While it was looking like everyone was going to patch things up in a commendable way, sadly, the Knox Seminary Fiasco continues. I'm speechless. The word shameful comes to mind though.

Stuff That Matters - Faith & Politics: Resigned Knox Board Told Don’t Bother

__________________
Chris Coldwell, Lakewood Presbyterian Church (PCA), Dallas, Texas.
• Naphtali Press: Presbyterian & Reformed Books
• Westminster Letter Press
• The Confessional Presbyterian Journal
• The Blue Banner Archive

The Regulative Principle: The Scriptures are the “only infallible rule of faith and practice, no rite or ceremony ought to have a place in the public worship of God, which is not warranted in Scripture, either by direct precept or example, or by good and sufficient inference” (Samuel Miller).

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions? Joining PB's Politics & Government Forum

I should have added that Reformed Musings blogs goes over what is contrary to the PCA Book of Church order regarding aspects of this.
A Sad Session Overreach « Reformed Musings

{shakes head in disbelief}

__________________
Rich
PCA, Northern VA
Student, New Geneva Theological Seminary

WebsiteMaven - Web Hosting Reviews, Guides, and Advice to build and promote your web site.
SoliDeoGloria.com - A Community for Reformed Thought and Discussion

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

What exactly was this man teaching that upset them so?

__________________
Psa 55:16 As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me.
Psa 55:17 Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice.
James Farley
Husband of Melissa and father of Ann.
Members of Redeemer Church ARP, Blacksburg Va.
http://www.redeemerblacksburg.org/

What's happening...in a nutshell?

__________________
Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

The majority of the Knox board members, suspended or fired a professor for what they thought was an extreme view of typology; I don't know if that was the only reason, and this may be an over simplification. The session reversed that decision, and six board members resigned, including R. C. Sproul Sr. Eventually the Stated Clerk ruled that the Book of Church order governed the matter and that the session didn't have the right to overturn the decision (again, this is over simplifying; read the links). The session invited the board members who resigned to unresign, without any stipulations or qualifications. Two weeks later, evidently because the board members who did not resign were suspicions of the motives of the returning members, required a letter to be signed stating the returned members repented and other binding stipulations. Whatever one may think of the issue at root of the suspension/firing; this is just shameful to ask them to come back without stipulations and then, oops, when they took the offer, decide to impose conditions. Again, this is condensed and you should read the two links for the full story and the first link for the documentation from each side.

I see that one of the requirements was to recant their charge that this fellow's teaching was unconfessional. That's asking too much, in my opinion.

__________________
The man who is disposed to think of his sin as a great calamity, rather than as a heinous crime, is not likely either to reverence God or to respect His law. - John Kennedy, 1873
Meg
Blog
Member, Intown Presbyterian Church,PCA, Portland, OR

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Another important issue in the charge against Gage (and I am making NO judgment on whether the charge was accurate or not: I'm still undecided as to which side is correct. Men I deeply respect are on both sides) was whether or not he taught something equivalent to the fourfold interpretation of the Medieval period, which would be contrary to WCF 1.9.

__________________
Rev. Lane Keister
Teaching Elder, PCA, North Dakota (working out of bounds in a CRC and an RCA church)
http://greenbaggins.wordpress.com
http://brahmsgreenglove.blogspot.com
http://accenttranslation.blogspot.com
Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Ok, I agree that it is wrong to allow the board members back, only to add further stipulations afterwards and I would also like to state that church politics are always shameful and this incident reeks of church politics.

Having said that, I'm curious: Was Knox Seminary originally set up as a "ministry" (for lack of a better word) of Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church? Was the Session of CRPC accurate in saying that the Board of Knox Seminary is a Standing Commission of CRPC? If so, how could the stated clerk of the PCA offer an assessment in favor of the board of Knox Seminary? It seems to me that this is a local church issue.

Another question I would want answered before making up my mind on this topic is: Who has the right to discipline professors at KTS? Does that responsibility fall to the board of directors or does the Session of CRPC alone have that authority?

Also, I would encourage everyone to withhold judgment until we hear both sides of the issue.

__________________
Seth Stark
Member, Communion Presbyterian Church (ARP), Irvine, CA
Biola University, Graduate Student, M.A. - Science and Religion
Seth's Blog

If the resignations were not accepted, then they never officially left the board. They are still on the board.

