Computers in Class: Help or Harm?

R. Scott Clark · #1 (**permalink**) 12-11-2007, 11:30 PM

Attention students:

I could use your feedback regarding the use of computers in classroom on the HB

rsc

Semper Fidelis · #2 (**permalink**) 12-12-2007, 01:07 AM

I'm going to provide my feedback here so I can bump this thread and more can interact on the HB.

I think there are a number of things about computers that have made the learning environment easier and, for that reason, it deprecates the learning experience. As much as I love computers, I'm glad to have been forced to use a regular typewriter and real books to do research papers in high school and college. Copying and pasting a huge chunk of text doesn't force me to have to choose words as carefully.

With specific reference to notes, I've never liked computers. I cannot annotate important points as well. I want to be able to mark things and even diagram things to make points clearer. Every time I've tried to go to a computer to replace normal note taking it has never worked for me.

No Longer A Libertine · #3 (**permalink**) 12-12-2007, 01:22 AM

As a research tool they are a life saver but they KILL social skills and interaction in this hyper digital age, people forget how to collaborate in the flesh and converse beyond AIM dialogue, to debate and prod beyond face value, computers have helped the flesh be slothful in many ways as they've alleviated social insecurities by masking them for many.

Semper Fidelis · #4 (**permalink**) 12-12-2007, 01:30 AM

On a side note, I asked a room full of junior Officers the other day if they knew what a Frost Call was. Only one in the room knew and that's only because her boss had forced one recently.

Whenever something important was happening in a military unit, there was a standard procedure set up that many of you probably know as a "phone tree". Everyone knew who to call so the entire unit could be contacted and, in some cases, recalled. Now, nobody practices it any more and when e-mail goes down a command is paralyzed.

No Longer A Libertine · #5 (**permalink**) 12-12-2007, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemperFideles

On a side note, I asked a room full of junior Officers the other day if they knew what a Frost Call was. Only one in the room knew and that's only because her boss had forced one recently.

Whenever something important was happening in a military unit, there was a standard procedure set up that many of you probably know as a "phone tree". Everyone knew who to call so the entire unit could be contacted and, in some cases, recalled. Now, nobody practices it any more and when e-mail goes down a command is paralyzed.

The United States military is at the mercy of e-mail? Yikes.

Semper Fidelis · #6 (**permalink**) 12-12-2007, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Longer A Libertine

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemperFideles

On a side note, I asked a room full of junior Officers the other day if they knew what a Frost Call was. Only one in the room knew and that's only because her boss had forced one recently.

Whenever something important was happening in a military unit, there was a standard procedure set up that many of you probably know as a "phone tree". Everyone knew who to call so the entire unit could be contacted and, in some cases, recalled. Now, nobody practices it any more and when e-mail goes down a command is paralyzed.

The United States military is at the mercy of e-mail? Yikes.

Shhhhh....the Chinese might read this.

Seriously, don't bet your life on it. My point was pedagogical to the students I was teaching. We adjust but it's painful. As a Communications Officer I *always* provide alternate comm means but people don't know how to use them. We still use radio by and large for Ground Combat and Air Support.

No Longer A Libertine · #7 (**permalink**) 12-12-2007, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemperFideles

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Longer A Libertine

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemperFideles

On a side note, I asked a room full of junior Officers the other day if they knew what a Frost Call was. Only one in the room knew and that's only because her boss had forced one recently.

Whenever something important was happening in a military unit, there was a standard procedure set up that many of you probably know as a "phone tree". Everyone knew who to call so the entire unit could be contacted and, in some cases, recalled. Now, nobody practices it any more and when e-mail goes down a command is paralyzed.

The United States military is at the mercy of e-mail? Yikes.

Shhhhh....the Chinese might read this.

Seriously, don't bet your life on it. My point was pedagogical to the students I was teaching. We adjust but it's painful. As a Communications Officer I *always* provide alternate comm means but people don't know how to use them. We still use radio by and large for Ground Combat and Air Support.

Ha! If intelligence was smart they'd communicate through Christian literature, one thing they know the Chinese are trying to keep their masses clear from, wouldn't want any Red Army soldiers falling under the study of the Christian doctrine.

Puritan Sailor · #8 (**permalink**) 12-12-2007, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R. Scott Clark

Attention students:

I could use your feedback regarding the use of computers in classroom on the HB

rsc

Dr. Van Pelt here at RTS has argued from some research he read that computers hinder the learning process and that the old hand written notes are more conducive to learning. You may want to contact him about what research he has in mind.

Semper Fidelis · #9 (**permalink**) 12-12-2007, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritan Sailor

Quote:

Originally Posted by R. Scott Clark

Attention students:

I could use your feedback regarding the use of computers in classroom on the HB

rsc

Dr. Van Pelt here at RTS has argued from some research he read that computers hinder the learning process and that the old hand written notes are more conducive to learning. You may want to contact him about what research he has in mind.

Research?! What about my anecdotes.

Here's another one for people like David.

I still have a distinct memory of a paper I had to write in 1983. I think it was a 10 page paper but it had to be typed. Back in those days, the only way you learned how to type was on a real life typewriter. I'm thankful I actually took a typing class in high school but this paper preceded that effort. I had to type that paper using two fingers and searching for every letter.

