on the HB

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R. Scott Clark, D.Phil
Professor of Church History and Historical Theology

"For Christ, His Gospel, and His Church"
Associate Pastor
Oceanside URC
The Heidelblog
Office Hours Podcast

This is an excellent article, Dr. Clark.

I have one question though. You stated the following:

Is it possible that there is a sizeable plurality of evangelicals within NAPARC that are part of the issue?

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~Jay~
Husband of ENS, father of J II. | Indian Trail, NC
disabled - cancer
Communicant Member, Precentor | Presbyterian Reformed Church of Charlotte, NC | Presbyterian Reformed Church

zzzzzz ...

I think it's correct to characterize evangelical and Reformed as two entirely different entities, although I have no idea what an evangelical is anymore. I know I'm not one.

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Andrew DeShazo
Husband of Kathryn
Father of Phillip-Giles B. DeShazo
Deacon
Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church, Memphis, TN
Has the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices,
As in obeying the voice of the LORD?
Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice,
And to heed than the fat of rams.

I believe the gospel, therefore, in the Biblical sense, I am an evangelical.

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

I sometimes say that I am "evangelical" but not "an evangelical." The definition of the word is, as we all know, highly problematic in the contemporary period. As I see it the troubles are traceable to the 18th century. The New Siders were not particularly interested in being bound to the confession. For them religious experience trumped confession. Be that as it may, there is an important sense in which confessionalists are evangelical. We are so in the same way the Protestants were. One of the first adjectives used of the Reformers was "evangelical."

I think Darryl Hart makes a good point when he says that there isn't really anything such as "evangelicalism" any more. There are two many particularities among the evangelicals to speak of a unified entity "evangelicalism" any more.

As to evangelicalism within NAPARC, absolutely its an issue and so is fundamentalism. Those are, in my view, the two great issues. The antidote for both is confessionalism.

What's a 'New Sider' ?

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Steve Butts - Former SBC-er
Three Forms of Unity - Bradenton CRCNA - Bradenton, Florida
(A conservative member in a conservative congregation)

"Turning away to false Theology is equal to turning away to false gods" — Francis Schaeffer (Death in the City)

That's Ron Sider after his position was made to look silly by Chilton's book...

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Todd K. Pedlar
member, First Congregational Church, (CCCC) Cresco, IA
http://inprincipiodeus.solideogloria.com
http://puritanwisdom.blogspot.com

"As God did not at first choose you because you were high, He will not now forsake you because you are low."
John Flavel in Keeping the Heart



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the real answer:

check Muether & Hart here, in New Horizons and a very important work by Charles Hodge, here.

Thanks.

Separated at birth? You be the judge!

ps. If you're not logged in, this post makes less sense than most of my posts as the other pic only shows up to those who are logged in.

- amaaaazing!

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-JD

oh my

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Sterling Harmon
Presbyterian Church of Coventry (PCA)
Coventry, CT
Deacon
________________

"Whatever is laudable in our works proceeds from the grace of God."
-- John Calvin, Institutes III:xv.3.

"Our Lord God must be a good man, to be fond of worthless fellows. I cannot like them, and yet I, myself, am one."
-- Martin Luther, Table Talk
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I didnt notice that this link had already been posted by Dr. Clark earlier. I am sorry for any confusion, I would like to say that I profited greatly from reading this entry and I am ever more encouraged by it in my confessionalism.

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Josiah Lovett
Member of
Trinity OPC
Bothell WA
Orthodox Presbyterian Church
Westminster Standards

Great post Dr. Clark.

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Rich
PCA, Northern VA
Student, New Geneva Theological Seminary

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Really intellegent article. I especially liked - "Of course it’s a Faustian bargain. By making such a bargain Reformed folk have allowed others to define them. " Thanks for posting. It's nice to see people that care anymore. Sometimes I feel that the visible church is in permanent apostasy, and there's nothing that can be done about it. Of couse I do know Church History all too well, and it is the Lord who build's His Church. Thanks - Tim

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Timothy Johnson
First United Presbyterian of Moline
PCUSA (Yea, I know)
Theology/Philosophy Sunday School Teacher
Davenport, IA

Yes, I enjoyed Hart's book very much on this issue. My quibble with this discussion about evangelicalism is that it tends to neglect evangelicalism outside of the USA (like Australia and the UK).

The problem is that of definitions generally. Is someone an evangelical just because they call themselves one? This is what Hart assumes. However, Barth, for example, called himself "Reformed". Liberals in the PCUSA would call themselves "Presbyterian".

If we go with what people call themselves then we're dealing with a sociological definition. If we're using the term as originally defined by Luther or subsequently by the 18 century awakenings we're using an historical definition. Perhaps the discussion could be clarified somewhat by speaking of contemporary versus historic evangelicalism. For example, I'd be unhappy to be known as the former, but very happy to known as the latter.

Hart wants to abandon the term "Evangelicalism" because it's now meaningless in his context. That may be well and good. But Hart seems to abandon the concept as well, which is a pity. He has neglected something important here: historic evangelicalism (a la Luther) especially emphasizes that the gospel (evangel) is not simply one doctrine amongst many, but the central doctrine of the Christian faith (1 Cor. 15:3-4), and all other doctrines should be defined in relation to it. Such a definition then produces critical emphases in a theological system (bible-based, crucicentric, conversion-oriented, mission-focused etc).

Every blessing.

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Marty
Ordained Presbyter; Currently Lecturer in Theology
Anglican Church of Australia
(Now finally back! in) Perth, Australia.
"There is nothing so necessary to draw us to repentance as good thoughts of God." (Thomas Manton)