I visited Talbot BIOLAs Seminary this week for an information session about their MA degrees. I was confused about one degree the Master of Arts in Spiritual Formation and Soul Care. No I am not looking to go for it but I was curious as to what is the point of it.

You can find the curriculum here.



These are sample of the courses:


It seems weird to me. How exactly does one "develop spiritually"? Is this some christian buzz word for praying for or something? I know that several christian movements like my old one at Calvary Chapel used to the whole experiencing God or have a deeper relationship with Jesus. I don't even know what means.

Everyone please stick to the links I send and not move around because of possible 2nd commandment violations.

__________________
Julio Perez
Visting Branch of Hope OPC hoping this will be my home church.....


“No…we are all priests. Your vocation and your contentment in your vocation should not be dependent upon your being in vocational ministry or in being a figure of public acclaim. If God wills that fine…if He does not do that, you ought to still do what he has granted you to do to the glory of God.”

-Martin Luther

It sounds like a program designed for lay leaders, rather than preachers. I have never heard the term Soul Care used before.

By the way, watch out for 2nd commandment violations on a couple of those pages.

__________________
Matt
Reformed Baptist
Christ Community Church

Soul care is often associated with "spiritual disciplines" and counseling.

__________________
Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

I'm sorry I hope I didnt violate any of the rules by mistake based on the links. Ill remove them upon request. I didn't see any violations please Mods let me know if there is.

I think as long as everyone doesn't move to the other pages on the site they should be fine and they stick to the links I sent.

Not everyone at BIOLA is happy with the existence of these programs.

__________________
Seth Stark
Member, Communion Presbyterian Church (ARP), Irvine, CA
Biola University, Graduate Student, M.A. - Science and Religion
Seth's Blog

I assumed so. There was a lot of the comteporary Christian trends by some of the students "The Lord guided me to do ____" and "he spoke to me ____."

How do you like the MA in Science and Religion? I know it's a very tiny program.

The fact that a course based on the methods of St. John of the Cross should be reason enough to be greatly concerned... what BIOLA is doing teaching about spirituality by using the work of a Roman Catholic gnostic and mystic is beyond my ability to comprehend.

"Spiritual Formation" is one of these catch-phrases that has arisen in the decades since Richard Foster's work in the 60's... the emphasis is on "deepening" the relationship with God by certain practices deemed to "bring you closer". While SOME of the practices are good (more Bible reading, more meditation on Scripture), they tend to be unbalanced in seeking "more of the spirit" in a mystical way (e.g. 'silent' or 'contemplative' prayer, focused fasting, etc.). Rather than emphasize the regular and dedicated practice of the means of grace God has given His church to grow spiritually, these practices often morph into almost an eastern religious bent. (and hence tend to be VERY popular among some, particularly postmoderns)

I'd avoid this like the plague (and am glad at least SOME at Biola are unhappy about the existence of the program).

__________________
Todd K. Pedlar
member, First Congregational Church, (CCCC) Cresco, IA
http://inprincipiodeus.solideogloria.com
http://puritanwisdom.blogspot.com

"As God did not at first choose you because you were high, He will not now forsake you because you are low."
John Flavel in Keeping the Heart



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Why are you looking at a dispensational school instead of reformed?

Talbot School of Theology: Doctrinal Statement

__________________
Edward
Deacon
PCA
Texas

Again I am not thinking about siging up for this program but an MA in Theology or possibly MDiv.

As far as why I am looking into Talbot is because of location. Talbot is closer to me more than any other Reformed Seminary and I want to work while I go to school. Not to mention WSC schedule is not very flexible even if its really far away from me.

.

Wow ... I'm ... speechless ....

Sounds cultish, doesn't it? I mean, I'm not saying BIOLA is a cult. I don't even know what BIOLA is. But 'spiritual guides' ..? Hiding nothing and attending to their direction ...? I get the impulse to shriek, "Don't drink the Kool-Aid!"

__________________
Caroline
OPC
Schenectady, NY
Blog: The Unlikely Calvinist

THE Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, KY offers this degree:

SBTS – Ph.D. – Biblical Spirituality

__________________
Ivan R. Schoen, B.A., M.A., M.L.I.S.
Pastor of Maranatha Baptist Church (SBC)
Poplar Grove, IL, USA
http://maranatha-sbc.org

Well, Fuller isn't that far away, and they are probably liberal enough to tolerate Reformed views.

