Thread: Modular PhD @ SBTS

Anyone have any info with the modular PhD program at Southern Baptist?

SBTS – Ph.D. – Modular Format

This is the first I've heard of it!

Looking at the site, none of the currently offered concentrations would interest me.
That said, I can think of MANY Baptist Chaplains who would be interested in this.

This type of format would be perfect for me... I wish that a Reformed Seminary would do something like it.

Well...SBTS is as Calvinistic as a Reformed guy can hope for....HEY WAIT! Aren't you a SBTS grad?

I'm looking into their Christian Philosophy concentration. We'll see what the Lord has is store. I figured this would be the best option for those such as you in the chaplaincy. Since I pray that's where I'm headed this looks like a good alternative to the traditional route. Heck my whole college education has been non-traditional why stop now....

BTW which concentration are you interested in?

Originally Posted by SemperEruditio

Well...SBTS is as Calvinistic as a Reformed guy can hope for....HEY WAIT! Aren't you a SBTS grad?

I'm looking into their Christian Philosophy concentration. We'll see what the Lord has is store. I figured this would be the best option for those such as you in the chaplaincy. Since I pray that's where I'm headed this looks like a good alternative to the traditional route. Heck my whole college education has been non-traditional why stop now....

BTW which concentration are you interested in?

Yes, I am a graduate of Southern. I thoroughly enjoyed my time there. You are right in that many of the professors are unabashedly Calvinistic. If I was a Baptist - or a calvinistic credobaptist evangelical - Southern is hands down the best place to attend.

I wouldn't attend Southern for my PhD primarily because I'm not one to get multiple degrees from the same institution. I want to avoid the "inbreeding" that can occur when that happens.

My Bachelor's degree was from Moody - an independent dispensational school, my Master's degree was from SBTS - a Southern Baptist school ... my next degree is going to be from a Reformed school. To round out my formal education.

In terms of an emphasis, I'm interested in systematic theology.

The Army will pay for a DMin... this has caused me to look at RTS-Charlotte's DMin program that has an emphasis in theology, which is pretty unique for a DMin program.

Because I need a modular format, I'm leaning towards the DMin though I'd prefer a PhD... but if an accredited Reformed school (yes, I will only consider accredited institutions... not going to argue the point, that's just the way it is. Period.) - if an accredited Reformed school would follow SBTS's lead in this area, and offer an emphasis more inline with my interests... I'd be all over that.

Got it.

That incest I see all over the place at most seminaries. My focus is philosophy but if I am augmented then I am limited to a modular format. You know if the military will pay for a PhD that is modular?

Don't worry about the accreditation thing. The military won't pay if the school is not accredited heck if it's not accredited the school doesn't exist in the military's eyes but you know that.

Ben, have you sen this? Academics

Modular DMin from a Reformed Seminary.

Originally Posted by Kevin

Ben, have you sen this? Academics

Modular DMin from a Reformed Seminary.

Yes I have.

Thoughts?

Originally Posted by Kevin

Thoughts?

About the DMin program from Erskine?

It is a very chaplain friendly program - many of the "core" classes are waived based upon credit given for our military work.

There are a few other institutions that waive core class requirements for chaplains - TEDS being the most memorable to me - but Erskine is the only one of which I'm aware that is (supposedly) Reformed.

And that parenthetical supposedly is precisely why I'm not interested.

Ouch!!

Having taken several classes from Erskine prof's, I'm surprised to learn that they are only "supposedly" Reformed.

Kevin - The way I see it... any school that a Methodist or ELCA or AoG can attend with no gripes or complaints on the part of the students... (I know chaplains of these denominations who've gone there)... well... that school isn't Reformed enough for my blood.

As someone looking at seminaries I agree with you Ben.

Originally Posted by Grillsy

As someone looking at seminaries I agree with you Ben.

About what? Everything? Sweet.

Everything really. That you have mentioned is this post any school that a Methodist or ELCA or AoG can attend with no gripes or complaints on the part of the students" especially that part.

-----Added 7/10/2009 at 12:55:06 EST-----

You see my undergrad was done at a Campbellite University that was really strict with its heretical doctrine when I started. By the time I left they were all inclusive which oddly...made everything much much worse.

What can I say? You know someone that didn't complain.

That is a ringing indictment!

I have met several of the prof's, have taken classes from a couple, and heard a few more preach. If an AoG guy could sit through the classes I took & not notice the disconect with his (stated) theology then who am I to correct him.

I have noticed over the years that classes I have taken have often included student from outside the tradition of the instructor. Sometimes I have been that student! As a presbyterian I never doubted the value of the baptist prof that taught me a particular subject.

BTW Ben, didn't you take your BA at a dispy school (as I did)? and your MDiv at a Baptist school? And now a Presbyterian school is not "Reformed" enough??

I am not recruiting for ES, but your criticism (it seems to me) hits below the belt.

Originally Posted by Kevin

What can I say? You know someone that didn't complain.

That is a ringing indictment!

