I am nearly certain (about 99.9%) that I want to pursue a seminary education. However, I am not certain whether or not I am called to go into vocational ministry. I am currently looking at Mid-America Reformed Seminary because it's really the only Reformed seminary close to me, and I have no desire to relocate at this time. They have the traditional MDiv degree and a MTS (Master of Theological Studies) degree. The MTS degree follows either a theological track or a Biblical studies track; both of which are essentially subsets of the MDiv program. Like most seminaries, their primary goal is to train men for the pastorate.

However, I am just not 100% certain that is where I need (or want) to go. There are times that I desire it very strongly, but there are also times where I dread it because of the awesome responsibility it entails. I do know this for certain (100.0%); I do NOT want to be doing what I am currently doing (working in IT). It is just not my heart's desire to do this. I am grateful for my job and I don't despise it, but more often than not, it's a means to an end.

Is it odd or unheard of to attend seminary while determining one's call? Say, for instance, I pursue the MTS degree and later on decide (or determine) that I am called into full-time ministry; it would be no big deal to complete the requirements for the MDiv. However, if I don't feel called (or that call isn't confirmed externally), I will still have the MTS degree; if nothing else comes of it, I will (at the very least) be a well informed layman (maybe even elder material).

My main reason for wanting to attend seminary is to receive a formal and guided training in the Bible and theology. I have done a lot of self-teaching, but I crave the intellectual interchange and fellowship of the academic setting. I don't particularly like online or distance learning; I've tried it, but in my mind, nothing beats the live interchange of ideas and interacting with professors and fellow students.

Anyway, your thoughts would be appreciated!
Thanks!!!

__________________
Carl Gobelman
Long Grove Community Church (Evangelical)
Vernon Hills, IL
Blog: http://newcreationperson.wordpress.com

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come."

I see no problem with it at all.

__________________
Ivan R. Schoen, B.A., M.A., M.L.I.S.
Pastor of Maranatha Baptist Church (SBC)
Poplar Grove, IL, USA
http://maranatha-sbc.org

Some of us were even converted to the Reformed faith while in Seminary.

__________________
Benjamin P. Glaser, M. Div, Licentiate, Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church
Member Fairmount ARP Church
Pittsburgh, PA

Deo Vindice

I hope its ok, because I am in seminary will working on discerning the call to ministry. Blessings to you in your pursuits brother.

__________________
Michael P Doyle
Waukesha WI
Member of http://www.cornerstone-pca.com/
Attending http://www.lampseminary.org/

The knowledge you gain in Seminary should be valuable in what ever calling you ultimately find yourself.

__________________
Thomas Yeutter,
Mason, MI
Member St. Patrick's Anglican Church, Comstock, MI

Ezra 7:10 For Ezra had set his heart to study the law of the Lord and to do it and to teach its statues in Isreal.

I think many vocational ministers would only become 100% certain of their calling only after years of ministry. I would only say that if the college requires you to submit a call to ministry as a part of your application, that you be forthright with them. I went to seminary to gain a foundation in theology in preparation for further things (at that time I did not know what) and was the youngest to graduate with an MDiv. Looking back, a little more maturity on my part and a sense of particular direction after graduation would have helped me a lot.

__________________
Dennis Oh
Toronto, Canada
"The gospel is only good news if it gets there in time" -- Carl F. H. Henry

Yes, school is a place for learning and exploring. I was not entirely sure of a vocation to pastoral ministry until I was entering my third (senior) year at WSC in 1986.

As a sem prof I see that students frequently come to sem to find out their vocation. This is healthy. Seminary isn't a place merely to confirm what one already thinks.

__________________
R. Scott Clark, D.Phil
Westminster Seminary California
Associate Pastor, Oceanside URC
The Heidelcast Podcast
The Heidelblog

Enjoy the journey, Carl.

That was my thought exactly! When I initially went to college, I was so consumed with trying to get a vocation (I changed my major just about every semester), that I really didn't learn anything and ended up dropping out after 2.5 years. I went back to college 5 years later, but determined to get a quality education in a field I enjoyed. After one semester, I declared my major in philosophy and graduated with honors. I don't for a single instance regret my choice of major even though many look at it as purely academic. The way I saw it, I was getting an education. I can always get a job, but a quality education is something different entirely!

The same goes right now in my desire to go to seminary. My goals (in no particular order) are to get a quality education, grow in my faith and knowledge and (hopefully) get a clearer picture of where the Lord wants to use me. Sometimes, I really wish I had a Pauline or even a Lutherian experience (i.e., a clear, decisive call into ministry), but alas such experiences are not normative.

