Living while at Seminary

Miller · #1 (**permalink**) 11-24-2007, 10:36 AM

I've been looking at WSC and plan on going to seminary in the coming years and I was curious how do you guys that are in seminary do it? Especially those with children and considering that everyone I have talked has told me that having a job and going to seminary is almost impossible, how do you make it through those years?

jawyman · #2 (**permalink**) 11-24-2007, 10:45 AM

Very part-time jobs, scholarships and church support. Since you are OPC, when you come under care there is the possibility of some support from your presbytery.

Guido's Brother · #3 (**permalink**) 11-24-2007, 04:13 PM

Men in our churches work during the summer months and some work during the school year. In my last couple of years at seminary I was able to teach catechism and make some extra money off of that. Preaching in my last year also pulled in a bit of income. But in the end, a lot of men need some kind of help, whether with student loans, family assistance or church assistance. In our classis, we have a Committee for Theological Students which has a proactive mandate to make sure that our theological students receive financial aid if they need it.

sgs1973 · #4 (**permalink**) 11-24-2007, 04:30 PM

Brother,
Don't feel like a 3 year program is necessary...it is better to get out in 4 years and keep your wife. I did alot of jobs, sometimes having to change each semister because my schedule changed...look frist for church jobs/ministry, then for a job that might let you study some. You are one of many in a simular situation...often the school will have some ideas and work opportunities...and it is not wrong to ask for help from your church. Our church helps our seminary students....understanding that if they borrow money it is not likely that their income after graduation will be such as will make loan repayment easy.

Ivan · #5 (**permalink**) 11-24-2007, 04:40 PM

I don't know how it is now in our Southern Baptist seminaries, but when I started at SWBTS in '78 a student that was a Southern Baptist had a number of benefits. One, the Cooperative Program picked up the majority of the tab (I think I paid under $200 a semester). Along with that the seminary gave many students on-campus jobs (along with their spouses). Finally, the modest but adequate housing was very inexpensive.

My wife and I were not parents during most of time we were in seminary. Also, my wife got a nice paying job at Texas Christian University. I worked many hours (as many as I was alllowed) at seminary. I worked in the AV Library. A good deal of the time the activity was so light at work that I was allowed to study while working.

God was very good to us.

ReadBavinck · #6 (**permalink**) 11-24-2007, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgs1973

Brother,
Don't feel like a 3 year program is necessary...it is better to get out in 4 years and keep your wife. I did alot of jobs, sometimes having to change each semister because my schedule changed...look frist for church jobs/ministry, then for a job that might let you study some. You are one of many in a simular situation...often the school will have some ideas and work opportunities...and it is not wrong to ask for help from your church. Our church helps our seminary students....understanding that if they borrow money it is not likely that their income after graduation will be such as will make loan repayment easy.

I currently attend WSC and am on the four-year plan with a wife and baby (at home). Here's a few thoughts:

From my own experience and observations it seems like unless you have 1) a really excellent paying part-time job, 2) an amazing scholarship/grant, 3) a supportive wife employed full-time in a good job, or 4) a full-time job with the seminary in one their administrative positions (these are very rare), then you must take out some (varying) amount of loans.

It seems like most everyone here has a combination of ways to finance what they do including those who can meet one of these categories. Most use some sort of combination of creative housing, donations, scholarships, loans, church help, family help, a variety of part-time/seasonal jobs, and internships. This means that generally there is no easy answer. So it can be complicated, but is well worth the effort.

Make sure you check out The Fund for Theological Education.

Also, an often remembered, but rarely practiced option is: thrift and savings and time management. For most people, including me, these are VERY hard to do. They are skills to be learned. But imagine the benefit of learning them well for future ministry, not to mention life in general.

BTW, the summer internship I had last summer in the OPC was great for a lot of reasons including meeting all my financial needs for the summer with a little extra left over.

I currently teach music lessons part-time (10-12hrs/week) and play the occasional gig to make money. If you can do this I highly recommend it.

Romans922 · #7 (**permalink**) 11-24-2007, 06:47 PM

I am doing my seminary education in 3 1/2 years (Lord willing; I have 1 semester left). Right now I work in the cafeteria (free meal for lunch), work in the library (free study time), which both of these are work study. I also have the internship at my church and I help a guy cut trees all day on Saturdays. Plus I preach pretty regularly on Sundays.