I have met several of the prof's, have taken classes from a couple, and heard a few more preach. If an AoG guy could sit through the classes I took & not notice the disconect with his (stated) theology then who am I to correct him.

I have noticed over the years that classes I have taken have often included student from outside the tradition of the instructor. Sometimes I have been that student! As a presbyterian I never doubted the value of the baptist prof that taught me a particular subject.

BTW Ben, didn't you take your BA at a dispy school (as I did)? and your MDiv at a Baptist school? And now a Presbyterian school is not "Reformed" enough??

I am not recruiting for ES, but your criticism (it seems to me) hits below the belt.

I think what he is saying is that NOW he is going for a school that is as Reformed as can be and a school that fits his criteria. He said the was trying to be "well-rounded".

Originally Posted by Kevin

What can I say? You know someone that didn't complain.

That is a ringing indictment!

I have met several of the prof's, have taken classes from a couple, and heard a few more preach. If an AoG guy could sit through the classes I took & not notice the disconect with his (stated) theology then who am I to correct him.

I have noticed over the years that classes I have taken have often included student from outside the tradition of the instructor. Sometimes I have been that student! As a presbyterian I never doubted the value of the baptist prof that taught me a particular subject.

BTW Ben, didn't you take your BA at a dispy school (as I did)? and your MDiv at a Baptist school? And now a Presbyterian school is not "Reformed" enough??

I am not recruiting for ES, but your criticism (it seems to me) hits below the belt.

Kevin - You're asking for offense. You asked what I thought of the DMin offered to chaplains from Erskine and I told you. Please chill. I'm looking for something very specific at this point. Erskine is not it. None of the feedback I've received from the MANY liberal and charismatic chaplains I know who've attended there has given me the impression that I would want it on my resume. If you like the profs - great! Then you go there. I am in no way wanting to tell another man where to pursue his education.

Besides - I thought I mentioned this near the top. I'm not looking for any old DMin program. EVERY DMin program is modular. Most DMin programs do not interest me because they're focused on a "practical" skill. The RTS-Charlotte one stands out as actually being focused on Reformed Theology. So in that sense it is "impractical." I don't really want a DMin at all - I'd much prefer a PhD - but I need the modular format.
-----Added 7/10/2009 at 02:49:42 EST-----

Originally Posted by Grillsy

Originally Posted by Kevin

What can I say? You know someone that didn't complain.

That is a ringing indictment!

I have met several of the prof's, have taken classes from a couple, and heard a few more preach. If an AoG guy could sit through the classes I took & not notice the disconect with his (stated) theology then who am I to correct him.

I have noticed over the years that classes I have taken have often included student from outside the tradition of the instructor. Sometimes I have been that student! As a presbyterian I never doubted the value of the baptist prof that taught me a particular subject.

BTW Ben, didn't you take your BA at a dispy school (as I did)? and your MDiv at a Baptist school? And now a Presbyterian school is not "Reformed" enough??

I am not recruiting for ES, but your criticism (it seems to me) hits below the belt.

I think what he is saying is that NOW he is going for a school that is as Reformed as can be and a school that fits his criteria. He said the was trying to be "well-rounded".

Exactly. I went to Moody an evangelical... and became a Reformed Baptist. I went to Southern and became a Presbyterian. My education has led me to being progressively more Reformed. I want to pursue my terminal degree at an institution that will really try me in that regard.

Just my , but I think you guys might be talking past one another.

I am an Erskine grad (M.Div. 2004), and I have no problem saying the program is Reformed. The majority of the profs are either ARP or PCA, for instance. There are a couple PC(USA) folks, a (non-Reformed) Baptist (who is an excellent teacher otherwise) on faculty, but by-and-large you know who not to take for classes if you have a problem with this. I sat through certain classes (e.g., Systematic Theology, Ethics) in which there were non-Reformed students in class, and trust me there is MUCH complaining and griping. MUCH. As a personal anecdote, I knew I did not want to take a certain prof for NT; I signed up for a PCA prof teaching the class instead. There weren't as many folks in our class, because the non-Reformed students did not want to take the PCA guy (too Reformed for them -- particularly on women's issues -- and too hard for them).

But Ben is specifically talking about the chaplains D. Min. program. I cannot speak to that, except to say that I am not overly impressed with what I've read of the D.Min. program (the general program at least) at Erskine (the worship D.Min. program being a notable experienced). I can see why certain types might not gripe, as they would not be "forced" to take certain classes that would outside of their non-Reformed traditions. Plus, the profs in that program are not the same as in the M.Div. program.

If I were near the Charlotte area, I would be interested in the RTS program as well. However, this Ph.D. modular program at SBTS has now piqued my interest.

So I take it no one has any experience with SBTS' Modular PhD.

Okay... anyone have any opinions on this type of PhD? I know of another baptist school who has a modular PhD. They are a dispy school and you have to agree to it...