It took me about two days of working practically non-stop just to type that thing. I would mess up some detail and I would have to sometimes re-type an entire page that was messed up. You really had to draft everything out and think about what you were going to write ahead of time. I had learned a trick from my teacher to do research by using index cards with a sentence of facts on each index card with the reference of where you got it on the back. You could then shuffle the cards in the order you needed for research.

I have to say that I don't miss typewriters at all but, even as a freshman in college, I still remember using some typewriters that you could type a whole line of text in a little display and then choose print and the typewriter would type the whole line and then you'd go to the next one. That was pretty cool for back then.

When you think about how prolific Origen or Augustine or Calvin or Owen was given only parchment and a quill it simply boggles the mind. I was even thinking about that the other day how hard these guys must have had to study to keep track of where certain Scriptures were of referencing where certain words appear. There was certainly no search feature they could rely upon.

Ivanhoe · #10 (**permalink**) 12-12-2007, 09:53 AM

i type 3 or 4 times faster than I write. So I can get more factoids down. But on the downside it might be 3 or 4 days when I get these notes printed, so that's several days without studying. Also, can't really diagram on a computer. Other than that, I like computers.

Joshua · #11 (**permalink**) 12-12-2007, 11:26 AM

Typing? What is that, anyway?

jaybird0827 · #12 (**permalink**) 12-12-2007, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshua

Typing? What is that, anyway?

Does your computer not have a QWERTY keyboard??? There's a lot you can do with a mouse but, I mean ...

Joshua · #13 (**permalink**) 12-12-2007, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaybird0827

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshua

Typing? What is that, anyway?

Does your computer not have a QWERTY keyboard??? There's a lot you can do with a mouse but, I mean ...

I have voice recognition software that types everything out for me. It's my only hope for catching up with Andrew in postings....cuz I talk faster than I type.

victorbravo · #14 (**permalink**) 12-12-2007, 11:38 AM

My set of anecdotes too. I'm from the dark ages when notes were by hand and computers used punch cards (of course, there were magnetic tapes too!). So when I was in college it was all handwriting and typewriters. I still have and use my portable mechanical Olympia.

After graduating with a BS and doing some Masters Degree work, I stayed out of school for about 9 years and then went back to law school in the late 80s. I had a dual floppy laptop which I loved, but I never used it in class because the key clacking was too distracting. One other guy brought his to class, but after a few days, the professor banned it because of the noise. BTW, this was before wireless internet so you couldn't be distracted by the web.

So another 15 years went by and I'm back in law school for an advanced degree. Everyone has computers, half the students are surfing the web during class, and the class discussion is noticably less deep. I'm convinced that it is because people are spending their time trying to get things down into their notes that they are listening as stenographers rather than participants. The difference is striking.

On the plus side, your computerized notes are searchable and easy to index. On the minus side, taking those notes involves more of your resources than the habit of jotting down important points during the class. It is hard to both be a stenographer and a participant.

The old manual note taking took more time because for them to be meaningful you had to go back and edit/synthesize them. But that helped learning.

On balance, I'd be in favor of no computers, but I fear that students these days would feel naked and anxious without them.

wsw201 · #15 (**permalink**) 12-12-2007, 12:31 PM

Using computers?? When I was in college I was not allowed to use a calculator!

victorbravo · #16 (**permalink**) 12-12-2007, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsw201

Using computers?? When I was in college I was not allowed to use a calculator!

Calculators? Only the rich kids had 'em. All of us were required to be proficient on slide rules!

wsw201 · #17 (**permalink**) 12-12-2007, 01:25 PM

Slide rules!!! that takes me back. My dad had two of them. A standard 12 in. and a small pocket slide rule. The only reason I had a calculator (an HP 21) was that my uncle bought it for me when I graduated high school (he was my rich uncle!). When I first got it I felt like those monkeys in 2001: A Space Odessey looking at that big black thing.

victorbravo · #18 (**permalink**) 12-12-2007, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsw201

Slide rules!!! that takes me back. My dad had two of them. A standard 12 in. and a small pocket slide rule. The only reason I had a calculator (an HP 21) was that my uncle bought it for me when I graduated high school (he was my rich uncle!). When I first got it I felt like those monkeys in 2001: A Space Odessey looking at that big black thing.

Those were cool and the envy of my engineering classmates. BTW, I still have my 1975 CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics with its finger-stained log tables. Those were the days.

No Longer A Libertine · #19 (**permalink**) 12-12-2007, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsw201

Slide rules!!! that takes me back. My dad had two of them. A standard 12 in. and a small pocket slide rule. The only reason I had a calculator (an HP 21) was that my uncle bought it for me when I graduated high school (he was my rich uncle!). When I first got it I felt like those monkeys in 2001: A Space Odessey looking at that big black thing.

What is so incredible is that the US Air Force designed the Black Bird, the F-16 and the Apollo space capsule using nothing but a slide rule.

Could modern engineers match that feat?

Davidius · #20 (**permalink**) 12-12-2007, 03:03 PM