I have already commented on the organizational dynamics which seem to be operative here (i.e., mainly the death of a strong leader/founder and the uncertainty it injects into all relationships of authority and power in the organization).

Additional to that, and in partial answer to Scott, trustees are the custodians of the mission, vision, and values of an organization. If the trustees, in conformity to their fiduciary and spiritual oversight responsibilities, made a determination regarding a professor, only to be overturned by the church, it must have left them feeling impotent. At that point, it becomes an integrity issue. How can you remain on a board when you feel that you are prevented from exercising your responsibilities?

Now, my comments do NOT take into account whether the board should have acted so quickly or if their jdugment was just. I merely think that if they believed their action to be correct, the church's action left them with little choice.

As a non-presbyterian, this seems like a VERY strange arrangement. Do you all have other institutions that have this kind of dual authority (local church and independent board)???

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Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

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I think Knox is unique being a ministry of a local Presbyterian church rather than an independent organization or under the oversight of a Presbytery or General Assembly.

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Chris Coldwell
Lakewood Presbyterian Church (PCA), Member
• Naphtali Press: Presbyterian & Reformed Books
• The Confessional Presbyterian, A Journal for Discussion of Presbyterian Doctrine & Practice
• The Blue Banner Archive

When heresy rises in an evangelical body, it is never frank and open. It always begins by skulking, and assuming a disguise. Its advocates, when together, boast of great improvements, and congratulate one another on having gone greatly beyond the ‘old dead orthodoxy,’ and on having left behind many of its antiquated errors: but when taxed with deviations from the received faith, they complain of the unreasonableness of their accusers, as they ‘differ from it only in words.’ This has been the standing course of errorists ever since the apostolic age. Samuel Miller, Introductory essay, The Articles of the Synod of Dort (1841).

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Scott, you have made a brilliant observation. Let us put aside the issue of Warren Gage's typology (which has never been questioned in Reformed Circles until now) and look at how the matter was handled. Board members do not simply resign in the manner that the individuals on the Knox board did. In a normal process of accusing someone of guilt it takes time to decide and look into the matter. If you look at the resignation letters of some of the board member, one in particular, the attitude and language is infamitory and accusatory. That alone, should cause one to question the manner in which it was handled. I will not state who I think is right or wrong, but how some of the board members responded to the session overturning their ruling, raises red flags. Many have felt that this entire matter was poorly handled, and this really is the issue.

Tumeric, you raise a legimate question. I think the present issue with Knox Seminary centers around the process of how the board should have handled the overturning of their decision. The problem is not an easy one to solve. The board of Knox Seminary and the board of Westminster Accademy, two ministries of Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church, have always been regarded (unless it has changed) as a commission of the session. Knox has never been confronted with a situation like this, so it is not that easy to know how to proceed. Knox is not like most seminaries that are independent of a session or congregation, so technically Warren Gage as an assistant minister of CRPC is under the session. I am not sure how it will be settled, but we must remember that Christ is king over His church.

As was raised here or somewhere, I cannot see how the Knox board could be a commission of the session if it had a woman (non session member I'm sure; this isn't the PCUSA) on the board. Maybe Fred can elaborate on this point again?

So let me get this straight: CRPC has its own seminary? Where in the BCO do provisions for such an action exist?

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Naphtali, I have raised the same question about having a woman on a commission. Having been at Coral Ridge I know first hand that the Knox board is a commission, but I do agree with Fred that a commission should be made up of ruling or teaching elders from the session. This perhpaps is where this situation gets really messy, because of how the seminary is organized.

In response to calgal, yes Knox Seminary is a ministry of Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church and was established by Dr. Kennedy in 1989. It has a board but is under the authority of the session. There is no provision in the BCO for establishishing an independent seminary like Knox any more than there is for establishing a national seminary, such as Covenant Theological Seminary in St. Louis (the only PCA seminary). The BCO does not legislate everything we do, but is simply a guide to maintain order and harmony in the church. Having graduated from Knox I appreciate the seminary and the vision the Lord gave Dr. Kennedy. There is no ruling against establishing a seminary like Knox. There are a number of seminaries that are similar to Knox. Dr. Kennedy certainly did not forsee this problem coming, but this is an issue that is particulary related to Coral Ridge church itself that most people do not know about. I personally think that the way Knox is set up has its strengths but also it weaknessess. But when you look at issues in national semiaries like what occured at Westminster East with Norman Sheperd, they have their problems as well. Remember no system is infallible. Depraved creatures are certainly prone to error.

They should settle it with a "Steel Cage Match"...that would solve everything.

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~etexas~

Upon further review, I thought I should amend the previous post shown above. I think it was an inadvertent misinterpretation of Donne's sonnet. As a correction, I need merely to point to the second line, where God's method is "knocke, breathe, shine, and seeke to mend." The speaker's desire for ravishment is contrary to fact.

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Paul Weinhold, Colleyville Presbyterian Church

Currently Reading: Critical Theory Since Plato, Poetry by John Donne, Solon of Athens, and Wallace Stevens

1 Corinthians 8:2-3 "If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know. But if anyone loves God, he is known by God."

It is important to remember that we are talking about typology. We are not talking about something addressed in the apostle's creed, sola fide, or something similarly core. Reformed seminaries accept numerous exceptions to the Westminster Confession by students and professors. At Westminster Seminary, one of the most common exceptions is to the nature of God Himself (many object to the statement that he has "no passions"). There are numerous exceptions to infant baptism (many baptists attend reformed seminaries), the Fourth Commandment (typically regarding recreation on the Sabbath), and other things.

