Just wanted to let everybody know of this ministry.
The North American Reformed Seminary is a completely free, online, Reformed seminary.

If anyone is willing to help the school out, we would love to have some more folks on board.

If anyone is interested in becoming a student, we would love to have them sign up as well.

__________________
Larry Bray
Elder - Reformed Presbyterian Church of Boothwyn, PCA
Boothwyn, PA - http://www.rpcb.org/
Free Online Reformed Seminary - http://www.tnars.net
-----------------------------------------------------
Christian ritual costs nothing and is worth nothing. True Christian religion costs all that we have and is worth everything.

Thank for the reminder. I've seen this posted elsewhere. It is very intriguing. The course work looks pretty intense. A really good viable option for those not worried about the piece of paper... Also noticed that less than 4% who start actually finish... guess that is one problem with free... little easier to "blow off."

I noticed several "we"s in there... what is your role with the program?

Also, as a designer, I love the minimalist approach to the site... however, launching a new page for every link is pretty annoying.

__________________
W. Ryan Burns
Web Developer / Seminary Student
Non-Denominational

www.goingtoseminary.com - Find answers about going to seminary
www.designsimple.net - My company (anyone need a blog or website?)
Find the Best Bible

Mr. Burns,

I am a member of the Research Department. The Research Dept. manages the school and mentors the students.

I am probably going to get rid of the new window links to the tnars website pages...but we have been so concerned with getting the academics up that this has taken a lower priority.

Do ya'll have a summer program or let people take single couses a semester?

I'm currently in law school, but would like a seminary education very much. Just no time or $$.

__________________
Andrew DeShazo
Husband of Kathryn
Father of Phillip-Giles B. DeShazo
Deacon
Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church, Memphis, TN
"From out of the depth of unbroken Infinfity arose the Question, "Who am I?" And to that Question there is the answer, "I am God!" -Meher Baba, died 1969.

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Christ, died 33 AD, ressurected three days later.

Covenant Worldwide has free downloads, The Theology Program is also online for free but I doubt it's Reformed and then you have Biblical Training. I noticed NARS uses courses and outlines from TTP and BT.

j

__________________
Conscience may lash us, but it cannot replenish a languishing life. Conscience may be God's word and minister to you, telling you of your faults and your follies and your destitution. It may point out, but it will never supply you. Christ must give you new life. Hart has well expressed it: "He to the feeble and the faint, His mighty aid makes known; and when their languid life is spent, supplies it with His own." - J. K. Popham

You can start the programs any time you want, and you can go as fast or as slowly as you like.
The Admissions page has the details of what we need from the student to start the program.

Yes.
We use free resources that are found on the internet. That's one of the ways we keep the program free.
We also use copyright-free books found on sites such as Welcome | Christian Classics Ethereal Library

If i'm not mistaken we only have about 6 classes from The Theology Program, and they are at the Associate degree level. I'm not sure which ones you would consider non-Reformed, but if you could give more details about that we could certainly change the class requirements.

I see I need a letter of rec. from a church officer. Can I recommend myself?

*Knew that being a deacon had to entail more than getting complained to about the color of the fellowship hall walls*

One of the reasons we ask for a church officer to give a recommendation is so that we have someone local to the student who has spiritual oversight of them. We are not only interested in the academic, but also the spiritual growth of the student. When we get the recommendation from a church officer they are able to follow up with the students education, and we are able to contact that officer if we want to find out what's going on in the student's life at the local level.

Interesting.

How many students are currently enrolled?

__________________
Christopher Reeder
Husband to Kara, Father to Abigail (8), Caleb (7), Grace (5 1/2), Zoë (4), Elijah (2), Hannah (1), and Mary (due February 2010)

Member: Pilgrim Presbyterian Church (OPC), Raleigh, NC

The current number of enrolled students is 3, with another who is just starting the process of enrolling.

I think I might definiatly be interested in a class or two this summer, maybe before then I don't know.

I'll ask my pastor what he thiks and get him to take a look. I'm afraid it might be too much for me right now to try to take on an extra seminary class with the law load I have, although I want to do so very badly. I have to make good grades in order to get married, and I think that trumps my interest in this, at least for right now.

I am happy to know of this resource!

However, in taking a quick glance at the Master of Theology curriculum, I am struck that at the great disparity between the work required at NARS and other Reformed seminaries.

For instance, the 3 systematic theology courses each only require reading of one book (each of the three courses requires one volume of Hodge's ST), and writing a number of essays. However, one of the great benefits of seminary is not just getting a reading list, but the lectures, the explanations, the proddings of the experienced and learned professors, and interaction with other students. These seem to be absent from the NARS program, except for interaction with the mentor. However, the question remains as to the giftedness of each mentor, the time they have to give, the quality of interaction, etc.

