Postmillennialism, Premillennialism or Dispensationalism ?

To what do you hold to : Amillennialism, Postmillennialism, Premillennialism or Dispensationalism ?

Postmillennialism, though I would not consider A-Mil to be heretical.

Amillennialism, although I am very tolerant of postmillennialism.

Amillennialism

Postmillennialism

Amill.

Maybe it's interesting to know that (if iam right) Wilhelmus Brakel was holding to premillennianism.

Where there more puritans or theologions from the nadere reformatie (like Brakel) who were holding to premillennianism ?

I'm Reformed, so I'm Amil. :P But, despite what many crazies think, I'm very optimistic about the success of the Gospel... I just don't believe in a literal 1000 year millennium, as Scripture does not teach such.

Originally posted by houseparent
Postmillennialism

Dear Adam,

For me it is interessting to read your post concerning eschatology, because i read about your Dispensationalism background.
But do you not think that as a postmillennialist you still can have a special love for the Jewish people from a eschatology view piont, because if you believe in a golden age to come here on earth, than (what i understand from postmillennialist) you believe in a kind of revival among the Jewish people. If you read Ian Murray the puritan hope, than you read that were alot of puritans who believed that God hath a special plan for the Jewish in the last days through the postmillennialis view piont. Robert Murray MecCheyne wrote about it and more after the puritans. So what do you think ?

[Edited on 4-4-2006 by Mayflower]

Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia
I'm Reformed, so I'm Amil. :P But, despite what many crazies think, I'm very optimistic about the success of the Gospel... I just don't believe in a literal 1000 year millennium, as Scripture does not teach such.

Same thing he said, except I say postmil. I actually talked with Gary Demar on this in person (well, Chris Rhoades did) and Demar said the best thing to do was get away from millennialism altogether, or something like that.

I just avoid it altogether now, usually. I say "Jesus is coming back, and there's going to be a lot of people saved."

Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia
I just avoid it altogether now, usually. I say "Jesus is coming back, and there's going to be a lot of people saved."

I can't argue with that.

Okay, I'm somewhere between pre-mil and post-mil. Amil I am just not comfortable with. However, hubby is now leaning amil...have no idea why when he was studying post-mil.

Can I simply vote pan-mil?

Postmillennialism.

Amil with some Post-Mill leanings. Don't see a literal 1000 years as the true Posties did.

Originally posted by Mayflower

Originally posted by houseparent
Postmillennialism

Dear Adam,

For me it is interessting to read your post concerning eschatology, because i read about your Dispensationalism background.
But do you not think that as a postmillennialist you still can have a special love for the Jewish people from a eschatology view piont, because if you believe in a golden age to come here on earth, than (what i understand from postmillennialist) you believe in a kind of revival among the Jewish people. If you read Ian Murray the puritan hope, than you read that were alot of puritans who believed that God hath a special plan for the Jewish in the last days through the postmillennialis view piont. Robert Murray MecCheyne wrote about it and more after the puritans. So what do you think ?

[Edited on 4-4-2006 by Mayflower]

I am undecided when it comes to needing a "special" love for Jewish people. I do believe it is possible that there will be a time when the Jewish peole will know and accept who their Messiah really is, but I lean toward Romans 11 being intepreted preteristically (a remenant saved before the fall of Jerasulem).

Being a hard core dispensationalist I've seen what I honestly believe may be Jewish people worship. The passage about blessing those who bless you and cursing those who curse you is lifted up as a mantra to the point where some actually believe Jews don't have to accept Christ to enter Heaven!!

Originally posted by houseparent
I am undecided when it comes to needing a "special" love for Jewish people. I do believe it is possible that there will be a time when the Jewish peole will know and accept who their Messiah really is, but I lean toward Romans 11 being intepreted preteristically (a remenant saved before the fall of Jerasulem).

Hmmm...Adam that is interesting. I did not know that there was a preterist interpretation of Romans 11. I don't hold to an end of the millennium mass conversion, but we do hear of and see evidence of Jews embracing the Messiah. Also, there is a Jewish PCA church in Philadelphia. Can you point me to some books or online articles to a preterist view of Romans 11? Thanks.

Originally posted by houseparent
Postmillennialism

Originally posted by youthevang

Originally posted by houseparent
I am undecided when it comes to needing a "special" love for Jewish people. I do believe it is possible that there will be a time when the Jewish peole will know and accept who their Messiah really is, but I lean toward Romans 11 being intepreted preteristically (a remenant saved before the fall of Jerasulem).

Hmmm...Adam that is interesting. I did not know that there was a preterist interpretation of Romans 11. I don't hold to an end of the millennium mass conversion, but we do hear of and see evidence of Jews embracing the Messiah. Also, there is a Jewish PCA church in Philadelphia. Can you point me to some books or online articles to a preterist view of Romans 11? Thanks.