How do I do it? Discipline. People say they can't do it? I would say most of them just haven't challenged themselves and/or become disciplined enough to do it. Many people my age play video games and waste their time. They get scholarships from their church or what not. I don't, I have had to work which has made me disciplined to get all work done. You can do it, if you want to do it. You can even go to school longer than than me, and it will all work out. God provides, He always does. People who have kids, I would still suggest getting a job but maybe taking a little longer to do the job. However I know two men with 5 kids and 2 kids who have gone through in the same amount of time as me.

Puritan Sailor · #8 (**permalink**) 11-24-2007, 07:01 PM

We saved up some money for about 2 years leading up to semimary. I also have a well paying part-time job as an RN in the ER with enough flexibility usually to work part-time during seminary and full time during the breaks. Working night shift also gave me some down time to study while at work (though this varied depending on how busy the ER was). We also have some church support which helps out immensely, plus a scholarship where if you're church gives at least a third of the tuition, then the seminary will give another third, which means I pay about 1/3 of the tuition. I also work a part-time internship this year and fill a vacant pulpit about once a month which gives a little financial help. My wife doesn't work but stays home with the kids. I also had to extend my seminary time an extra semester, as well as take summer classes to make the regular semesters lighter. But, I also am grateful for the much lower standard of living here in Jackson, MS. If I were to go to WSC (which was my second choice) there was no way financially we could have done it without going into severe debt. As it stands now, I will finish in May (Lord willing) with no debt (but very little left in savings). This year in particular has been straining, but the Lord has provided all our needs, and blessed me with a great job while in seminary.

One other mistake we made, looking back on it, is that we bought a house here. It seemed good at the time, to help build some equity. There are wonderful benefits to having your own home, like privacy and space. You're not living in the seminary fishbowl. But, it also means greater bills and now with the housing market potentially slowing down (though not in MS yet), it may be an obstacle if we get a call soon. Looking back we probably would have stayed in the seminary housing because we would have saved more money. And also, there are some benefits of fellowship living with your fellow students that we do miss out on. But the Lord has used all these struggles for our good so I can't complain. Just providing some things for you're consideration.

Puritan Sailor · #9 (**permalink**) 11-24-2007, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romans922

How do I do it? Discipline. People say they can't do it? I would say most of them just haven't challenged themselves and/or become disciplined enough to do it.

Couldn't agree more about the discipline. I have no sympathy for the young single guys in seminary who complain they don' t have any time. What til they get married and have kids. Then they will see how little time they have.

weinhold · #10 (**permalink**) 11-24-2007, 07:40 PM

Two Words: Ramen Noodles

BJClark · #11 (**permalink**) 11-24-2007, 11:26 PM

Here is a scholarship that is also offered to Ministry students...so maybe one of you fine gentlemen could apply for and recieve this scholarship...

Am I eligible?
If you're currently attending or planning to attend a post-high school educational program, the answer is probably "yes." The Mesothelioma Memorial Scholarship is open to all students attending not only traditional colleges (four-year and two-year institutions), but also vocational/technical programs, continuing education, ministry training and job skills training programs.

college scholarship application, college scholarships

Miller · #12 (**permalink**) 11-25-2007, 12:21 AM

Thank you for all the replies. I have had to come to terms with the fact that I will have to do a 4 year plan and also that I might should wait a couple years after getting my bachelors (this August) to work work work. It's funny playing music was mentioned because I have seriously considered that. I love traditional country music and my father's a Cowboy Church preacher so I'd have an easy in and he says they pay 500 bucks a gig not to mention there are over 150 of church's in Texas, but that wouldn't help to much in Escondido.

SolaScriptura · #13 (**permalink**) 11-25-2007, 08:50 AM

One option - it worked for me - would be to become a part of the chaplain candidate program. There is no obligation on your part... but during semester breaks you can go work at the nearest army installation and get paid as an officer. I was able to work about 100 days a year and I made about $20-25k per year. That, plus my wife's part time job... we were just fine.

IF you decide you'd like to be a chaplain in the Reserves, they'll pay a good chunk of your schooling PLUS give you a 10k bonus when you finish your degree.