__________________
David Cronkhite, Elder
Pasadena United Reformed Church

"I count myself one of the number of those
who write as they learn, and learn as they write."

As a Californian, I have NO clue as to the corporate culture of Coral Ridge or Knox. However, my guess is that whenever a larger-than-life leader of the stature of Kennedy disappears from the scene, you should expect some pretty significant missteps by people trying to adjust to the political environment absent the founder. Look at any large church of whatever polity deal with the death or retirement of a founder or long-term pastor. These kinds of foolish actions are sadly all too common. I pray that they don't do anything to besmirch the reputation of a fine school or some very good people. Sheesh!

__________________
Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

The board cannot be a commission (standing or otherwise) of the Session. In order to be on a commission (except as an invited ex officio guest, like the preacher at an ordination), you must be a member of the court. In order to be a member of the Session of CRPC, a man must have been a member of CRPC and have been elected an elder from that congregation. It is manifestly not the case with the Teaching Elders (who are members of their respective Presbyteries), and don't think it is the case with the non-TEs either. Furthermore, as Dr. Taylor states, the Session has no authority over Dr. Gage (himself a member of a Presbytery) either to condemn or exonerate. All of this is standard polity - and does not touch on the substantive issue of Dr. Gage's teaching.

__________________
Fred Greco
Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA (Katy, TX)
Christ Church Blog

"The heart is the main thing in true religion...It is the hinge and turning-point in the condition of man's soul. If the heart is alive to God and quickened by the Spirit, the man is a living Christian. If the heart is dead and has not the Spirit, the man is dead before God." (J.C. Ryle)

How could anyone claim this when a woman was on the board of directors?

Can someone write a brief pargraph of all this in terms where someone who is still a novice to Presbyterian polity can understand it? Who did what and what was wrong and...?

__________________
Josh Hicks, Chloë's Dad
Christ Covenant Reformed Presbyterian Church, RPCGA
Facebook - The Calvinist Vent
Board Rules - Signature Rules - Suggestion Box

It is God that multiplies our sorrows.... God, as a righteous Judge, does it, which ought to silence us under all our sorrows; as many as they are, we have deserved them all, and more: nay, God, as a tender Father, does it for our necessary correction, that we may be humbled for sin, and weaned from the world by all our sorrows; and the good we get by them, with the comfort we have under them, will abundantly balance our sorrows, how greatly soever they are multiplied. - Matthew Henry

I have no idea, Chris.

Q: Why is/was there a female on the board of directors at Knox?

A: Accreditation. The Association of Theological Schools (ATS), the accrediting authority/body for many seminaries and theological schools, to include Knox, mandates the following in its Standards, paragraph 8.3.1.3:

“Members of the governing board shall possess the qualifications appropriate to the task they will undertake. In accordance with the school’s purpose and constituencies, the governing board’s membership should reflect diversity of race, ethnicity, and gender.”

You can refer to the actual ATS Standards via this link:
Standards

__________________
Jason G.
FPC Margate, PCA (Margate, FL)
Knox Theological Seminary, student, FL
[URL="http://turretin.blogspot.com"]Turretin Blog Author[/URL]

Essentially, the ATS mandates that the governing board of a theological school must reflect the diversity of the student body. Knox has both male and female and numerous ethnicities comprising the student body. Therefore, the board of Knox must reflect this reality.

Why worry about it, Josh? Really, this whole matter should be kept within PCA circles. I don't see that it is my business to know about it or make judgements. I am sure that within the PCA the mechanisms exist to sort this matter out properly.

__________________
Jonathan Hunt

Elder holding forth the word of life at:
Cheltenham Evangelical Free Church (Confessionally Based)
Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, United Kingdom

Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence.
-- Thomas Elsworth

I wonder if I'm committing the lust of the eyes in even caring. The desire I have to hear scandals in the church is probably a vain curiosity. Some knowledge may be useful for prayer but how much do I need to know?

__________________
*Peter Gray* Elkins Park RPCNA

"Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief. " Mk 9:24
"The greatest thing we can desire, next to the glory of God, is our own salvation; and the sweetest thing we can desire is the assurance of our salvation. In this life we cannot get higher than to be assured of that which in the next life is to be enjoyed. All saints shall enjoy a heaven when they leave this earth; some saints enjoy a heaven while they are here on earth." Joseph Caryl

These cautions are certainly generally appropriate; however, let's do Josh the favor of letting him judge his own conscience in asking for a summary of what exactly has transpired.

