If I wanted to get married and have kids I would home school.

blade

__________________
Nathan Olaf Brandal
First Baptist Church of Kirkland

"Man is nothing: he hath a free will to go to hell, but none to go to heaven, till God worketh in him to will and to do his good pleasure"
GEORGE WHITEFIELD TO JOHN WESLEY

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__________________
Dan Harris. -member of Westminster OPC, Indian Head Park, IL

Looking for piano lessons in the Plainfield, Shorewood, Joliet, IL area?
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WOW! Cool.

Something for me to boast about besides the Founders now! Just Joshin'

__________________
Josh Hicks, Chloë's Dad
Attending CCRPC, Member of TRBC
Reformers & Puritans -lllll- Puritan Pub
Board Rules - Signature Rules - Suggestion Box

If all the members of the SBC were to pull their kids out of the public school in the south then the public system would crumble.

__________________
Chuck
PCA

"Duty is ours, consequences are God's."
Thomas J "Stonewall" Jackson

[quote:271909a5a3][i:271909a5a3]Originally posted by twogunfighter[/i:271909a5a3]
If all the members of the SBC were to pull their kids out of the public school in the south then the public system would crumble. [/quote:271909a5a3]

That would be great. It would then put the responsibility back on the parents, where it belongs in the first place.

I can't agree,

I have decided already that it would not be healthy for my children to live in that much of a sheltered environment. I survived - I want to be a preacher - the school system would crumble - we through our children would not be the salt and light we should. It's over-reacting to a bad situation.

__________________
Bryan Wiley
Layman
Reformed Baptist Church
Louisville, Kentucky

"Seek the Kingdom of God first."

Bryan,
I disagree with your disagreement...first, our children aren't to be warriors. We don't send them into any kind of battle, until they are adults. I do believe that a child can be "salt and light", but we shouldn't be putting them on the front lines for that purpose. I don't see any scriptural precedant for it.

I think that just like the Roman church was in the 16th century, so is today's Gov't school system...sometimes, institutions are "too far gone" to reform from the inside.

Also, I'm not willing to sacrifice my Children to "support" the Gov't school system.

There are dozens of good reasons to Homeschool...and 0 good reasons to leave your child in Gov't school. I challenge anyone to show an advantage that Gov't school has over homeschooling.

__________________
Brian S. Cole
Deacon, Westminster Presbyterian Church (PCA)
Vancouver, WA
"Strange, isn't it? Each man's life touches so many other lives, and when he isn't around he leaves an awful hole, doesn't he?" - Clarence the Angel in "It's a Wonderful Life"
Kirsten Pipes rule! www.kirstenpipe.com

[quote:0a0750e9f4][i:0a0750e9f4]Originally posted by staythecourse[/i:0a0750e9f4]
I can't agree,

I have decided already that it would not be healthy for my children to live in that much of a sheltered environment. I survived - I want to be a preacher - the school system would crumble - we through our children would not be the salt and light we should. It's over-reacting to a bad situation. [/quote:0a0750e9f4]

Trust me, Bryan...my children shall not be sheltered after being taught the Scriptures. There are plenty of things in the Bible which show the ugliness and exceedingly sinfulness of man.

So what if the school system crumbles? Maybe we can do what they did before "public" education came along. Teach the Bible.

Being salt and light has nothing to do with school, but with the overall area of our life. I should be salt and light in my home. in my church. everywhere.

[quote:f9adad5384]
When torture and execution have failed, our enemy has turned to educating us and our children away from our faith.
[/quote:f9adad5384]

OK, it's not really off the subject, it's just a small tangent. When I was in college, we read a short story in French class. It was about the German invasion of France (during the Franco-Prussian War?) and how the Germans were going to force the French to learn German. There were going to be no more French classes. Well, on the last day, the school was jammed with people who wanted to be taught everything they could about their language, before it was taken away from them. And the teacher said, "Tous les jours, on se dit, 'Bah. J'ai bien les temps. J'apprendrai demain.' Et puis on va se qui arrive." Which basically says, "Everyday, you said, 'Bah. I have plenty of time. I will learn it tomorrow.' And now you see what has arrived." (Although the translation isn't so pretty as the French.)

