New Saint Andrew's College

Davidius · #1 (**permalink**) 07-27-2007, 05:13 PM

Does anyone know much about this school in Moscow, ID? Some of its faculty are on board with the Federal Vision but I do not know whether this represents the schools as a whole. I ask because they are beginning a new Master of Studies in Classical Christian Education program and one option for employment I have considered is getting involved with the classical Christian education movement. If were to decide that I want to teach at a private classical Christian school, it doesn't seem like there could be a better program of graduate study. But the FV-ness makes me somewhat apprehensive. Any thoughts?

weinhold · #2 (**permalink**) 07-27-2007, 05:50 PM

If you want to teach in a classical high school, I would recommend a degree in a discipline rather than an education degree.

Davidius · #3 (**permalink**) 07-27-2007, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weinhold

If you want to teach in a classical high school, I would recommend a degree in a discipline rather than an education degree.

Wouldn't an education degree cover particular subject matter as well? I mean, this isn't like some whack-job "modern educational methods" degree from my current, God-hating university.

Ivanhoe · #4 (**permalink**) 07-27-2007, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarolinaCalvinist

Wouldn't an education degree cover particular subject matter as well? I mean, this isn't like some whack-job "modern educational methods" degree from my current, God-hating university.

An education degree is good only if you plan to teach in a public school. After Bush' No Child Left Behind, all teachers will eventually have to be certified by such a degree, godless/Christ-hating/whatever. I am currently working on such a certification from a conservative Baptist college.

A degree in foreign languages or business is much better than an education degree. Foreign langauges et al still allow you to teach. Education, taht is all you can do.

Davidius · #5 (**permalink**) 07-27-2007, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spear Dane

An education degree is good only if you plan to teach in a public school. After Bush' No Child Left Behind, all teachers will eventually have to be certified by such a degree, godless/Christ-hating/whatever. I am currently working on such a certification from a conservative Baptist college.

A degree in foreign languages or business is much better than an education degree. Foreign langauges et al still allow you to teach. Education, taht is all you can do.

Do you mean that the federal government will require private school teachers to have certain prescribed certification??

Philbeck · #6 (**permalink**) 07-27-2007, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarolinaCalvinist

Do you mean that the federal government will require private school teachers to have certain prescribed certification??

www.voteronpaul2008.com

toddpedlar · #7 (**permalink**) 07-27-2007, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarolinaCalvinist

Does anyone know much about this school in Moscow, ID? Some of its faculty are on board with the Federal Vision but I do not know whether this represents the schools as a whole. I ask because they are beginning a new Master of Studies in Classical Christian Education program and one option for employment I have considered is getting involved with the classical Christian education movement. If were to decide that I want to teach at a private classical Christian school, it doesn't seem like there could be a better program of graduate study. But the FV-ness makes me somewhat apprehensive. Any thoughts?

I wouldn't touch NSAC with a ten foot pole. Go get a good degree
in Classics (that's your undergraduate field, yes?) or Ancient Literature
as preparation. I suspect that you'd find the FV-ness oppressive (which, if
it is not utterly pervasive there, I would be shocked).

Todd

Ivanhoe · #8 (**permalink**) 07-27-2007, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarolinaCalvinist

Do you mean that the federal government will require private school teachers to have certain prescribed certification??

no. just public school teachers.

Davidius · #9 (**permalink**) 07-27-2007, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toddpedlar

I wouldn't touch NSAC with a ten foot pole. Go get a good degree
in Classics (that's your undergraduate field, yes?) or Ancient Literature
as preparation. I suspect that you'd find the FV-ness oppressive (which, if
it is not utterly pervasive there, I would be shocked).

Todd

My undergraduate field is technically German. I'm trying to find a way to add Classics as a second major but, since I decided I wanted to do that halfway into my undergraduate career, I'm having trouble figuring out how to make it work. It might require taking 10 semesters instead of 7 (I would be able to graduate a semester early if I stick with just German). Another option would be to do a post-baccalaureate program but that would require more money.

Of course I would find the FV-ness oppressive, but I suppose that the rampant secularism that I would find at other schools would be equally disagreeable...or maybe not?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spear Dane

no. just public school teachers.

I'm not interested in being a public school teacher, at least not at the primary or secondary levels.

Ivanhoe · #10 (**permalink**) 07-27-2007, 09:43 PM

Quote:

I'm not interested in being a public school teacher, at least not at the primary or secondary levels.

Then you don't need to worry about getting an education degree.

Unless..........you wanted to go into higher education. That is a lucrative and rewarding field, especially if you are a Baptist. There is a lot of Baptist money floating around in higher educatiion.

Pilgrim · #11 (**permalink**) 07-27-2007, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spear Dane

Then you don't need to worry about getting an education degree.

Unless..........you wanted to go into higher education. That is a lucrative and rewarding field, especially if you are a Baptist. There is a lot of Baptist money floating around in higher educatiion.

Of course one need not be a Baptist to teach at a Baptist school. One example that comes to mind is Roger Schultz at Liberty.

Pilgrim · #12 (**permalink**) 07-27-2007, 10:10 PM

Why would someone need a degree in education to go into higher ed unless they were going into administration or looking to teach education, etc.?

Ivanhoe · #13 (**permalink**) 07-27-2007, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

Why would someone need a degree in education to go into higher ed unless they were going into administration or looking to teach education, etc.?