A significant recension at Reformedmusings is posted.
An Error and Repentence « Reformed Musings

Thanks.

Jonathan, I appreciate the cautionary note. I just read through the post and am not really comprehending. I just wanted to understand the issue. That's all.

Now THAT is an excellent example of repentance - if we get nothing else out of all this.

Jonathan, et al:

I really think when there are people out there blogging about R.C.Sproul and Rick Phillips and Coral Ridge - it's going to raise questions. I think Josh and the others just want whatever facts are out there. There don't appear to be too many facts actually. Poor R.C. Sproul - I wish he could have a peaceful old age, but it doesn't seem meant to be.

It also might have had something to do with this:

How disgusting to make such a statement. That sounds like something one would hear from the Caners or some Arminian prof. Isn't this a reformed institution?

__________________
Joseph Botwinick, Band Director
Second Baptist Church, Jacksonville, Arkansas, Southern Baptist Convention
Sherwood, Arkansas
Romans 7:14-25
http://botwinick.wordpress.com/

I think John Donne said it best:

__________________
Paul Weinhold, Colleyville Presbyterian Church

Currently Reading: Critical Theory Since Plato, Poetry by John Donne, Solon of Athens, and Wallace Stevens

1 Corinthians 8:2-3 "If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know. But if anyone loves God, he is known by God."

Jonathan, it appears nobody's gonna break it down for me anyway, so no worries!

Joshua,

I just Googled "Knox Seminary" AND Gage AND controversy and came up with plenty of sites to fill in the details. I am NOT a presbyterian so my grasp of the polity is a bit fuzzy. As I understand the issues . . .

* A former student filed a complaint against Dr. Gage for some of his ill-chosen framings and particularly for his anti-rationalistic emphasis upon reading the Bible in a more "typological" manner (i.e., implying that meaning was multiple, not singular).
* Someone(s) in the faculty investigated and turned the matter over to the board.
* The board found him outside the confessional boundaries of the WCF; suspended him WITH pay until the end of the semester; and encouraged him to reconsider his positions so as to bring them into compliance with the confessional standards.
* Since the prof was also on the pastoral staff of the church AND since Knox was established as a ministry of the church, the session investigated the matter and overturned the board. They ordered the immediate reinstatment of the prof.
* Having already written a letter imploring the church to respect the judgment of the board, Dr. R.C. Sproul (and five other board members) resigned their positions on the board.
* An offer was made to reinstate the board members, they all accepted.
* After they accepted the offer, they were informed that in order to return to the board, they would need to agree to some conditions. These included admitting that they were wrong and promising not to take action against the prof in the future.
* Those who love the staff pastor/seminary prof have gone out of their way to blame R.C. Sproul in most uncharitable ways, seeing the matter as one of a rush to judgment and a failure of due process; those who side with the board see this as the beginning of the end for the school. They argue that the board was merely attempting to maintain theological purity with integrity.

I agree with Turmeric. Poor R.C.! He has had a powerful impact upon my life and ministry. After a lifetime of faithful service, he certainly does not deserve this kind of trouble. Frankly, it is difficult to believe that this would have gone down this way if Dr. Kennedy were still alive.

Hey, I wasn't getting at you, I said I didn't think it was MY business especially. It certainly interests me, but I wonder, as Peter said, if that interest is wrong. I think you have a breakdown now anyways!

It seems to me the CRPC Session rushed to judgment. It seemed that the idea of the Board was that the Board would suspend Gage, then the Session was also expected to suspend Gage (on the advice of the Board) from preaching/teaching at CRPC pending an investigation and hearing by the Presbytery!

Had the CRPC Session not rushed to intervene, and had they followed the Board's suggestions, then the next step would have been and investigation and hearing by the Presbytery.

At that point, the Presbytery could rightly rule if Gage was within the bounds of orthodoxy. And if they ruled in Gage's favor, then Board could reconsider their actions.