I was just wondering what others think of this type of program. I think it's a great thing but I wonder as to the type of scholarship it produces. I notice they have chosen fields which lend themselves to independent research, more specifically philosophy.

What opine you?

Originally Posted by SemperEruditio

Anyone have any info with the modular PhD program at Southern Baptist?

SBTS – Ph.D. – Modular Format

I can't find what the entrance requirements are. Any idea?

My assumption is the requirements are the same as those for the traditional PhD. However Dr. Lawless' words here make me wonder:

Originally Posted by Dr. Lawless

We still encourage students to move to our campus, but qualified students now serving in ministry away from Louisville may attend PhD classes for four weeks a year...

Not sure but the "qualified" and "now serving in ministry" make me wonder. Is the qualified just mean qualified for the PhD or for the modular PhD? Does one have to be "now serving?" If so, for how many years?

I emailed one of the counselors so we'll see.

Originally Posted by Marrow Man

But Ben is specifically talking about the chaplains D. Min. program. I cannot speak to that, except to say that I am not overly impressed with what I've read of the D.Min. program (the general program at least) at Erskine (the worship D.Min. program being a notable difference). I can see why certain types might not gripe, as they would not be "forced" to take certain classes that would outside of their non-Reformed traditions. Plus, the profs in that program are not the same as in the D.Min. program.

Tim, you bring up a good point: My only "exposure" to a/the and DMin program at Erskine has been word of mouth from the various army chaplains I've met. I grant that it is highly probable that the DMin program oriented towards chaplains takes into account the high degree of theological diversity within the chaplaincy and then finds away to provide an education while stepping on as few toes as possible. So it is entirely possible that a non-chaplain oriented program could be entirely different.

Originally Posted by SolaScriptura

Originally Posted by Marrow Man

But Ben is specifically talking about the chaplains D. Min. program. I cannot speak to that, except to say that I am not overly impressed with what I've read of the D.Min. program (the general program at least) at Erskine (the worship D.Min. program being a notable difference). I can see why certain types might not gripe, as they would not be "forced" to take certain classes that would outside of their non-Reformed traditions. Plus, the profs in that program are not the same as in the D.Min. program.

Tim, you bring up a good point: My only "exposure" to a/the and DMin program at Erskine has been word of mouth from the various army chaplains I've met. I grant that it is highly probable that the DMin program oriented towards chaplains takes into account the high degree of theological diversity within the chaplaincy and then finds away to provide an education while stepping on as few toes as possible. So it is entirely possible that a non-chaplain oriented program could be entirely different.

Another possibility is that if chaplains are receiving credit for military training and the military is paying for the DMin then the chaplains might not care about differences in theology or the like.

-----Added 7/10/2009 at 12:12:16 EST-----

Just received a reply from the school.

Originally Posted by SBTS Admin Counselor

What are the requirements? Are they any different than the
traditional PhD?
The requirements for the modular format are identical to the traditional format.

Do I have to be currently serving in ministry to apply?
No…Because the PhD is a research degree, it is not a requirement that you be serving in vocational ministry. You may even complete the degree in residence, but simply completing the seminars in a modular format.

How long is the didactic portion?
It will consist of eight course seminars (4 in major, and usually 2 in each minor), 2 research seminars, and 2 research language requirements. Typically, the format is arranged to finish the coursework in 2 years and then write your dissertation after comprehensive exams.

Originally Posted by SolaScriptura

Originally Posted by Marrow Man

But Ben is specifically talking about the chaplains D. Min. program. I cannot speak to that, except to say that I am not overly impressed with what I've read of the D.Min. program (the general program at least) at Erskine (the worship D.Min. program being a notable difference). I can see why certain types might not gripe, as they would not be "forced" to take certain classes that would outside of their non-Reformed traditions. Plus, the profs in that program are not the same as in the D.Min. program.

Tim, you bring up a good point: My only "exposure" to a/the and DMin program at Erskine has been word of mouth from the various army chaplains I've met. I grant that it is highly probable that the DMin program oriented towards chaplains takes into account the high degree of theological diversity within the chaplaincy and then finds away to provide an education while stepping on as few toes as possible. So it is entirely possible that a non-chaplain oriented program could be entirely different.

I think this is indeed the sticking point. I believe Erskine has three different D.Min. type degrees -- a general D.Min., a chaplain-specific D.Min., and a D.Min. in Reformed Worship (the Hughes Old-led program). The only one that would really interest me is the latter, but it is completely different from the first two. I would think that the first two would have a great deal of overlap. One thing that would bother me (were I a chaplain) is the clinical/counseling requirement for that degree. It seems to be very secular from what I know, but perhaps someone else could speak to it. I am not sure how common it is for chaplain-specific programs to include that type of coursework, or even if it is "required" in those programs.

The one positive thing that ETS would have going for it is that R.J. Gore is still on faculty there, and he serves (or was until recently) as an army chaplain, so he would be very sympathetic to the concerns of chaplains. I would suspect this would be true at some other schools, but I am not sure how prolific that would be.