If you're looking for a parttime gig that will enable you to provide health benefits for you and your family, I can think of nothing better than UPS. They work you to the bone while you're there, but they have great pay and benefits... plus, they have a very lenient approach to military participation. If you were to couple a UPS job with the Chaplain Candidate program you could very easily make $40k or more per year.
Just an option.

3John2 · #14 (**permalink**) 11-27-2007, 01:01 AM

Christopher you teach music part time? Cool!! I teach guitar & piano full time. I currently have over 60 students & gig 3 times a week doing an acoustic duet. Still praying & hoping in about 3-4 years to attend PRTS.

mr_burns · #15 (**permalink**) 11-27-2007, 08:01 AM

Miller,
Everyone had really great advice here. I'm in a similar situation. I have a wife and 2 kids and am planning on attending seminary in January (RTS Orlando). It has been a dream of mine for 7 years and we're finally taking the dive. I have so much to say on this subject that I actually started a website as a ministry to people like you and me. This site is Going to Seminary - A Resource for Men and Women Choosing or Attending a Christian Theological Seminary and it is a collection on all my thoughts, advice, and information I've found about going to seminary. I've tried to collect a bunch of scholarship and job information, as well as deal with stress issues and challenges that families will face. Take a look and let me know if anything I said helps.

Semper Fidelis · #16 (**permalink**) 11-27-2007, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivan

I don't know how it is now in our Southern Baptist seminaries, but when I started at SWBTS in '78 a student that was a Southern Baptist had a number of benefits. One, the Cooperative Program picked up the majority of the tab (I think I paid under $200 a semester). Along with that the seminary gave many students on-campus jobs (along with their spouses). Finally, the modest but adequate housing was very inexpensive.

My wife and I were not parents during most of time we were in seminary. Also, my wife got a nice paying job at Texas Christian University. I worked many hours (as many as I was alllowed) at seminary. I worked in the AV Library. A good deal of the time the activity was so light at work that I was allowed to study while working.

God was very good to us.

Talking to a recent grad, this is still very much the case with Southern Baptist Seminaries. I really have to hand it to the SBC, they really do support folks seeking the pastorate. Of course, millions of members helps but I believe the ideal would be that a man would not have to worry about how he's going to support his family or go into massive debt in order to prepare for ministry.

Ivan · #17 (**permalink**) 11-27-2007, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemperFideles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivan

I don't know how it is now in our Southern Baptist seminaries, but when I started at SWBTS in '78 a student that was a Southern Baptist had a number of benefits. One, the Cooperative Program picked up the majority of the tab (I think I paid under $200 a semester). Along with that the seminary gave many students on-campus jobs (along with their spouses). Finally, the modest but adequate housing was very inexpensive.

My wife and I were not parents during most of time we were in seminary. Also, my wife got a nice paying job at Texas Christian University. I worked many hours (as many as I was alllowed) at seminary. I worked in the AV Library. A good deal of the time the activity was so light at work that I was allowed to study while working.

God was very good to us.

Talking to a recent grad, this is still very much the case with Southern Baptist Seminaries. I really have to hand it to the SBC, they really do support folks seeking the pastorate. Of course, millions of members helps but I believe the ideal would be that a man would not have to worry about how he's going to support his family or go into massive debt in order to prepare for ministry.

It was my impression that things were much the same, although prices have changed since 1981!

If I were a young man in a Southern Baptist church and was called to the ministry, I would make a beeline to Southern Seminary! And I'm a Southwestern graduate!

Dena · #18 (**permalink**) 11-28-2007, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romans922

I am doing my seminary education in 3 1/2 years (Lord willing; I have 1 semester left). Right now I work in the cafeteria (free meal for lunch), work in the library (free study time), which both of these are work study. I also have the internship at my church and I help a guy cut trees all day on Saturdays. Plus I preach pretty regularly on Sundays.

How do I do it? Discipline. People say they can't do it? I would say most of them just haven't challenged themselves and/or become disciplined enough to do it. Many people my age play video games and waste their time. They get scholarships from their church or what not. I don't, I have had to work which has made me disciplined to get all work done. You can do it, if you want to do it. You can even go to school longer than than me, and it will all work out. God provides, He always does. People who have kids, I would still suggest getting a job but maybe taking a little longer to do the job. However I know two men with 5 kids and 2 kids who have gone through in the same amount of time as me.