I've done a good bit of thinking along these lines myself, as I started and run the Amarillo Theological Institute. However, our ST courses are currently taped lectures from Reformed Seminaries, and the required reading from those courses are made available in the church library, while I facilitate discussion with the students. However, I make it clear that ATI in no way takes the place of the seminary. IMO, NARS looks good for a lay person, or a RE or Deacon candidate who wants to learn more. I don't see it as in the same league as the training that is taking place at other Reformed seminaries (at this time).

However, I do encourage you to keep plodding forward in your efforts to help others grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ!

__________________
Andrew Moody
Pastor - Christ Covenant OPC - Amarillo, TX
Director - Amarillo Theological Institute
Owner - Reformation Art
Amarillo Reformed Fellowship

What is the 4% completed based on? How long has this program been available?

My intention is not to grill you, I think this is a great program for the layman and I am interested to see how well it has been going.

This is inline with my thoughts as I look at the site.

I am encouraged that such a resource is available; however, I do not agree that a person is qualified to be an ordained Teaching Elder after completing such a curriculum. There is much more required to be prepared for such a calling than reading certain books, listening to lectures and writing essays.

I think such a program is outstanding for the layman who aspires to be in a non-pastoral office such as Deacon or Ruling elder or even just to better equip him in general.

Some of our courses have lectures, others do not. For the Th.M. program notice that classes such as "Disputation of Martin Luther", "Calvin's Institutes", and others have lectures that are part of the class work.

Excellent question.
TNARS was connected to the North American Theological Society(NATS) for a time. NATS claimed adherence to the Westminster Standards, so many of us were confident of their theological perspective. It was later found out that NATS denied the doctrine of the Trinity and were, in fact, modalist. Upon learning of this I discussed the issue with the founder of NATS so as to show him the errors of modalism and why the Trinity was a biblical teaching. After some discussion it was shown that he was not convicted that the Trinity is a true doctrine. It was at this point that many of us left NATS and separated TNARS from the institution.

So...the school was around before it's current state as a seminary under NATS oversight. And it is this track record that gives us the 4% number. I'm not sure how long NATS has been in existence, but i think at least a few years. TNARS, in its current state, has only been around for a few weeks.

I understand. I'm sure there will be quite a few folks who feel the same way.

Personally, i don't think that any seminary makes a person qualified to be ordained as a TE. I think there is much more to it than an education...like piety.

That's one of the things we try to get across at TNARS...not only academics, but practical living out God's Word in the lives of the students. That's why we seek to mentor them not only in their studies, but also in their walk with God, and get their church officers involved with it.

Perhaps you could be more specific as to what else should be required from a school. It's hard to improve the program with general remarks...with more specifics we can work to improve the program.

This looks like a great resource, but I have a few questions:
1. Who teaches the courses?
2. How do you cover your costs if it is "free"? (remember the old addage: nothing is free)
3. How do you receive students? Do you not check references and attest their gifts before admitting them to the program?
4. How is the seminary governed?
5. What is the difference between a PhD and a Doctorate in Theology?

Thank you.

__________________
Stephen Welch
PCA Teaching Elder
Nova Scotia :cheers:

I am sorry, I see you may have answered some of my questions.

1. The Research Department contains those who teach the courses. Many may be involved with the grading, but only one would be the mentor and direct teacher of a particular student.

2. The cost is covered...all materials are available for free, all Research Dept. members volunteer their time...so we could use many more volunteers.

3. The "admissions" page specifies how a student becomes enrolled. Basically three things are required...
* Statement of Christian experience
* Letter of recommendation from a church officer
* Statement of your agreement with our doctrinal standards, explaining any disagreements that you have to it.

4. It is governed directly by the Research Department.

5. Why do you ask?...we don't offer either.

I am sorry I meant to say Doctor of Divinity. I was curious because many pastors are doing PhD work and I was curious what the difference was between the two.

• We are not legally permitted to award a Ph.D.
• The D.D. is specific to divinity whereas the Ph.D. is not. A Ph.D. can be in just about any subject.

Larry, this is a fair point. My advice would be for the men on the research council to dialogue with professors at seminaries such as WSC, WTS, Covenant, RTS, etc., to collect syllabi from courses and see what materials is being covered, what readings are required, etc.

