What's Happened to Teaching History?

BJClark · #1 (**permalink**) 03-12-2008, 10:33 PM

Wasn't sure where to post this, as there are education threads already started and it could fit in one of those.

Have you seen this article on What's Happened to Teaching History? by Phyllis Schlafly, March 12, 2008 about tests given to College Seniors on Civic Government and History??

The one given to the Brit's was just as bad..many of them don't know Robin Hood is fictional and Winston Churchill was real..

What's Happened to Teaching History? - CWN

Civic Literacy Report - 2007-2008 College Test Scores and Rankings

Carolyn · #2 (**permalink**) 03-12-2008, 10:58 PM

I have a few conjectures.

More children are have difficulty with reading comprehension. As children are more visual/image trained, the word/symbol part of the brain is underdeveloped.

Then, when reading comprehension becomes work, the children complain bitterly about the material being "too hard". Parents who don't want to listen to the endless complaints, in turn complain and campaign to have material in the classroom that isn't so hard for their children. Teachers and administration give in under the pressure.

Add to the mix a short school year and an emphasis on "hands-on" learning, the students are exposed to less and less material.

There could be another, more ideological issue at play. History education, especially in the public arena, is often in the hands of people who have some extremely odd perspectives about fact and truth. (Howard Zinn anyone?) Also, finding material to include in text books that is unoffensive to the "oppressed" is difficult. Therefore history textbooks have increasingly featured minor players from "oppressed" groups at the expense of white males. There is a lot of environmentalism worked in as well. (Did Winston Churchill recycle?)

If you think about it, Robin Hood was a good socialist so he would be taught and Winston Churchill was a white male so he gets dumped.

Sorry for the rant. Your post hit a teacher's nerve!

JBaldwin · #3 (**permalink**) 03-12-2008, 11:15 PM

I would agree with the above, but what I've seen around her is a replacement of teaching history as a "story" and instead teaching it as a list of facts that are not connected.

Here's my favorite. One of the neighbor children came along with us on a homeschool field trip. I engaged the child in conversation about school, since he goes to the local public school, I was interested in what he was learning. He proudly announced that he had learned that Eli Whitney invented the cotton gin. When I asked him "what's a cotton gin" I got a blank stare. "well, when did Whitney invent the cotton gin." Another blank stare. He then proudly announced to me that he had learned this information for the upcoming PACT tests (standardized tests required for SC public school students).

What I want to know is what good is it to know facts, if you have no clue what they mean or when they happened?

BJClark · #4 (**permalink**) 03-12-2008, 11:32 PM

Carolyn;

Quote:

Sorry for the rant. Your post hit a teacher's nerve!

it's okay, it hit my nerve as well..

Davidius · #5 (**permalink**) 03-12-2008, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBaldwin

I would agree with the above, but what I've seen around her is a replacement of teaching history as a "story" and instead teaching it as a list of facts that are not connected.

Here's my favorite. One of the neighbor children came along with us on a homeschool field trip. I engaged the child in conversation about school, since he goes to the local public school, I was interested in what he was learning. He proudly announced that he had learned that Eli Whitney invented the cotton gin. When I asked him "what's a cotton gin" I got a blank stare. "well, when did Whitney invent the cotton gin." Another blank stare. He then proudly announced to me that he had learned this information for the upcoming PACT tests (standardized tests required for SC public school students).

What I want to know is what good is it to know facts, if you have no clue what they mean or when they happened?

Eli Whitney was black and did something neat. That's all the kid needs to know.

BJClark · #6 (**permalink**) 03-12-2008, 11:38 PM

JBaldwin;

Quote:

What I want to know is what good is it to know facts, if you have no clue what they mean or when they happened?

I agree.

So did you tell the boy so that he would know? Maybe even send a bill to the local school board for educating their students..

Pilgrim · #7 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davidius

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBaldwin

I would agree with the above, but what I've seen around her is a replacement of teaching history as a "story" and instead teaching it as a list of facts that are not connected.

Here's my favorite. One of the neighbor children came along with us on a homeschool field trip. I engaged the child in conversation about school, since he goes to the local public school, I was interested in what he was learning. He proudly announced that he had learned that Eli Whitney invented the cotton gin. When I asked him "what's a cotton gin" I got a blank stare. "well, when did Whitney invent the cotton gin." Another blank stare. He then proudly announced to me that he had learned this information for the upcoming PACT tests (standardized tests required for SC public school students).

What I want to know is what good is it to know facts, if you have no clue what they mean or when they happened?

Eli Whitney was black and did something neat. That's all the kid needs to know.

FWIW he was not black.

Davidius · #8 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davidius

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBaldwin

I would agree with the above, but what I've seen around her is a replacement of teaching history as a "story" and instead teaching it as a list of facts that are not connected.

Here's my favorite. One of the neighbor children came along with us on a homeschool field trip. I engaged the child in conversation about school, since he goes to the local public school, I was interested in what he was learning. He proudly announced that he had learned that Eli Whitney invented the cotton gin. When I asked him "what's a cotton gin" I got a blank stare. "well, when did Whitney invent the cotton gin." Another blank stare. He then proudly announced to me that he had learned this information for the upcoming PACT tests (standardized tests required for SC public school students).

What I want to know is what good is it to know facts, if you have no clue what they mean or when they happened?