-----Added 11/2/2009 at 05:23:44 EST-----

Speaking personally (as I don't know of any other way to speak), it never occurs to me that others have had the same uncertainty as I have. Thank you for sharing your experience!

This isn't an answer to your question, but a question to further discussion ...

Does great knowledge come with great responsibility? Is it ok for someone to go to seminary and never serve in vocational ministry or an eldership?

Let's face it, theology is fascinating and intellectually stimulating - probably a big reason why most of us are on PB. Even though someone were to go to seminary without any intention of serving vocationally, he would most likely be influenced to take up ministry (hopefully you will just as influenced to consider missions as pastoral ministry, but I digress!)

Do you guys think that with the accumulation of theological insight comes a responsibility to teach and preach, or can we learn for its own sake?

I would tend to agree. "Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up" (1 Cor. 8:1). My intention is not to get a head full of knowledge as an end in itself, but as a means to an end.

My dream (going back to my 'unsaved' days) was to teach in a university setting. I can certainly see myself teaching in a seminary (or some other academic setting). I can also see myself pursuing pastoral ministry, though with less certainty. Serving the church in the capacity of deacon or elder is also on my radar. Unless God really plants a strong desire in me, I don't see missionary work in my future (not that I don't see the obvious importance of this ministry, but I don't think my particular 'gift' set is suited for that ministry)

Yes seminary professorship is definitely a possibility and I've contemplated that as well. However, in the best of scholars I have seen some some track record of a pastorate in their past or present ministry. I'm thinking of the Reformers, Edwards, Beeke, (maybe Piper and Sproul?), and basically all the church fathers. Theology is a work of the church and is ultimately practical afterall.

Not sure if a pastorate is considered some sort of pre-requisite to an effective seminary teaching post. I've known of seminaries (especially in Asia) who would never hire a prof who had no ministry experience.

anyway, food for thought.

I'm pretty sure it's of the devil.

__________________
Josh Hicks, Chloë's Dad
Christ Covenant Reformed Presbyterian Church, RPCGA
Facebook - The Calvinist Vent
Board Rules - Signature Rules - Suggestion Box

It is God that multiplies our sorrows.... God, as a righteous Judge, does it, which ought to silence us under all our sorrows; as many as they are, we have deserved them all, and more: nay, God, as a tender Father, does it for our necessary correction, that we may be humbled for sin, and weaned from the world by all our sorrows; and the good we get by them, with the comfort we have under them, will abundantly balance our sorrows, how greatly soever they are multiplied. - Matthew Henry

I've known a few grads who've become ruling elders. As a pastor in a congregation with a ruling elder who has a seminary education, it's a great blessing. I'm sure that many pastors would quite like to have a highly trained elder.

It's not just about coffee and arguments but ultimately it's about preparation for ministry.

In an age of appalling ignorance (broadly and in the church) we cannot have too many trained Christians.

That said, I don't know that seminary training brings an absolute obligation to ministry. If someone doesn't have a vocation from God, recognized by the church, one should not be in ministry.

It's not an either/or question. It's both/and. We need men who are trained AND who have a call.

I don't see why not. I'm hoping to attend seminary once I finish my bachelor's, but at the moment I have no specific calling to ministry. At this point I'm aiming to be an electrical engineering teacher. Theology is, you could say, a "hobby" of mine.

__________________
Jonathan
Audio Engineer
Reformed Anabaptist
Ohio

Moroni's magical glasses of proper interpretation:

I entered Bible college pursuing what I perceived to be a strong call to the ministry. After my first year and a half of college, my wife and I decided that I might have been a bit headstrong, and asked my Presbytery to put a hold on my candidature. I'm still in the process of finishing my course, and still enjoying it immensely. Just make sure you seek the Lord in prayer, constantly asking Him to mold and shape you into the man He desires you to be.

__________________
Vaughan
BTh Student, Presbyterian Theological Centre
Student Assistant, Ashfield Presbyterian Church
Sydney, Australia
The Ransomed

I'm hoping this is tongue firmly planted in cheek...

Consider the source! lol

Seminary can also expose you to different kinds of ministry. It can help focus you on what kind of ministry you are called or not called too. You'll meet pastors, church planters, foreign missionaries, professors, etc. all describing their experiences and struggles. It will give you some more things to reflect on and explore for yourself.

