A couple of threads having to do with education (judge ruling on a homeschooling family and the argumentative essay class) have me thinking about public vs. Christian education. I started to add my to these discussions and realized I would be hopping down another rabbit trail... (We need a hopping rabbit icon!)

This time, I want to know what everyone thinks about public education. But before you all go spouting off your opinions about the usual evils of public education (lack of discipline, low test scores, gang violence, etc), I am more interested in thoughts regarding philosophy and world view. How does public education affect a person's world view and how important is that in the grand scheme of things? If we expose our children to this world viewpoint 5 days a week on a regular basis, can we counteract that with a Christian education on the evenings and weekends? What does Scripture teach about this?

I have some strong opinions on the subject, but I am interested in hearing what others have to say.

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J Baldwin
Keowee Presbyterian Church, PCA
Pickens, SC
“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” Luke 10:27

Check Out My Blog: http://reflectjoy.blogspot.com/

Let me add one thing--in the poll when I am speaking of student, I am specifically thinking of students under the age of 16.

Without a doubt public education shapes the students world view. I was going to answer, "depends on the student" but I answered in general terms.

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Bill Brown
Elder
Grace Baptist Church
Anne Arundel County, Maryland

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Having recently graduated from a public high school (4 years ago), I may be able to share some insight.

If a Christian child is in public school, there quite honestly could be not a single sound Christian companion for them to spend time with during lunch or recess.

Also, like you implied, there are going to be around these individuals for about 7 hours of the day, which, considering Pro 13:20, could be extremely negative.

I went to an Arkansas high school, an area which most people would call the "Bible belt", and even that high school would be horrible for a Christian child to be grow up in. That being said, some of the teachers may be sound Christians; however, the vast majority of other children will not be.



*EDIT* I just noticed the under 16 comment, and I can tell you from first hand experience that children in the 4th-5th grade can be addicted to gangster rap and pornography. Where I went to school, it would still be a bad environment for a Christian child.

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Taylor Otwell
Considering Membership -- Oak Cliff Baptist Church
Fort Smith, Arkansas, USA

Did we ever hear any cry out on their deathbed that they have been too holy, that they have prayed too much, or walked with God too much? – Thomas Watson, The Godly Man’s Picture

In my neck of the woods (Steubenville, Ohio) much is made of the fact that many of the teachers in the public schools are Christians - in my church there are an amazing number of PS teachers and retired teachers. BUT.....what is not taken into account is that they are working for a government organization with an atheistic worldview and agenda. Children are exposed to that agenda for at least five hours per day, five days per week. Even those from solid Christian homes cannot escape this pernicious influence. For the most part they will emerge from their 14 years of state captivity spouting the party line.

Even more distressing, in my opinion, is the inability of PS (and for that matter, many CS) students to think independently. They are so used to having information/misinformation spoon fed to them that they are unable to actually search out truth - they obediently follow whoever they perceive to be their leader. My dd was in a CS through 5th grade and I found that this attitude handicapped her through her subsequent homeschooled years, although it decreased as time went on. I see a huge difference between her and her husband who is the product of both the Christian and public school systems.

I could go on and on about this but it would turn into a HUGE bunnie trail so I'll stop here.

I picked It depends on the student. However, I really mean that it depends on the student and their parents. I believe that a child's worldview/life philosophy training is the responsibility of their parents whether they attend public school or not.

That said, the public in general can adversely influence any of us child or adult if we are not grounded properly in our faith.

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J. David Kear
Sunday School Teacher
First Presbyterian Church
Villa Rica, Georgia

This is exactly was I was gonna post.

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Bryan Riddle
1689 London Baptist Confession
Bethel Baptist Church Owasso, Oklahoma

I'm glad I wasn't homeschooled - my parents didn't have a very good fund of knowlege and they considered it in order to isolate us from worldly influences, but by the time they considered it I had already made up my mind, and I wasn't a Christian. Their attempts to isolate, and my tendency to rebel would have simply made it harder to give Christianity a fair hearing than it already was.

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The man who is disposed to think of his sin as a great calamity, rather than as a heinous crime, is not likely either to reverence God or to respect His law. - John Kennedy, 1873
Meg
Blog
Member, Intown Presbyterian Church,PCA, Portland, OR

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

At least no one is voting 'no affect'. BTW, shouldn't it be 'effect' and not 'affect'? I don't know for sure because I was publicly schooled through age 30!

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You are quite right. It is effect, because effect is a noun. Can I blame all my mistakes on the fact that I have the flu today? Thanks.

