Thread: Best Seminary?

Originally Posted by nleshelman

Puritan Seminary is only $150 per credit hour. Times that by 127 credits and you get one inexpensive seminary experience. The cost of living here in GR is quite low for it being such a great mid sized city.

That is frankly amazing! And, for that you get Beeke? Wow!!!

If I were PhD bound, it would be tough to top Westminster or Southern. However, for ministerial prep, how can you go wrong at PRTS or Pipa's Greenville?

What about Calvin?
They make scholars, plus they have muller.

Originally Posted by DMcFadden

Originally Posted by nleshelman

Puritan Seminary is only $150 per credit hour. Times that by 127 credits and you get one inexpensive seminary experience. The cost of living here in GR is quite low for it being such a great mid sized city.

That is frankly amazing! And, for that you get Beeke? Wow!!!

If I were PhD bound, it would be tough to top Westminster or Southern. However, for ministerial prep, how can you go wrong at PRTS or Pipa's Greenville?

Wish God would have turned me Reformed before I went to Seminary...

Originally Posted by nleshelman

Originally Posted by jawyman

I am bias, because I attend PRTS, but I highly recommend PRTS. Studying under men like Joel Beeke is distinct honour.

No Jeff, putting a 'u' in honor is the real honor.

Guess I am biased about PRTS as well.

Nate, I guess you realised that I prefer the proper spellings of word. There are so many Canadian brothers this semester, that it is easier to add the "u's" to words.

How are things going otherwise?

Originally Posted by Blue Tick

Ok, I thought I would bring back the seminary poll again. I don't know how long it's been maybe a year or so. What are your thoughts in regards to seminaries in the US. What is the best seminary? What seminary would you support and why? Are there any schools you would avoid?

THis question depends on the goal one wants by going to seminary? To become a pastor, doctor, evangelist, etc.

Originally Posted by nleshelman

If I were PhD bound, it would be tough to top Westminster or Southern. However, for ministerial prep, how can you go wrong at PRTS or Pipa's Greenville?

While I agree somewhat to the above quote, I have to say there are many of us brother from PRTS that plan to pursue our Ph.D's and the academic rigours and scholarship we have at PRTS more than prepares us for doctoral work.

Originally Posted by westminken

Probably about 100 or so. As I said it is a very small school. Talk to Brandon Eggar at the other PCA church in SA and Aaron Scott, church planter in San Marcos. They are both graduates from WTS Dallas. Aaron is a dear friend and tell him I referred you to him.

Aaron comes from Katy. I see him at SWCPN meetings.

Many schools have their pluses and minuses.

I would add, however, that seminary is about more than the classroom. Where you degree is from can radically affect where you minister, or your ability to get a call. For example, if you went to Protestant Reformed Seminary, 9 out of 10 PCA and OPC churches won't even listen to your tapes. But if you are headed into the PRCA, then NOT going to Protestant Reformed will likely get your tapes/MP3s tossed into the round file at 9 out of 10 PRC churches.

Seminaries that have rigid and upfront distinctives (that are not part and parcel of the Confession) limt their graduates options. For that reason, I would not attend any of the very small, distinctive seminaries. One exception might be Puritan Reformed, because Beeke is so well known. Another important consideration is that seminary is for most men the first oppotunity to minister. So a larger (not necessarily huge) student body is helpful, as are churches nearby.

The advice that I would give (as a former C&C Chairman, elder on multiple pulpit committees, and connected PCAer) is that if you are considering laboring in the PCA/OPC you consider:

• RTS Jackson - CON: not the best place to live, but PRO: faculty is good, emphasis is "vanilla" Westminsterian, and plenty of church preaching opportunities
• Greenville - PRO: growing, excellent faculty, good preaching curricula/emphasis, excellent adminstration. CON: still considered (unrightly, in my view) a bit sectarian/Theonomic.
• WSC - PRO: good faculty, good language program, good connections in Reformed world. CON: cost of California, over-emphasis on Klinean viewpoints
• MARS - PRO: rock solid on issues of the day (justification, covenat theology, etc. CON: smaller than some of the others, more of a Dutch connection than PCA/OPC

Much of this is a matter of opinion. But one must not forget that Pulpit Committees have opinions that matter.

THis question depends on the goal one wants by going to seminary? To become a pastor, doctor, evangelist, etc.

My Goal would be to become a pastor.

One additional advantage of Puritan Reformed is that you are in the same vacinity as Calvin and Protestant Reformed. Puritan Reformed men in the past have taken courses at the Protestant Reformed Theological School.

Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, NC seems to be making great strides as well.

Which of the seminaries on the list would be the best for foreign missions? I know RTS Jackson has an M. Div program with a missions concentration. What about the other schools?

Without challenging everything Rev Greco says on this, I'd like to complete the picture of WSC.