Eli Whitney was black and did something neat. That's all the kid needs to know.

FWIW he was not black.

I went to public school, too.

I guess the kid from the story and I are about on the same level: all I knew was that some guy named Eli Whitney had invented it!

cih1355 · #9 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 12:58 AM

Quote:

What I want to know is what good is it to know facts, if you have no clue what they mean or when they happened?

You bring up a good point. Some people have memorized the fact that HTTP stands for Hypertext Transfer Protocol, but they don't know what that means or what a protocol is.

cih1355 · #10 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBaldwin

I would agree with the above, but what I've seen around her is a replacement of teaching history as a "story" and instead teaching it as a list of facts that are not connected.

Here's my favorite. One of the neighbor children came along with us on a homeschool field trip. I engaged the child in conversation about school, since he goes to the local public school, I was interested in what he was learning. He proudly announced that he had learned that Eli Whitney invented the cotton gin. When I asked him "what's a cotton gin" I got a blank stare. "well, when did Whitney invent the cotton gin." Another blank stare. He then proudly announced to me that he had learned this information for the upcoming PACT tests (standardized tests required for SC public school students).

What I want to know is what good is it to know facts, if you have no clue what they mean or when they happened?

It sounds like he was learning some facts just to pass a test.

kvanlaan · #11 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 06:10 AM

Quote:

It sounds like he was learning some facts just to pass a test.

Teaching to the test...nothing more.

VirginiaHuguenot · #12 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 06:15 AM

History Lesson

Backwoods Presbyterian · #13 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davidius

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBaldwin

I would agree with the above, but what I've seen around her is a replacement of teaching history as a "story" and instead teaching it as a list of facts that are not connected.

Here's my favorite. One of the neighbor children came along with us on a homeschool field trip. I engaged the child in conversation about school, since he goes to the local public school, I was interested in what he was learning. He proudly announced that he had learned that Eli Whitney invented the cotton gin. When I asked him "what's a cotton gin" I got a blank stare. "well, when did Whitney invent the cotton gin." Another blank stare. He then proudly announced to me that he had learned this information for the upcoming PACT tests (standardized tests required for SC public school students).

What I want to know is what good is it to know facts, if you have no clue what they mean or when they happened?

Eli Whitney was black and did something neat. That's all the kid needs to know.

I wrote a paper in college that said that Eli Whitney caused the Civil War. (Let us see if any History dudes or dudettes can figure out why)

Answerman · #14 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 08:21 AM

Let's see, because the south no longer needed the north's textile manufacturers?

Pergamum · #15 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 10:27 AM

I learned that Abraham Lincoln was born in a log cabin that he built with his own hands.

I think Paul Bunyan (possible relation to John?) also settled the West with a real babe (the blue ox). Maybe he lived next to Johnny Appleseed, I don't know...

JBaldwin · #16 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pergamum

I learned that Abraham Lincoln was born in a log cabin that he built with his own hands.

I think Paul Bunyan (possible relation to John?) also settled the West with a real babe (the blue ox). Maybe he lived next to Johnny Appleseed, I don't know...

JBaldwin · #17 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BJClark

JBaldwin;

Quote:

What I want to know is what good is it to know facts, if you have no clue what they mean or when they happened?

I agree.

So did you tell the boy so that he would know? Maybe even send a bill to the local school board for educating their students..

I did give him a little history lesson.

Send a bill to the local school board? I like the idea, or maybe I could demand they refund my school taxes.

Davidius · #18 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pergamum

I learned that Abraham Lincoln was born in a log cabin that he built with his own hands.

I think Paul Bunyan (possible relation to John?) also settled the West with a real babe (the blue ox). Maybe he lived next to Johnny Appleseed, I don't know...

Thomas2007 · #19 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

FWIW he was not black.

That's ok, the very fact he thought he was black means the public school is doing it's job.

In seventh grade our history teacher came in on the first day of school, closed the door and proceeded to tell us he was required to teach us from this new book. He held it up, and then proceeded to tell us that their are numerous things in this book that are wrong, but I'm required to teach it to you anyway. He then mentioned a few, such as the United States being a republic instead of a democracy &c. Then said he was prohibited from answering any questions but recommended we spend some time in the library studying history, then got up opened the door and started teaching the book.

I thank God for that man, I wish he would have taken a stronger stand - but he planted a seed. I tremble for today's children that are subjected to such abuse.

JBaldwin · #20 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

FWIW he was not black.

That's ok, the very fact he thought he was black means the public school is doing it's job.

In seventh grade our history teacher came in on the first day of school, closed the door and proceeded to tell us he was required to teach us from this new book. He held it up, and then proceeded to tell us that their are numerous things in this book that are wrong, but I'm required to teach it to you anyway. He then mentioned a few, such as the United States being a republic instead of a democracy &c. Then said he was prohibited from answering any questions but recommended we spend some time in the library studying history, then got up opened the door and started teaching the book.

I thank God for that man, I wish he would have taken a stronger stand - but he planted a seed. I tremble for today's children that are subjected to such abuse.

Good for that teacher. He was probably afraid to say much else.

Thomas2007 · #21 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBaldwin

Good for that teacher. He was probably afraid to say much else.

I believe so. Of course, today, the teachers probably don't much else but revisionist history, so they don't know they are teaching mythology.