My point is that it is an old and time-honored custom to "educate" people into the mindset of those in power. Or, as Hitler said to the Germans who opposed him, "You can fight me all you want. I already have your children." And those children were literally fighting for him at the end of the war.

I don't know whether home-schooling is the answer or not. I don't have children, so I'm not caught in the battle.

I do remember about a month ago when the 6 year old little girl came home from school with a school library book about gay marriage. And this was in the Bible belt! (One of the Carolinas, I think.)

There was a story a few years ago about YOUNG girls being given gynecological exams at school. No notice to the parents, no permission slips. They didn't even tell the girls what was going to happen. These types of things make me wonder about public schools. They don't have the money for music, art or gym, but they have the money for that!

Mary

__________________
Mary

Attending Cornerstone Baptist Church (Independent)
Roseville, MI
Living in Metro Detroit

I alternately home-schooled and public-schooled my children. Homeschooling is not the cure-all, although you do have a lot more control. I home-schooled both in Washington State and in California. California would not recognize my home-schooling although they allowed it (I had to register my home school each year) because my courses of study for my sons was not submitted to them for state approval. Because of that , neither of my sons has a high-school diploma. My younger son did receive a GED certificate on his first try (not the easiest test to pass).

One of the reasons I took my sons out of public school was sociological rather than pedagogic. My younger son's attitude and behavoir changed drastically for the worse over a period of two weeks. When I inquired as to the cause the school psychologist told me it was because he was being given assertiveness training (at age seven or eight). He told us his teachers said we couldn't make him work, couldn't discipline him, couldn't make him do anything he didn't want to do. He was also told to tell us what he thought in no uncertain terms if he didn't like our treatment of him.

That was almost twenty years ago. Now, with revisionism in full swing, with human sexuality taught from a purely hedonistic perspective, etc., etc. I wouldn't risk putting a child into such an environment.

__________________
Willard (Bill) Paul, Pastor
Clear Creek Baptist Church (SBC)
Silverdale, WA

"It is not what a man says he will do, but what he does,
that determines his character and reveals his ethic."

My Blogs: http://www.livejournal.com/users/sundoulos and http://www.livejournal.com/users/thetheologue

...then I would fully expect the government to respond by outlawing home schooling as best it can. Which would be frustrating to the nth degree, because home schooling is in my plans for my children.

Private Christian schools would then have to drastically reduce their tuition for most of these kids to go there.

I would expect the gov't to intervene.

I would not expect Christian schools to sacrafice profits.

Thus, many may end up being stuck as the underground/grassroots home schooling movement gets thrust into the public spotlight like this.

Maybe?

Bryan-
I would have agreed with you a few years ago...I can't, though.

Public schools do indoctrinate (they don't teach): and what they are indoctrinating is not knowledge....they are demoralizing our children. The reason I don't want to send my kids to a public school (when I'm given children, that is) is not to keep them from the children at school, rather, the horrible leadership and "teachers".

I know of people homeshooling that have this sort of "alliance" where their kids are interacting with, and learning with other children. At my church, the largest family there homeschools and their kids are VERY active. More active than I was. They are doing music...musicals, stuff like that. They can interact with kids just like other kids...but they can also talk with adults in an adult manner.

My point is: homeshooling is only "sheltering" at the points YOU make it. I know many are overly sheltered, but you know what...I don't want my kids to lose their moral compass in homosexual sex ed. When they look at a cucumber, I want them to see a cucumber!

__________________
Craig French
Married and father of a beautiful daughter.
Member of Christ The Word, PCA
Toledo, OH

MY BLOG

"My point is: homeshooling is only "sheltering" at the points YOU make it."

I think it was R. C. Sproul Jr. who responded to the charge that he was sheltering his children - "Yeah - and I feed and clothe them too!"

__________________
Len Moore
Member, Christ Presbyterian Church, New Orleans
Currently "between" churches and attending
New Life Presbyterian, Tifton, Georgia
Husband to Christie; Father to Hannah (6 mos!)