__________________
Patrick
MDiv, RTS Jackson
Pastor, Grace Presbyterian Church (OPC), Lisbon, NY

"He does well, that discourses of Christ; but he does infinitely better, that by experimental knowledge, feeds and lives on Christ." Thomas Brooks.
"Let us not please ourselves that we have deep understandings, but let us shew our understandings by our practice." Richard Sibbes

Well lets hope so. I am doing that right now. I entered seminary with a pretty clear cut idea of who I was and where I was going. Then I bought "The Acceptable Sacrifice" by John Bunyan and what I believed began to be changed.

Suffice to say, throughout the last year, I have been reformed in my thinking, whereas before I certainly was not. My life has been wrecked by God's grace and I realize that it is not my "call" but His. I am awaiting my marching orders.

__________________
Keith Gorman
Seminary student / ABA
Garland, TX

A minister may fill his pews, his communion roll, the mouths of the public, but what that minister is on his knees in secret before God Almighty, that he is and no more. ~ JOHN OWEN

The first semester of greek should help you decide if you are called to ministry.


JJ

__________________
Aaron Josh Wright
Deerbrook Baptist Church, Humble Tx
New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary

Our brother Aaron says first semester Greek. If you can make through first semester Hebrew you can do almost anything. I'll take Greek over Hebrew any day of the week. Believe me.

I believe you will be discerning your call everyday of your life. All ministers have good days and bad days, days of assurance and days of doubt, but so long as they turn to the Lord they may rest assured. Go and enjoy seminary. Mid-America is a really good seminary and you should be blessed to be there.

__________________
Jeff Wyman
Man Under Care
Little Farms Chapel OPC, Coopersville, MI
Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary

"Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other." - Isaiah 45:22 (ESV)

So true! I'm in first semester Hebrew and it's like I'm back in first grade. Whaa?!? That's a resh? I thought it was a dalet?" We had 4 guys drop after the first week. I equate the languages to organic chemistry for med school. People seem to discern they either do not have a call after those classes or discern they do have a call just not at a PCA/OPC church.

Enjoy your time in seminary. I preferred the classmates who didn't know what they were called into. I didn't! I knew there was a call but ironing that out was what I hoped would happen in seminary. The classmates who just knew that they knew who weren't already pastors were without question the worst preachers and exegetes. It's good not to know and just trust God to bring out your gifts.

__________________
Frank
Under Care
P.C.A.
Maryland

Yes, Friend, I was kidding.

I'm attending Seminary classes while I discern my call. I've received numerous external encouragement to the Pastoral ministry. Seminary is an excellent time for reflection and exposure to others with Pastoral experience.

__________________
Rich
PCA, Northern VA
Student, New Geneva Theological Seminary

WebsiteMaven - Web Hosting Reviews, Guides, and Advice to build and promote your web site.
SoliDeoGloria.com - A Community for Reformed Thought and Discussion

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Carl,

I'm thinking about MARS as well. I visited last semester and it was a good visit! Oh yeah, we're pretty much neighbors! I live a little north of you in Gurnee.

EJ

__________________
EJ
Reformed Baptist
Chicago, IL

A "god' whose will is resisted, whose designs are frustrated, whose purpose is checkmated, possesses no title to Deity, and so far from being a fit object of worship, merits nought but contempt.
A.W. Pink

I'm in the same boat Carl, I desire to be a pastor but until my qualifications and church calling match up to confirm that I will study toward being a theological teacher/writer.

This advice from all of you has been helpful to me as well

__________________
~ Charles Stephen Barribeau ~
Christ Presbyterian Church , OPC (They sing alot of Psalms!)
Original Westminster Standards (I need to study more...)
The Puritans were best! Also... I NEED TO READ MORE!!!
Philipians1:29(KJV) For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Janesville, Wisconsin (In the fellowship of Bob Vigneault and Matt+Megan Meisberger)

I think you should definetly go to seminary. It's obvious its deep in your desires to go there and that the Lord will give us the desires of our hearts.

I think that with this whole calling thing, it's really different for each individual. I would never have contemplated seminary nor started studying theology if God never showed me first that he was calling me to pastoral ministry but with you maybe you didn't need that kind of revelation so early because you already had the finances, theological knowledge and desire to go to seminary without a real solid call yet and maybe yours will come during seminary or you may simply fall into it by providence.

Regards,

Lee.

__________________
Lee Johnston
Church of Scotland (Presbyterian)
Paisley, Scotland
Ephesians 1:4-5
"In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will."

I am currently in the class, A Call to the Ministry, it is wonderfully introspective but at the same time I must admit this examination of my calling is painful. I am listening to Dr. Beeke`s lectures from PRTS and reading Clowney`s called to the ministry as well as one on one with my Pastor.

These things are important for the called to recognize the voice of the Caller.