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R. Scott Clark, D.Phil
Associate Professor of Historical and Systematic Theology

"For Christ, His Gospel, and His Church"
Associate Pastor
Oceanside URC
The Heidelblog

This is an excellent article, Dr. Clark.

I have one question though. You stated the following:

Is it possible that there is a sizeable plurality of evangelicals within NAPARC that are part of the issue?

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~Jay~
Husband of ENS, father of J II. | Indian Trail, NC
Teacher Aide, Union County Public Schools, NC
Communicant Member, Precentor | Presbyterian Reformed Church of Charlotte, NC | Presbyterian Reformed Church

I think it's correct to characterize evangelical and Reformed as two entirely different entities, although I have no idea what an evangelical is anymore. I know I'm not one.

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Andrew DeShazo, Deacon
Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church, Memphis, TN
"Send Zenas the lawyer and Apollos on their journey with haste, that they may lack nothing." -Titus 3:13
http://foolish-wisdom.blogspot.com/

I believe the gospel, therefore, in the Biblical sense, I am an evangelical.

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)
http://reformedcovenanter.wordpress.com/
The Regulative Principle of Worship: Explained and Applied (Xulon Press)
A Conquered Kingdom: Biblical Civil Government (Reformed Worldview Books)

I sometimes say that I am "evangelical" but not "an evangelical." The definition of the word is, as we all know, highly problematic in the contemporary period. As I see it the troubles are traceable to the 18th century. The New Siders were not particularly interested in being bound to the confession. For them religious experience trumped confession. Be that as it may, there is an important sense in which confessionalists are evangelical. We are so in the same way the Protestants were. One of the first adjectives used of the Reformers was "evangelical."

I think Darryl Hart makes a good point when he says that there isn't really anything such as "evangelicalism" any more. There are two many particularities among the evangelicals to speak of a unified entity "evangelicalism" any more.

As to evangelicalism within NAPARC, absolutely its an issue and so is fundamentalism. Those are, in my view, the two great issues. The antidote for both is confessionalism.

What's a 'New Sider' ?

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Steve Butts - Former SBC-er
Three Forms of Unity - Bradenton CRC - Bradenton, Florida
(A conservative member in a conservative congregation)

"It is a good thing God chose me before I was born, because he surely would not have afterwards." — C.H. Spurgeon

That's Ron Sider after his position was made to look silly by Chilton's book...

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Todd K. Pedlar
member, First Congregational Church, (CCCC) Cresco, IA
http://semperubi.rtrc.net

"Many men, after a long conversion, see more of the workings of sin in their hearts than ever they did before or at their first conversion. Now, such men have not an increase of sin, but an increase of illumination and light" (Christopher Love)

the real answer:

check Muether & Hart here, in New Horizons and a very important work by Charles Hodge, here.

Thanks.

Separated at birth? You be the judge!

ps. If you're not logged in, this post makes less sense than most of my posts as the other pic only shows up to those who are logged in.

- amaaaazing!

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-JD
[URL="http://www.greeknewtestament.com/B52C005.htm#V21"]1Thess5:21[/URL]
Ordained Deacon, PCA
Serving on Ministry Staff, SBC
MS

[url=http://www.christianskepticism.org]Team blog: ChristianSkepticism.org[/url] | [URL="http://mbbchurch.com"]Martin Bluff Church [/URL] | Personal:[URL="http://jdlblog.blogspot.com"]...a Longmire rambles[/URL]

oh my

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Sterling Harmon
Coventry, CT
PCA
Deacon
________________

"Whatever is laudable in our works proceeds from the grace of God."
-- John Calvin, Institutes III:xv.3.

"Our Lord God must be a good man, to be fond of worthless fellows. I cannot like them, and yet I, myself, am one."
-- Martin Luther, Table Talk

I didnt notice that this link had already been posted by Dr. Clark earlier. I am sorry for any confusion, I would like to say that I profited greatly from reading this entry and I am ever more encouraged by it in my confessionalism.

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Josiah Lovett
Member of
Trinity OPC Bothell Wa.
Westminster Confession of Faith, Larger and Shorter Catechisms

Great post Dr. Clark.

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Rich
Okinawa, Japan
Deacon, Central Baptist Church, SBC

SoliDeoGloria.com - A Community for Reformed Thought and Discussion
WebsiteMaven - Web Hosting Reviews, Guides, and Advice to build and promote your web site.

Really intellegent article. I especially liked - "Of course it’s a Faustian bargain. By making such a bargain Reformed folk have allowed others to define them. " Thanks for posting. It's nice to see people that care anymore. Sometimes I feel that the visible church is in permanent apostasy, and there's nothing that can be done about it. Of couse I do know Church History all too well, and it is the Lord who build's His Church. Thanks - Tim

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Timothy Johnson
First United Presbyterian of Moline
PCUSA (Yea, I know)
Theology/Philosophy Sunday School Teacher
Davenport, IA

Yes, I enjoyed Hart's book very much on this issue. My quibble with this discussion about evangelicalism is that it tends to neglect evangelicalism outside of the USA (like Australia and the UK).

The problem is that of definitions generally. Is someone an evangelical just because they call themselves one? This is what Hart assumes. However, Barth, for example, called himself "Reformed". Liberals in the PCUSA would call themselves "Presbyterian".

If we go with what people call themselves then we're dealing with a sociological definition. If we're using the term as originally defined by Luther or subsequently by the 18 century awakenings we're using an historical definition. Perhaps the discussion could be clarified somewhat by speaking of contemporary versus historic evangelicalism. For example, I'd be unhappy to be known as the former, but very happy to known as the latter.

Hart wants to abandon the term "Evangelicalism" because it's now meaningless in his context. That may be well and good. But Hart seems to abandon the concept as well, which is a pity. He has neglected something important here: historic evangelicalism (a la Luther) especially emphasizes that the gospel (evangel) is not simply one doctrine amongst many, but the central doctrine of the Christian faith (1 Cor. 15:3-4), and all other doctrines should be defined in relation to it. Such a definition then produces critical emphases in a theological system (bible-based, crucicentric, conversion-oriented, mission-focused etc).

Every blessing.

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Marty

From Creation to New Creation via Redemption