My apologies if this is off topic, but seeing as we are unanimous that public education has great influence on the worldview of our nation's children, why many Christians oppose Christian teachers from teaching in the public schools eludes me. It seems to me that we would want to get as many Christian teachers into the public teaching ranks as possible to help sway that worldview in a more Biblical direction. (Not all are called to so so, of course)

I voted "has minimal effect." This was based mainly on my own experience, which was 3 years at a State school, and 10 years at 4 different nominally Christian schools. I remember being 8 or 9 in the State school and a teacher saying (regarding religion) "there is no right or wrong, only peoples' opinions" and me thinking "that isn't true, either the claims made by each religion are true, or they aren't." I also remember thinking in high school, when I was at Christian schools, that any child who believed what they were told, just because their teachers told them, was especially dimwitted and fundamentally incapable of learning; but then I always was an intellectually arrogant child.

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T W Hopper
Member, Presbyterian Reformed Church
Currently between churches since PRC closed here - attending Crossroads Christian Church.
Canberra, Australia.

I live in the Bible belt and have many friends who teach in public schools. Their complaint is that they are not allowed to teach a Christian worldview in the school. If they mention God, it must be in context with other religons. Personally, I am not opposed to Christians teaching in public schools, but just because they are there doesn't mean that the children will get a Christian education. All it means is if they happen to get a Christian teacher, they won't have their faith ridiculed.

It has been my experience, I am sure it is not the case with your many friends, that teachers are allowed to teach a Christian worldview as long as they are not ornery about it. The public school is made out to be this three headed monster that will gobble up any teacher who refuses to teach same sex marraige. But in actuality it is a giant slug with no teeth. No one cares what you teach those kids as long as the parents don't complain and your test scores don't get lower.

Besides, Christian teachers cannot help but influence children if they are in actuality living a Christian lifestyle. Kids see that. Especially kids who live in a situation where sin runs rampant at home.

Again, I am not against Christians teaching in the public schools. There are some who are called to be there, but I cannot believe that any teacher would be allowed to teach a true Christian worldview without some opposition. Perhaps I need to explain what I mean by Christian worldview. What I mean is that all things turn back to God, as Creator and Sustainer of life on this earth. So when a teacher teaches science, he teaches that God created the earth and is the Master Designer. When he teaches history, he teaches God's providence and His involvement in the affairs of men. When he teaches politics, he shows how government leaders should be required to answer to God for their behavior. I don't know of a Christian teacher who would even dream of going this far when it comes to teaching in the classroom, because of the restrictions placed on them. The public school textbooks do not present God at all, let alone in this way. If a teacher consistently contradicts the textbook, eventually someone questions it.

Church members teaching in gov't schools. Heck, I even have an elder who's a principal in one (sends his kids to CS, tho). Would we feel differently if we were living in Iran, and they were working in madrassas because, well, they could be an influence for Christ, and hey, the pay and benies ain't bad either?

Oh nevermind. What did I do with my blindfold?

Frankly, I won't teach in a government school, (I actually tried substituting at the local middle school once--won't do that again), but I do believe there are some who are called to do it. Having said that, those Christians I know teach in government schools tend to teach the lower grades or high school subjects which don't require a discussion of beliefs, such as math and music.

Strong influence. Granted there are outside influences that sometimes counter, but given the amount of time a child spends in ps compared to the amount of time usually spent with parents and church...it is definitely unbalanced in favour of the ps. The teachers there are strongly out to promote THEIR views, not encourage children in the views of their individual families. Teachers are to take whatever means necessary to accomplish not just teaching of these views, but to make certain that the students have absorbed through behaviour and thought modification. Those children that don't fall into line many times end up being commanded to psychiatric evaluation. At least that has been my experience from the schools I was familiar with.

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JC
URCNA
PA

"Forgiveness is primarily for our own sake, so that we no longer carry the burden of resentment. But to forgive does not mean we will allow injustice again." --Jack Kornfield

Definite influence, UNLESS you spend each and every day some time countering everything they saw and heard not just from teachers but friends. We should be shielding our children from ungodly infuence not putting them directly in its path.

1 Corinthians 15:33
Do not be deceived: "Bad company ruins good morals."

Why would we put our children through was Lot was put through in the city of Sodom.

2 Peter 2:7-8
7 and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked
8 (for as that righteous man lived among them day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard);

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Traci
Lynnwood OPC
Psalm 52:8-9
8 But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God: I trust in the mercy of God for ever and ever.
9 I will praise thee for ever, because thou hast done it: and I will wait on thy name; for it is good before thy saints.

For the most part, it is the same here. Though here the psychiatric evaluation usually leads to a visit to the doctor's office where a dose of ridilin or some other behavior modifying drug is prescribed. At one time (I don't know if it is still the case), the stats indicated that 50% of the children in our county's school district where on some type of behavior-modifying drug. Most of these drugs were prescribed after a student had been evaluated by a teacher, sent to a psychiatrist and then a doctor.