It's mostly my personal view but I have found ONE author that supports my idea. I have it somewhere I'll have to look. I posted it here a long time ago, no idea if it can be found as I am not sure what heading it was under. The downside..the author had some extreme views outside of this one.

I found three articles so far, keep in mind that I have no idea who these people are just that they seem to be reading Romans 11 as I do. I am also open to correction by more learned brothers!

http://eschatology.com/romans11.html

http://www.preteristarchive.com/Pret...m_p_04_01.html

http://www.biblicalhorizons.com/bh/bh027.htm

[Edited on 4-4-2006 by houseparent]

[Edited on 4-4-2006 by houseparent]

Anyone knows some good books by preterist authors (besides ; De Mar & Gentry i have already) ?

It might be because I have been born and raised a dispensationalist, but I have always thought preterism was extremely close to heresy, are there many Reformed Preterists?

Originally posted by Founded on the Rock
It might be because I have been born and raised a dispensationalist, but I have always thought preterism was extremely close to heresy, are there many Reformed Preterists?

Preterism is heresy. Partial or Orthodox Preterism is held by many Reformed theologians and authors today, although it is by no means a majority. It just happens to be very popular right now.

When Shall These Things Be?

This book is by Keith Mathison, who I believe is a partial-preterist.

Originally posted by Founded on the Rock
It might be because I have been born and raised a dispensationalist, but I have always thought preterism was extremely close to heresy, are there many Reformed Preterists?

You have to distinguish between full preterism and partial preterism. Kind of like Hyper Calvinism and Biblical Calvinism.

Originally posted by Mayflower
Anyone knows some good books by preterist authors (besides ; De Mar & Gentry i have already) ?

Jay Adams

Originally posted by Draught Horse

Originally posted by Mayflower
Anyone knows some good books by preterist authors (besides ; De Mar & Gentry i have already) ?

Jay Adams

R.C. Sproul Sr. - Last Days According to Jesus
Greg Bahnsen - Victory of the Lord

Another Jay Adams is a legendary skateboarder.....from the movie Dogtown Z boys, sorry for the side-note....really I'm posting to say sweet Avatar Draught, what's the deal with it?....

And I'm not educated on the topic enough to take a hard stance, but I'm leaning toward Gary Demar's views on the subject. As always......

I thought Hank Hanegraph's book, the Last Disciple was good a painting a picture of the world then and how the partial-preterist view holds water.

Anybody know if that sequel is out yet?

[Edited on 4-4-2006 by tdowns007]

The sequel is out, I forget what it'scalled.

Thanks, I just looked it up and found title.

"The Last Sacrifice" I'll probably read it since I read the first, def. puts eary church in context.

Amill, but i can see the appeal of Post.

Discipled in a postmil church, but after reading Riddlebarger's basic but solid book, _The Case for Amillennialism_, amil sounds solid to me too. I think it's more of a middle ground than
postmillennialism is anyway.

Do posties have to believe in a literal 1000 year millennium? If so, that might let me out.

Seriously, anything except dispensational premillenialism works for me.

Originally posted by beej6
Discipled in a postmil church, but after reading Riddlebarger's basic but solid book, _The Case for Amillennialism_, amil sounds solid to me too. I think it's more of a middle ground than
postmillennialism is anyway.

Do posties have to believe in a literal 1000 year millennium? If so, that might let me out.

Seriously, anything except dispensational premillenialism works for me.

I don't believe in a literal thousand year reign., neither does Sproul, Bahnsen, Gentry, Demar, etc. Riddlebarger failed to seriously deal with postmillennialism. He gave a good critique of dispensationalism (shooting fish in a barrel).

My position can be summed thus:
I do not hold to a thousand year reign (Christ is reigning now, and has been for the last 2000 years).
But I also don't believe Christ will come back at any time. Not all of his enemies were put under his feet.

This is how I look at millennium/kingdom:

Greg Bahnsen [1] has narrowed the eschatological debate to two specific theological questions:

Question 1: "Is the church age inclusive of the millennium? (Alternatively: Will the end-time events of Christ's return, the resurrection, and judgment synchronize with each other?)"

Amillenialist

My Eschatology could be defined; staple amillennial hermeneutic, fortified by moderate preterist insights, seasoned with postmillennial optimism.



[Edited on 4-5-2006 by MeanieCalvinist]

Originally posted by LadyFlynt

Can I simply vote pan-mil?

Sure!

We can debate back and forth as to end times, but when all is said and done it will be God who will say it and do it.

Jesus is Lord. I place my future in His hands.

I would love to endorse panmil except as Jacob and Riddlebarger have noted, how a system like dispensational premil ever gets to be legitimate, I just can't get. (I'm sure our strident anti-Calvinist brethren feel the same about the doctrine of election. Sigh.) But then I never grew up or was discipled in such a church that believed in disp. premil. I'm guessing that's yet another example of God's grace ;-)

postmillenial
see psalms 2, 110
acts 2
I Cor 15

Amillennialism