You can purchase lectures of many different courses through Westminster Media: Westminster Bookstore - Reformed Books - Low Prices - $5 Shipping - Westminster Media
And you can contact the professor to request the syllabus. I just completed Dr. Gaffin's Intro to ST course with 5 men in Amarillo, and it was very profitable. Next, we are going to listen to Dr. Strimple's Doctrine of Man course, available from WSC: Westminster Seminary California Bookstore

I highly recommend you purchasing the three courses by Dr. Strimple. They each come with the course syllabus that details what is taught, what readings are required on what topics, etc...

This will give you an idea of how your current curriculum compares to what most TE's in the OPC and PCA are receiving, and will help you to continue re-forming it.

What is the relationship between this and the Wittenberg Reformed Theological Seminary, which appears to have basically the same faculty? Is the free seminary geared more toward the layman or those preparing to be an RE whereas Wittenberg (not free but very inexpensive) aimed more at those preparing for ministry?

__________________
Christian
One Pilgrims Progress

The main difference is in what will be able to be taught by each.

Because TNARS is completely free we are unable to teach from modern, copyright protected texts...so the education comes mostly from older textbooks.

WRTS will be a modern school with the students paying tuition and buying their own textbooks.

WRTS is also more confessional in nature than TNARS. TNARS seeks to be more broadly Reformed.

WRTS plans on paying teachers a percentage of the tuition received in the beginning, and moving toward giving salary if the seminary expands enough to do so. Further, a long-term goal would be to set up a brick and mortar school and receive accreditation from ARTS.

Would any courses be transferable from one to the other?

__________________
JC - PCA - PA...homesick for SC
A we n' de Ya, ho; I mak sikker; Deus juvat

Indicabo tibi o homo quid sit bonum, et quid Dominus requirat a te: Utique facere iudicium, et diligere, misericordiam, et sollicitum ambulare cum Deo tuo. Michaeas 6:8

"Who says you can't go back, been all around the world and as a matter of fact. There's only one place left I want to go, who says you can't go home" Bon Jovi

That's a little harder to say. It would be up to the WRTS Board of Directors.

I would think that the courses would transfer over, but WRTS is still not fully established. We still have to create the curriculum, become incorporated, and do a few other things to be actually operational. The Board is conducting business, but it is mostly centered on getting WRTS up and running at this point...so these types of questions will take a back seat.

But again, i would think they would transfer.

Okay, I wasn't aware the WRTS was still in the planning stages.

One of the things is that we can't "purchase" anything, nor do we want the student to have to purchase anything. The main goal is to have a completely free education.

One of the ways this serves the Body of Christ is in training up folks no matter what their financial status...which i believe is a biblical model. Why should only those who can afford (or afford to go into debt) be eligible for the ministry?

I question whether it's even biblical for someone to go into debt in order to enter the ministry.

After incurring a large debt for seminary, what do you think the chances are that the graduate will serve a small church in a low income area? Isn't more likely that they would seek out a church that can help them pay off their debt?

Besides that, there are places that we are serving outside of the U.S. We are currently working with a small Reformed denomination in the Bosnia/Croatia area. They have no seminary, and this would be a way to train men to minister to this small but growing denomination. They have not made a decision about TNARS, and one of the obstacles would be language, but there is an opportunity.

I think this is a mistake. You can't purchase a set of cd's to help you form a curriculum? You can't ask a student to purchase a book? A pastor's library is one of his most valuable tools!

I think you've shot yourself in the foot before walking out onto the track. Good training is worth an investment (by somebody). If you want to make the best possible training available for free, then that's great!!! However, don't take these short cuts and then claim to men that by going through your curriculum they will be trained for the gospel ministry. Otherwise, seek donors to make a quality education available for free.

I don't think we should be questioning the program per se, and I don't think anyone in particular is suggesting that this be a viable alternative to an M.Div from an accredited seminary for a Teaching Elder. I do think this is a great idea for deacons and ruling elders, as well as anyone who wants this level of education but doesn't have the large amounts of time or money to ship themselves off to St. Louis, Jackson, etc. to go to a Reformed Seminary.

At one point I want to attend seminary and get an M.Th and maybe a Th.D, but that time is not now and it may not occur for 20 years. Until then, I think a program like this is a great alternative, if for nothing else personal study and edification.

Larry,

Great concept that could truly benefit the body of Christ. I used to believe that free was good, now I am not so sure. I share your concerns about going into debt in order to finance a college education, but I am convinced that some tuition cost is justified in order to have complete buy-in from the student. I know that when I pay for something I more apt to appreciate it than if it is given to me for free. There are some exceptions but it is a normally the rule.

Please keep us updated as your school develops. May God use it for His glory.