I encourage everyone to search the Scriptures on this issue. Read the following books: "Rediscovering the lost tools of learning" by Doug Wilson (especially the Dorothy Sayers article in the back); and "Philosophy of Christian education" by Gordon Clark.
For those on the board who support the sending of covenant children to the public schools, I would be interested in a Biblical argument for that position. Thanks all.

__________________
Bobby Gawthrop, V.D.M.
licensed, ordained SBC, licensed PCA
Ph.D. student (Whitefield Theological Seminary)
"Every minister in those days had a V.D.M. degree: Verbum Dei Minister. When, therefore, I became a teacher of apologetics it was natural for me to think, not only of my Th.M. and my Ph.D., but above all of my V.D.M. The former degrees were but means whereby I might be true to the latter degree." Cornelius Van Til

Another good book that will open your eyes to the foundations of what is wrong in government schools is the book [i:8a152128c6]Persecution[/i:8a152128c6] by David Limbaugh. The subtitle is "How Liberals are Waging War Against Christianity."

I was already convinced that we will homeschool any children God gives us, and our church very strongly supports and encourages home school and Christian school families. When I read this book I was just amazed at the things going on in teh classroom. Of course the nightly news gives us good reason to want to shelter our kids too! The battle brewing here locally is over a school that is refusing to allow same sex couples to the prom. They are being sued of course, but the news interviewed all the homosexual and "bi-sexual" teenagers that feel they are being "discriminated" against.

Do you really want your kids in the thick of all the sexual perversion, atheistic humanistic philosophy, etc etc?

Phillip

__________________
Pastor Phillip M. Way
[url=http://www.timeintheword.org][color=blue] Maranatha Community Church of Central Texas[/color][/url]
A Reformed Baptist Congregation and Member Church of the
Fellowship of Independent Reformed Evangelicals [url=http://www.firefellowship.org][color=red](FIRE)[/color][/url]

Blogging at: [url=http://pastorway.blogspot.com/][color=blue][i]pastorway[/i][/color][/url]
Sermons Online at: [url=http://www.sermonaudio.com/timeintheword][color=blue]TIME in the Word Ministries[/color][/url]

When all souls are saved and all mourners comforted we may venture to discuss recondite theories, but not while graveyards are filling with those who know not God. -- CH Spurgeon

[b]The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
Luke 18:27[/b]

Seeing that this need is so great to preserve our children from the onslaught on the public school ideologies, how many churches do you think will help families, in particular, poor families, to help them eduacte their children too? That really is the only reason why I could think a parent would leave their children in public schools. They don't have the money to put their kids in private school, and maybe they don't have the smarts or the time to homeschool. If the SBC is going to adopt this measure (which I certainly don't object to) then they had better be ready to help all their families to be able to fulfill such an edict. Otherwise, you're just telling poor parents they must stop sinning (sending their kids to pubic school) and not giving them the means to do so.

As for a feared reaction from the state? I really don't think that will happen in today's political climate. At least not yet. Most people do understand that the public schools are lost. Most people do recognize that home and private school students do better academically and socially. I think there would be significant backlash against any politicians who punished home and private schoolers in that way.

__________________
Patrick
OPC
MDiv, RTS Jackson.

"He does well, that discourses of Christ; but he does infinitely better, that by experimental knowledge, feeds and lives on Christ." Thomas Brooks.

As a former SBCer (up until 7 years ago) I do not believe that the SBC will pass this measure.

I hope they do, but doubt they will.

Phillip

Just a reminder:

[quote:d4101d8225]
[u:d4101d8225]2LBCF 1689 Chapter 21:2[/u:d4101d8225]
God alone is Lord of the conscience, and hath left it free from the doctrines and commandments of men which are in any thing contrary to his word, or not contained in it. So that to believe such doctrines, or obey such commands out of conscience, is to betray true liberty of conscience; and the requiring of an implicit faith, an absolute and blind obedience, is to destroy liberty of conscience and reason also.
[/quote:d4101d8225]

Let me get this out of the way, I will most certainly not put my children in public school (Lord willing that I have them), but that is not the point. What does the SBC think it is, and where does it think it got this supposed authority? :flaming:

__________________
Philip A - Member, High Desert United Reformed Church, Apple Valley, CA.

"Reason also is choice" - Milton, Paradise Lost
"And then shall every word also seem consistent to him, if he for his part diligently read the Scriptures in company with those who are presbyters in the Church, among whom is the apostolic doctrine, as I have pointed out." - Irenaeus, Against Heresies, IV:XXXII.
"where there is text, there is hope" - Richard A. Muller

On the one hand, one could say that the SBC (of which I am a member) should be careful in its wording, so as not to bind the consciouses of its members. On the other hand, one could say that sending one's children to public school is unbiblical, the teaching of children being the responsibility of the parent and the content of much public school teaching being very much un- and anti-biblical.

If the second route is taken, then I wholeheartedly agree that Southern Baptist churches must be prepared to help parents in this regard.

Lon

9:9

The SBC has 16 million members mainly in the south. I would say that half of the kids in public school where I grew up (rural GA) were children of SBC members. If those pulled out of the system many schools in AL, MS, GA, and TN would not be able to field a football team, ergo school would collapse. Seriously, the SBC has enough members in the south to cause closure of many schools due to lack of participation if they left. If SBC members wanted to defund the schools through their vote it may be possible in some districts and states.

Chuck

[quote:f9a4d59fbd]
Philip A said:


Just a reminder:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2LBCF 1689 Chapter 21:2
God alone is Lord of the conscience, and hath left it free from the doctrines and commandments of men which are in any thing contrary to his word, or not contained in it. So that to believe such doctrines, or obey such commands out of conscience, is to betray true liberty of conscience; and the requiring of an implicit faith, an absolute and blind obedience, is to destroy liberty of conscience and reason also.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Let me get this out of the way, I will most certainly not put my children in public school (Lord willing that I have them), but that is not the point. What does the SBC think it is, and where does it think it got this supposed authority?

[/quote:f9a4d59fbd]

Philip,

Whether one should send his children to an institution that will indoctrinate them in secular humanism is not a matter of Christian liberty. It is sin. It is a clear violation of the Biblical mandate to train up one's children in the fear and admonition of the Lord.

As Christian parents we are obligated to raise our children in the fear of the Lord. If we choose to send our children to be indoctrinated in humanism, we are responsible what what they learn.

We do not have Christian liberty to disobey God, as says also the very next section in the confession that you quoted:

[quote:f9a4d59fbd]
They who upon pretence of Christian liberty do practice any sin, or cherish any sinful lust, as they do thereby pervert the main design of the grace of the gospel to their own destruction, so they wholly destroy the end of Christian liberty, which is, that being delivered out of the hands of all our enemies, we might serve the Lord without fear, in holiness and righeousness before Him, all the days of our lives.
[/quote:f9a4d59fbd]

[Edited on 5-6-2004 by Dan....]

Philip A wrote:
[quote:5e285258b2]
What does the SBC think it is, and where does it think it got this supposed authority?
[/quote:5e285258b2]

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with how the SBC works. The SBC has no authority at all, except as granted to it by its member churches. It has no authority to tell any church or individual to do anything.

Resolutions are just that -- resolutions. Resolutions are not bindingn (unless they are "binding resolutions&quot. They reflect the mentality of a body. They call for voluntary compliance.

9:9, the originator of this thread wrote: "the resolution asks 'all officers and members of the Southern Baptist Convention and the churches associated with it to remove their children from the government schools and see to it that they receive a thoroughly Christian education, for the glory of God, the good of Christ's church, and the strength of their own commitment to Jesus.'" Note the word "asks." This seems to me to be most proper.

Philip,

You said having your children in public schools was a sin.

What about a public university?

What about public school teachers or Prof.'s, are they sinners by contributing to this sin?

Therefore we should exercise church discipline on all parents who send their children to public schools and universities, right? And we should exercise discipline on any teachers or Prof.'s right?

And any single parents or low-income parents the church needs to subsidize their schooling and college, right?

RBDude

__________________
Steve Clevenger, Pastor
Covenant Reformed Baptist Church
Warrenton, VA
www.covenantword.org
http://reformedbaptistfellowship.wordpress.com