If memory serves me, Fuller also had a M.A. with a similar title. They still have one in "Recovery Ministries."

A simple Google search will show how many schools have a M.A. in "spiritual formation."

Some add "soul care" (Biola), others append the term "discipleship" (Moody).

While I am quick to critique the trendy directions in American theological education, this one may be a bit more benign. In places like Moody and Biola, "Spiritual Formation" seems to be preferred title to "Christian ed." It seems as if the changes take place in the church before the academy in this instance.

An analogue is seen in the area of music. When I was a kid, we called them "choir directors." Then they were "ministers of music." After that the evangelical nomenclature favored "worship pastor." And now, Fuller has a masters in "Worship Theology and the Arts" in token of the most recent change of title to "minister of worship arts" that seems to have taken the field.

(Cf. "Reverend" to "minister" to "pastor" to "senior pastor" to the current term of art: "lead pastor").

When I was young, the field of usually non-preaching but full-time ordained clergy was filled by people typically holding a M.A.R. (master of arts in religion) or M.A. in Religious Education. In time the area was known as Christian Education (Christian ed, or C.E.). Today the title for the role is often called "Pastor of Family Life." My eldest son was a full time "Pastor for Student Ministries" for more than a decade before his church shifted his role to "Family Life Pastor." What does that mean? It means he is the "C.E. guy" who supervises the hundreds of kids in their children's ministries as well as adult education for the church (and preaching about 1/3 of the time). By the way, he teaches Christian Education at Moody as an adjunct. If it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, . . .

I will grant, however, that some of these "spiritual formation" programs put emphasis upon Richard Foster type courses. If they are not careful, they will go in the directions you fear.

__________________
Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

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I'm not sure what I am going to do yet. WSC is my first choice, after the dissapointment in Talbot I am not sure I even want to check APUs MA programs.

Fuller is more of a PhD school for me.

*cough* *sputter* *choke*

Fuller over BIOLA? Seriously?!? No, my friend, at Biola, with all its faults, the Bible is still regarded as inerrant, so even if you disagree with a professor on some topic (like dispensationalism), you can both go to Scripture to see what it says.

Can the same be said of Fuller? No.

Biola has its faults, but it is light years above Fuller in the authority of Scripture.

Further, having been at Biola (as a grad student) for two years now, I can attest to the fact that there are several, good, Calvinist (I don't use the term 'reformed' because of eschatology and baptism differences) professors, and if you know who to take, you will get a great reformed education.

-----Added 6/29/2009 at 12:18:07 EST-----

I can answer why I chose Biola over a reformed graduate school: because Biola is doing the work that reformed schools are not. No reformed school had a degree in Science and Religion or the History and Philosophy of Science. I couldn't even find another conservative evangelical school that offered these programs.

What Seth said.

BTW, having interviewed/examined hundreds of FTS grads and nearly a hundred Talbot (Biola) grads for ordination, one could do a LOT worse. They are committed to an inerrant Bible, know how to exegete, can teach, can preach, and generally make quite good pastors. Yes, there is that pesky dispensational issue. However, I would rather see a fellow graduate from a good dispi school and move to Reformed theology than graduate from a liberal Reformed school without a commitment to inerrancy.

It is a tiny program, but I love it. Courses are taught from a christian worldview. If you are interested in the history and/or philosophy of science, it is a great program. Also, there is a lot of cross-over with Talbot in the theology courses you take, which I also enjoy a lot. If you are interested in the program, let me know. I'd be happy to answer any questions you've got. I highly recommend the MASR program and BIOLA, but you also have to be discerning in which professors you study under.

Doesn't Biola/Talbot also reject feminism for the most part? I know Saucey does.

__________________


http://www.villagecommunitychurch.org/


"Preparing a sermon is like cooking a meal. You need pots and pans and utensils, but you don't bring them out to the table where people are eating." Derek Thomas


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Yes. They are complementarian, not egalitarian when it comes to the role(s) of women.