Costs: Some costs are higher and some are lower. Call the sem (888 480 8474 and ask for Barabra, Mark MacVey, or Christa for information on finances and financial aid). It's hard to compare the costs and the economy in San Diego county with other economies. Our job market is better here and our wages are higher here than in other places. One can bicycle/walk/motorcycle/scooter 12 months a year here. Some food costs are lower. Further, we're about 30 min north of the city, in bedroom community where costs are more moderate. There's a big difference between costs on the coast (18 miles west) and costs inland. Escondido is one of the two least expensive places to live in San Diego county.

Theology: Fred's portrayal of Meredith Kline's influence at WSC is misleading. For example, in the course that covers Gen 1-3 (Pentateuch, the major views are all described fairly and clearly. Since Dr Estelle has been teaching this course for the last 8 years there has been no controversy. We have students across the spectrum on Gen 1 and we have faculty who represent various views on Gen 1-2.

One ought not to assume that all the faculty are equally "Klinean" on all things. Dennis Johnson and Hywel Jones, for example, did not study with Meredith. Other faculty dissent from MGK on various issues. For example, I think most, if not all of us, dissent from MGK's view of the decalogue in his later career.

That said, Meredith was defending the gospel of justification sola fide and warning about the dangers of Norm Shepherd's views when a lot of people didn't want to hear or didn't care. Wherever one comes out on Meredith's covenant theology, he did a great deal to defend the doctrine of inerrancy at the same time when the "evangelicals" were busy bailing out of inerrancy as fast as they could.

There are other reasons to attend WSC beside biblical languages.

Faculty: Let's just look at five of our faculty.

1. Mike Horton is easily among the most articulate expositors of the confessional Reformed faith in the English-speaking world. He has just finished a major 4-volume Systematic Theology and has completed a major one-volume system to be published later. This is an important milestone. It's one thing to write a system that repeats the truth, which is essential, it's another thing to engage the contemporary philosophical, theological, and biblical-exegetical scholarship intelligently, creatively, and confessionally and that's what Horton has done. If you haven't read this series, you're missing out. This series is only one facet of his work. He also hosts The White Horse Inn and edits Modern Reformation magazine. On top of all that he serves actively at Christ Reformed URC in Santee.

2. Steve Baugh is one of the world's leading experts on the first-century backgrounds of the New Testament. He's published two influential Greek Grammars and written extensively on the role of women in the NT church.

3. Hywel Jones was assistant to D. Martyn-Lloyd Jones, principal of a seminary in London, and a long-time pastor. He is a productive author in a variety of fields from ministry to OT commentary. Hywel's preaching is so outstanding that, by consensus of the faculty, he has a standing tuesday morning chapel address during the semester. You can hear those chapel messages on iTunes.

4. David VanDrunen is doing ground-breaking work in Reformed ethics providing a coherent, thoughtful, biblical, historically Reformed alternative to theonomy and Reconstructionism. Whatever one thinks about theonomy and related issues, VanDrunen has changed the field and provided an important alternative and opened new avenues of study for those committed to the Reformed confessions.

5. Bob Godfrey has been a leading voice in the recovery of Reformed confessional theology, piety, and practice for more than 30 years. In the 70s Bob was one of the leaders in opposing Norm Shepherd's moralism at WTS/P and one of the advocates for a high doctrine of Scripture and world evangelization. In the 80s and 90s he was a leading voice opposing the drift in the CRC toward broad evangelicalism and liberalism. He was influential in the formation of the URCs and, in recent years, has published a series of books in history, practical theology, and biblical studies.

Students: We have students from across the globe. This is a great group of students with whom to study and pray.

Focus on Pastoral Ministry: 70% of our students are headed for pastoral ministry in NAPARC congregations. This is the chief reason the seminary was founded. Within that emphasis on pastoral ministry is a strong emphasis on preaching. We're constantly working to be sure that our MDiv students are getting the best instruction possible in order to build a strong foundation for pastoral ministry. We focus on the languages in order that students will be able to handle God's Word well. We work on hermeneutics and link that work closely to homiletics. Discussions in class over often move from one to the other. The faculty are all preachers so we think about how what we say in class, whether in ST or PT or CH will preach or affect or inform the preaching of the Word.

There is more to be said, but I think it's important that people have a clearer picture of what WSC is about.

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The WP entry is comprehensive and seems accurate.

Actually, Scott is right but does not tell the whole story. His own work and productivity have also brought positive attention to the school. Look at either his scholarly pieces or his more popular books and articles. The man is a machine! Both Westminster Philadelphia and California have the kind of faculties to make a dean either blush with pride when surveying the other schools.