I will add to my husband's post:

I'm sure its "easier" for us since there are two of us, no kids, and i "get" to work full time, as opposed to someone who is single or someone who is married with kids. I feel pretty comfortable saying "we wouldn't be able to do seminary" if I wasn't able to work outside the home full time right now.

Other suggestions from our personal experience include the following:

You can't expect to have much or any "expendable income" while you're in seminary...or I'd argue paying for any type of school, for that matter. Then again, I know a lot of single students still get tons o money from mom and daddy. Still, I know a lot of people take out school loans and are in debt up to their eyeballs, and so I'm shocked when they have all this extra money for dining out, concerts, traveling, etc. This is not reality. lol. At least, not when you have only your "own" money that you're making while trying to get through school without accumulating debt. So I would suggest being very strict with a budget if you plan to go to seminary. Cut your costs down to bare minimums. It helps that we don't buy expensive food, don't eat out (except once in a blue moon), shop sales, etc etc etc. I can't stress enough how much I suggest being wise and careful with money.

Work as much as you can. (Within reason). And spend as little as you can. Be so tight you squeak and people think you're crazy. Live on beans and rice, rice and beans (I heart Dave Ramsey.)

Yes, discipline is a huge factor.

If you can get financial support from churches, etc, DO IT! Ask ask ask around, and look for it!

Those are the suggestions I have.

Kevin · #19 (**permalink**) 11-28-2007, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemperFideles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivan

I don't know how it is now in our Southern Baptist seminaries, but when I started at SWBTS in '78 a student that was a Southern Baptist had a number of benefits. One, the Cooperative Program picked up the majority of the tab (I think I paid under $200 a semester). Along with that the seminary gave many students on-campus jobs (along with their spouses). Finally, the modest but adequate housing was very inexpensive.

My wife and I were not parents during most of time we were in seminary. Also, my wife got a nice paying job at Texas Christian University. I worked many hours (as many as I was alllowed) at seminary. I worked in the AV Library. A good deal of the time the activity was so light at work that I was allowed to study while working.

God was very good to us.

Talking to a recent grad, this is still very much the case with Southern Baptist Seminaries. I really have to hand it to the SBC, they really do support folks seeking the pastorate. Of course, millions of members helps but I believe the ideal would be that a man would not have to worry about how he's going to support his family or go into massive debt in order to prepare for ministry.

Thse of us in Presbyterian/Reformed denominations should be shamed by that example.

mr_burns · #20 (**permalink**) 11-29-2007, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

Those of us in Presbyterian/Reformed denominations should be shamed by that example.

... or at least challenged.

I think the thing I find most annoying is for people, like myself, who are from a non-denominational background. We get no love from the seminaries. I've been a campus minister for 7 years and have a strong desire to get a solid, reformed, seminary education. All the schools I looked at had financial aid for campus ministers... oh, wait... only for the ones in "our" denomination. That's kind of lame if you ask me. To some degree I understand the "take care of our own" mentality... but it leaves a lot of people in the cold and feeling like the 3rd cousin twice removed at thanksgiving that no one can remember his (or her) name.

R. Scott Clark · #21 (**permalink**) 11-29-2007, 12:42 AM

Any student who comes to seminary should come from a congregation. Even if a congregation is not in a denomination/federation it should be able to help a student attend seminary. Have you told your congregation that you want to go to seminary?

Have you called Mark MacVey at WSC (760) 480 8474 to ask about financial aid? We have aid that is not connected to denominations.

rsc

mr_burns · #22 (**permalink**) 11-29-2007, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R. Scott Clark

Any student who comes to seminary should come from a congregation. Even if a congregation is not in a denomination/federation it should be able to help a student attend seminary. Have you told your congregation that you want to go to seminary?

Have you called Mark MacVey at WSC (760) 480 8474 to ask about financial aid? We have aid that is not connected to denominations.

rsc

Right, there are other options out there... but there seems to be a propensity to "reward" those of the same denomination affiliation.

As for me, I am actually attending RTS Orlando in January. I got in on the Church Partnership Plan and my wife is attending free via a spouse scholarship. So, my complaint was not necessarily a personal one. God has graciously provided for us. It was rather an observation of my research into the subject of financial aid and seminary. Having an affiliation opens a lot of doors... it seems...

Oh, and thanks for trying to hook me up. Your bro's in philly were on my list, but Orlando won the day.