But that didn't happen and it's a mess. I hope they can straighten out the procedural issues first, so they can then properly consider the more important issues of Gage's orthodoxy at the Presbytery level.

__________________
R. Anthony Coletti
Midway Presbyterian Church (PCA)
Jonesborough, TN
[i]et venite et arguite me dicit Dominus[/i]

Wonder if this'll make the GA dockett this summer. Anyway, I should pray about it and talk less.

This accusation that Warren Gage regards redemption as a form of divine rape is unfounded. Brothers, we must be careful in accussing a man of saying something that he may not have said. This was a quote taken out of context in a class lecture. The Scriptures remind us that we should not bear false witness against our neighbor. This was something that was found on the internet and perhaps taken out of context by those who thought it was their "calling" to let everyone know the juicy gosip of Knox Seminary. Warren Gage was accused of teaching a typology that some think is beyond the WCOF. There are several issues at stake in this matter and too many are confusing the issues.

John Doane in his Holy Sonnet XIV refers to being ravished by God. Perhaps this was the context of the discussion in which this accusation against Gage was raised. Remember that we are outsiders and there is always more behind an issue then what appears on the surface.

This is EXACTLY what is going on, and its EXTREMELY disturbing to see men who were once respected, fall into some shady moves.

If Dr. Kennedy was still alive....

When the cat is away the mice play.

Exodus 32:17-18 17 And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said to Moses, "There is a noise of war in the camp." 18 But he said: "It is not the noise of the shout of victory, Nor the noise of the cry of defeat, But the sound of singing I hear."

I know when you hear "exactly" that I might be oversimplifying it. I am. There are quite a few other things that would make you shake your head that are actually happening in the school and in the church as a result of Kennedy's death. People jockying for control, etc.

__________________
C. Matthew McMahon, Ph.D. (Pot hole Digger)
John 5:39, "...search the Scriptures..."

Dr. C. Matthew McMahon.com, www.apuritansmind.com and www.puritanpublications.com
Member - Christ Presbyterian Church

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Brother, McMahon I think you hit the nail on the head. The entire situation at Knox & Coral Ridge is quite disturbing. I personally know that Dr. Kennedy would have handled things differently. Does it not seem odd that only a few days after the beloved pastor is buried that Dr. Gage is put on suspension by the board?

The ex, not ex, then ex again board members are not returning, correct? No charges have been filed against Gage, have they? What now? Is it over?

No the board members that resigned are not returning. They were allowed to return under certain stipulations but they would not agree to those conditions. I understand the board members who resigned are appealing to the the Presbytery of Southern Florida. Those board members were replaced by some ruling and teaching elders and one man who is a licentate and student at Knox. Gage has been cleared of charges, but I do not know what will happen from here. This could have been a simple thing but it has become so magnified that I am not sure how the seminary will recover.

It may not recover. If not, I"m sure there is plenty of blame to spread around. However, if a case has been filed, that may clarify some things.

By recover do you mean that it will suffer doctrinal problems in the future, or ecclesiastical problems, or both?

__________________

Norseman Moderator

R. Martin Snyder
1689er
http://www.puritanboard.com/blogs/puritancovenanter/

"Our object should not be to have scripture on our side but to be on the side of scripture; and however dear any sentiment may have become by being long entertained, so soon as it is seen to be contrary to the Bible, we must be prepared to abandon it without hesitation."
William Symington

Click to get:Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

This is the first I have heard of these events. It is very sad. I know that part of an ordinary member's church covenant in joining a PCA church, he is obligated to study the peace of the church. It sounds to me like the board does not take that approach. It is sorrowful that organizational divorce is such a ready option for so many people today, including leaders. All churches and organizations have problems, including sinful problems. It is ordinarily better to just stay there instead of abandoning the organization. That is part of what it means to study the peace the church, or to have a similar attitude toward an organization. To leave board positions over typology is absurd.

__________________
Scott Roberts
Ruling Elder, Lakeside Presbyterian Church (PCA)
Southlake, Texas

What is a theologian to do when he is responsible for the wellbeing of students' souls and he really feels that something heretical is being taught? I'm not opining about whether it actually was heretical, I would actually like to know that at some point. What I'm asking is; what someone like Sproul or Phillips is supposed to do if he finds that something he is sure is heresy is being taught-and then when he deals with it, what he's done is overturned?