It is very hard to imagine typology being a big deal at all, especially since it does not define doctrine so much as use the Old Testament to reinforce the clear doctrines revealed in the New Testament. I have read a fair amount from Gage and he is very good and orthodox. If someone gives him a text from the OT, he is far better able to describe how it illustrates gospel truths that most anyone I have seen.

In terms of the broader question about what to do when problems arise, I think just leaving is typically a terrible idea. It is the same impulse that spurs people to divorce when things go badly. It is the same thing that gives people such a lack of commitment to churches and other organizations. Endure the bad and work for the good.

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Scott Roberts
Ruling Elder, Lakeside Presbyterian Church (PCA)
Southlake, Texas

Scott,

Typology not a big deal? Ask Origin.

This issue of the "sense" of Scripture was at the heart of the Reformation. It was this issue that brought about change on the solas. Calvin's Institutes are replete with this.

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Fredrick T. Greco
Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA (Katy, TX)
Christ Church Blog

"The heart is the main thing in true religion...It is the hinge and turning-point in the condition of man's soul. If the heart is alive to God and quickened by the Spirit, the man is a living Christian. If the heart is dead and has not the Spirit, the man is dead before God." (J.C. Ryle)

Scott in response to your last entry, yes men can take exceptions to the WCOF and I agree Dr. Gage's typology is not contrary to the confession, but Gage was not holding an exception to the confession. The original problem that led to the board's decision was not his typology but some statements he made in class, some taken out of context. You would have to fire every seminary professor for mistating a point. Gage did apologize in the beginning for some things that he stated incorrectly, but it was not something contrary to Christian faith or doctrine.

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Stephen Welch
PCA Teaching Elder
Nova Scotia

Unfortunately, churches over the past 20 years have been getting into the education business and setting up separate school boards is par for the course. Most Sessions are not called to be school administrators but the spiritual leaders of the church. Therefore, they set up a separate board to handle all the day to day issues, any fund raising and hiring and firing teachers. The idea of a church having a separate school board is a recipe for disaster (I speak from experience!). If a Session does not want to get into running a church sponsored school, then they should reconsider starting a school to begin with.

One thing to remember about CRPC and Knox, Dr. Kennedy was not only the Sr Pastor and Session Member but was also the Chancellor of Knox. When he died that left a big hole not only at CRPC but at Knox.

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~Wayne Wylie~
Member, Mid Cities Presbyterian Church (OPC)
Ruling Elder - Inactive
http://www.mcopc.org
Bedford, TX

Job 28:28 - And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

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Fredrick, I agree that Origen had very serious theological problems and held to an allogorical interpretation of Scripture, but read Gage's material, especially his John/Revelation project, which is still on the Knox website and was also taught by the Dean of Students, who initially brought charges to the board. There is nothing in his material contrary to the confession and if you read some of the Scottish Puritans of the 1800's, especially Robert Murray McCheyne, you will find them using much typology. The issue in much of this fiasco is that noone teaches typology in Reformed circles today and Gage has tried to bring this back into Reformed circles. I still do not understand how Warren Gage could have been suspended when he has taught his typology from the first day he arrived at Knox.

So Stephen, are you saying that R.C. Sproul, Rick Phillips, Greg Miseyko, Rick Penney & Cortez Cooper misinterpreted or didn't get what they were examining correct? They didn't understand that the student's reports were taken out of context? Are you saying these men acted rashly and irresponsible in their decisions as Elders and board members? Is this what you are saying about these Elders? I just want to make sure you know that that is what I hear you saying. And that seems to be very serious. You are making some serious accuastions against these men of God. And I want you to realize this. Are you willing to stand up under the scrutiny of this?

(1Ti 5:19) Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.


I know you are an Elder and close to the situation but it seems you are levelling some charges here.

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R. Martin Snyder

1689erPuritanCovenanter MSN Blog
Harmony Baptist Church (Member)PuritanCovenanter's MySpace Page
"Our object should not be to have scripture on our side but to be on the side of scripture; and however dear any sentiment may have become by being long entertained, so soon as it is seen to be contrary to the Bible, we must be prepared to abandon it without hesitation."William Symington

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It is not reasonable to compare Gage to Origen. Origen's emphasis was allegory, not typology, and allegory is what he is mostly criticized for. Gage's writings are allegory and the doctrines he teaches are consistent with the WCF. Also, it is not a substantial issue of the reformation. It was a minor issue in terms of the relative volume of material written on it, the list of grievances against the Roman Church, the prominence in confessional documents and the like. Of course the reformers had a way of saying every issue was monumental (perhaps one reason that one of their legacies is unprecedented division), so you can find inflamatory language on many issues that most of us would consider not central or core, including the issues I mentioned earlier (Sabbath recreation, infant baptism, and the like).

This is so true. So many people like to say that the entire Bible talks about Jesus, but are completely unable to actually draw Jesus from most of the Old Testament. Typology should be that bridge in many cases. It is not accidental that so many stories, ceremonies, and the like follow the pattern of the gospel story and the life of Christ. Most people just miss it (sadly).

I think we should be open to the possibility that that is exactly the case.

As much as we all owe these men, we should not close our eyes to the possibility that even they may have been influenced/distracted by something other than the issue here.

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Kevin Rogers
Sovereign Community Church, PCA
Moncton NB

Brother what you have said is the best description of the problem I have herd. It is truly a shame how often it is that when a good leader steps down that sooo many problems seem to ensue.

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Joe K.
Providence Reformed Baptist (member), Toledo Ohio
2nd London Baptist Confession of Faith 1689

And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live. Ezk 16:6

In terms of the number of meanings of a text, isn't the only part of the Confession that explicitly addresses the issue one parenthetical in par 1(IX)?
Is there anything else in the shorter or longer catechisms that even mention the issue? And the above parenthetical does not eliminate typology, as many reformers agreed with typology.