I just thought it would look good.

bookslover · #14 (**permalink**) 07-27-2007, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toddpedlar

I wouldn't touch NSAC with a ten foot pole. Go get a good degree
in Classics (that's your undergraduate field, yes?) or Ancient Literature
as preparation. I suspect that you'd find the FV-ness oppressive (which, if
it is not utterly pervasive there, I would be shocked).

Todd

Not to mention that Doug Wilson and his whole group up there are weird. Oops, I just mentioned it...

Semper Fidelis · #15 (**permalink**) 07-28-2007, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarolinaCalvinist

Of course I would find the FV-ness oppressive, but I suppose that the rampant secularism that I would find at other schools would be equally disagreeable...or maybe not?

I can handle rampant secularism. It's Christian heterodoxy that I have the hardest time being around. There's also a "smartest Reformed guy in the room" attitude about this approach to the faith that leads to error.

I think you'd put yourself in peril over your orthodoxy going there. I highly recommend against it Brother.

Davidius · #16 (**permalink**) 07-28-2007, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemperFideles

I can handle rampant secularism. It's Christian heterodoxy that I have the hardest time being around. There's also a "smartest Reformed guy in the room" attitude about this approach to the faith that leads to error.

I think you'd put yourself in peril over your orthodoxy going there. I highly recommend against it Brother.

Thanks, Rich. After reading the responses and thinking about it some more I think I began to feel the same way about being able to handle rampant secularism over slippery Christian heterodoxy. As I previously noted in the prayer forum, I am having some trouble figuring out how I should finish up my time at UNC and what I should do after graduating and this was just a passing idea that came into mind while I was looking at the website for the Association of Classical Christian Schools.

R. Scott Clark · #17 (**permalink**) 07-28-2007, 10:43 AM

David,

There have been enough serious questions about events at NSA and there are serious questions about about the theology associated with the congregations and leadership associated with the school, that urge great caution.

We've had three NSA alumni at WSC. They have all been very bright, well-read and articulate. They are evidence that the classical model is a great improvement over what has been in use in the 20th century.

What we need is a college built on the classical model but that isn't hindered by the weird sociology and theology associated with NSA.

NSA is, so far as I know, the only college in the USA associated with the theology of the FV which has now been rejected by nearly all of the NAPARC churches, most recently by the URCNA. This is highly problematic for the confessional Reformed college student. What of chapel? Where will one attend church? The orthodox, confessional churches in the Pacific Northwest tell horror stories about the influence of the FV and the danger of the influence of the Muscovites.

There are a couple of "Great Books" schools that do something like the classical model. There are two campuses of St John's College. One is in Annapolis, MD and the other is in NM. I've known some grads and they've done well.

As to becoming a teacher, if I understand the question, most school districts require some sort of education degree or its equivalent. My brief experience with teachers' college was very disappointing. My wife still laughs at some of what she heard and was made to do to finish her program at university. I don't know if the Christian school systems require the Ed degree or whether a major in a particular subject is sufficient. There's something to be said for learning to teach but whether the teachers' college is the place to learn to teach is in doubt.

rsc

KMK · #18 (**permalink**) 07-28-2007, 12:18 PM

Public school teachers are required to have degrees and credentials accredited by the state. Private schools will also accept teachers with degrees and credentials accredited by the state. Not so conversely. Why not get a degree and a credential that is accredited by the state. This gives you more options. I would not recommend a young man as yourself with a future wife and hopefully children to make a vow that you will NEVER teach in a public school. Once you marry you are no longer your own. As John Lennon sang, "life is what happens while you're busy making other plans."

I hope I don't get censured for quoting Lennon...

Sincerely,

Ken Klein, husband and father and public school teacher

Ivanhoe · #19 (**permalink**) 07-28-2007, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMK

Public school teachers are required to have degrees and credentials accredited by the state. Private schools will also accept teachers with degrees and credentials accredited by the state. Not so conversely. Why not get a degree and a credential that is accredited by the state. This gives you more options. I would not recommend a young man as yourself with a future wife and hopefully children to make a vow that you will NEVER teach in a public school. Once you marry you are no longer your own. As John Lennon sang, "life is what happens while you're busy making other plans."

I hope I don't get censured for quoting Lennon...

Sincerely,

Ken Klein, husband and father and public school teacher

Wow. You just described what happened to me over the past year. I am going to PM you later.

fredtgreco · #20 (**permalink**) 07-28-2007, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMK

Public school teachers are required to have degrees and credentials accredited by the state. Private schools will also accept teachers with degrees and credentials accredited by the state. Not so conversely. Why not get a degree and a credential that is accredited by the state. This gives you more options. I would not recommend a young man as yourself with a future wife and hopefully children to make a vow that you will NEVER teach in a public school. Once you marry you are no longer your own. As John Lennon sang, "life is what happens while you're busy making other plans."

I hope I don't get censured for quoting Lennon...

Sincerely,

Ken Klein, husband and father and public school teacher

Keep in mind also that private school teachers can often make next to no money - making it nearly impossible to support a family. (I mean really low wages).

Why would we not want more Christians in public schools? I think you advice is very wise.

Davidius · #21 (**permalink**) 07-28-2007, 01:30 PM

I have a few other questions but I will PM them since they may veer off from the OP.

Poimen · #22 (**permalink**) 07-28-2007, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R. Scott Clark

David,
The orthodox, confessional churches in the Pacific Northwest tell horror stories about the influence of the FV and the danger of the influence of the Muscovites.

Yes; my advice: don't go!