__________________
Bill Brown
Elder
Reformed Baptist
Maryland

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?
Visit my BLOG Theology for the Rest of Us

With all due respect, I don't think he has "shot himself in the foot". There are plenty of men who have shelled out thousands of $$ for a degree and are not 'trained for gospel ministry". (Again respectfully) How can you make this kind of critque fairly without going through it yourself/evaluating several men who have gone through the course?

Larry, I personally think this is a great idea and feel you have raised some excellent points. Requiring godly men to go into debt to become ministers of the gospel is unbiblical and has been a source of frustration for me personally. God bless you and I will look into this when I have more time.

__________________
David E Yoder II
Deacon, serving at Covenant Presbyterian Church in Oak Ridge, TN (PCA)
Living in Knoxville, TN

What I am saying is that it is an unnecessary hinderance to training to say up front that we as an institution won't incur any costs. I'm only working with 5 guys in my class, and the church spends money on them. We print materials for them, we purchase books to have in the library for them. These are basic necessary resources for good learning. Now, the cost is minimal, about 1/10th of tuition at a normal seminary. However, it seems unreasonable to make a rule for yourself at the beginning that you won't purchase anything.

I am making a judgment that only reading Hodge's ST (however good it is, and I do like it, own it, read it, recommend it), and writing some short papers on it is adequate training in systematic theology. It is a good start, but it is only that, a start.

There are a number of great resources, other writings that are available for free online. It doesn't take thousands of dollars to put together a good reading list for a course. However, to do it well, it requires some funds.

I'm not a fan of spending tons of money on education. I don't particularly like being saddled with hefty student loans after 4 years of college and 4 years of seminary. However, I do believe the training I received was worth it. Otherwise I would be selling my church short by getting second-rate training.

There is nothing inherently noble about being "completely free." Especially if you have to cut corners to do so. For instance, according to a recent PB poll, Reymond's ST is the best thing since sliced bread. However, it can't be used in the curriculum b/c it has to be purchased.

Do you want your pastors to have the best training, or the cheapest???
Would you go to a surgeon who went to a "free" medical school somewhere, or do you want him to have had the best education possible, despite the cost?

I disagree that it is inherently a hindrance to be completely free.
I also disagree that a physical library is a basic necessary resource for learning in the age of information that we live in, with the internet providing so much more than your library probably contains.

Again, not really helpful. What else would you require for systematic theology?

Where are you getting the idea that to do something well you can't do it for free? This "get what you pay for" secular philosophy is part of the problem...that's why so many pay so much for their education, then have to dry up the funds in the church that they serve in to pay off their debt.

Either you do believe that you get what you pay for or you don't...it seems you are trying to have it both ways.
How about those churches that can't afford to pay someone enough to pay off their debt? Should they simply not exist? Should they have untrained pastors?

Just as there is nothing inherent that makes being free a hindrance.
And, i think we can use Reymond's ST if we get a membership to the Bible Centre.

I would not judge my pastor on how much he paid for his education. I would judge my pastor through examination of his knowledge, beliefs, and life among other things.

Elijah must have spent a fortune on getting ready for his gospel ministry. *laugh*

Spiritual gifts are not dependent on man and his institutions so your medical school/seminary school comparison is fallacious. If that was the case then the kingdom would have already come by now. That is my point.

There is nothing inherently noble about being "completely free" but there is something inherently sinister about peddling the gospel for cash.

Respectfully,
David

I agree. I used to be involved with a company that taught SAT test prep. We would go into High Schools and give seminars. They were mainly justs to whet the students' (parents') appetite and get them to sign up for the actual course.

We found when you offered the seminar for free it was actually taken less seriously. Less would attend and those who did would not put forth a good effort. When we charged a fee, more attended and took it much more seriously.

During our talks with school officials in setting up the conferences we would check out what kinds of shoes the students were wearing and then the fee would be the same as the price of an average pair of shoes. (Wealthier kids wear more expensive shoes) It worked out very well.

__________________


http://www.villagecommunitychurch.org/


"Preparing a sermon is like cooking a meal. You need pots and pans and utensils, but you don't bring them out to the table where people are eating." Derek Thomas


Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Perhaps if we had a cover charge for Church people would take that more seriously as well.

Let's not compare the Church to the world.

Please check out this post:

http://www.puritanboard.com/348170-post43.html

For someone who has been seeking a call, with no geographical limits to the search. I found those statements about going for less money okay providing there was the ability to live. I know one young man who came to seminary with $30K school debt for undergrad and after 7 years of school loans for his MDiv and PhD his debt load has to be over $100K so I think that the cost of the education must needs be brought into the equation.

How common is this problem? Why do we as Christians require students to go this deep into debt just to preach the gospel? If there is an area of reform it would seem to me that this would be a great place to start.