Among his publications are Recovering the Reformed Confession, Covenant, Justification, and Pastoral Ministry (editor and contributor), Caspar Olevian and the Substance of the Covenant: The Double Benefit of Christ, Protestant Scholasticism: Essays in Reassessment (editor and contributor), Reforming or Conforming: Post-Conservative Evangelicals and the the Emerging Church (contributor), Baptism, Covenant, and Election, Theological Guide to Calvin’s Institutes: Essays and Analysis (contributor), The Compromised Church: The Present Evangelical Crisis (contributor), The Pattern of Sound Doctrine: Systematic Theology at the Westminster Seminaries: Essays in Honor of Robert B. Strimple (contributor), The Westminster Confession into the 21st Century: Essays in Remembrance of the 350th Anniversary of the Publication of the Westminster Confession of Faith (contributor), The Faith Once Delivered: Celebrating the Legacy of Reformed Systematic Theology and the Westminster Assembly. Essays in Honor of Dr. Wayne R. Spear (contributor), The New Dictionary of Theology (contributor), The New Dictionary of Christian Apologetics (contributor), and Covenant, Justification, and Pastoral Ministry: Essays by the Faculty of Westminster Seminary California (editor and contributor). He has also written for Westminster Theological Journal, The Concordia Theological Quarterly, Tabletalk, Modern Reformation, etc.

If you want a top rank academic prep for ministry, there is no shortage of Reformed options. Really, any of the schools being written about in this thread would do the job (RTS, Covenant, WTS, etc.). And, as one of the posts observed, a good student could get into a fine doctoral program from almost any of the Reformed schools listed in the poll. Still, Clark has much to be proud of at Westminster. Personally, I just picked up the fourth volume of Horton's systematics and NEVER miss a White Horse Inn.

My emotional feelings for Greenville and PRTS relate to the "we try harder" attitude of a small school attempting to train men for ministry. Frankly, while you could hardly do better than the faculty of some of the top Reformed schools listed, you would certainly not do badly training for the pastorate at places where Beeke and Pipa are exercising leadership! It is more like the choice between the chocolate, berry, or pecan pie at the pie specialty restaurant. Which one is the best? Yes.

Dennis,
Amen! Thank you for the above post. I like to think that it is because you are older than me that you are wise, however, I am sure that there is more to it than that.
I must admit that when I saw the title of this thread my alarm bells started ringing. No seminary is perfect, all have their strengths and weaknesses. Find the one that best matches your personality and ministry goals. However, we must gracious in our areas of difference with other seminaries.

Dr Clark- on a cold, dark night in St Louis you must cease and desist posting photos of sunny Escondido.

I find it interesting that no one has voted for Knox yet.

Originally Posted by CharlieJ

I suppose that it depends to some degree on what you are looking for. For a Reformed M.Div, I think GPTS and PRTS have a lot to offer that other schools don't. For sheer quality faculty production, WSC or Southern. For an academically-oriented MA, I would have to pick an accredited school like Covenant, WTS, or TEDS. For PhD work with real academic recognition, Southern, WTS, or TEDS.

I think people should avoid going to a school for one star professor they've fallen in love with. I have a lot of friends who wanted to go to TEDS because of D.A. Carson, only to realize he doesn't actually teach very many classes. I think MA's tend to be better at bigger schools, where the faculty can be more specialized. I'm in an MA at GPTS and I think the school is awesome, but it definitely wasn't designed with my program in mind.

A part of me wants to include DTS, but unless you're going for straight languages, I think their hermeneutics are too reductionist and their systematic philosophy is a little skeptical.

TEDS is very expensive. Tuition is $14,000 for a full load (one year) of classes and they do not have many scholarships outside of the church match grant. You can capitalize the most off of the church match grant if you belong to an EFCA church. That can save you money, around $4,000 a year. Everyone who is involved in a church gets $2,000 off, so TEDS can be reasonable. The reason TEDS is so expensive is that it is in a very expensive area of Chicago, they don't get any money from the denomination, and they give all of their professors sabbaticals every three years. Some get sabbaticals every two years (Carson, Vanhoozer, Woodbridge) and they get one full year off (plus two summers). This means that the teachers publish like no other evangelical institution that I am aware of can. Carson is slowly retiring. I made the mistake of hoping I could take classes with him, and soon found out that he is only teaching one Master's level class this semester. TEDS does not put put their class schedule out until a few months before the semester, so I had no way of knowing this, even though Carson is my adviser.

Originally Posted by 21st Century Calvinist

Dr Clark- on a cold, dark night in St Louis you must cease and desist posting photos of sunny Escondido.

Come on out. The weather is fine. The busses will wait.

Originally Posted by Calvinist Cowboy

I find it interesting that no one has voted for Knox yet.

Knox has went down hill fast the last number of years....sort of in the same way that Calvin Seminary has.

Originally Posted by bconway52

Originally Posted by Calvinist Cowboy

I find it interesting that no one has voted for Knox yet.

Knox has went down hill fast the last number of years....sort of in the same way that Calvin Seminary has.

What is happening at Knox? (other than Kennedy's death, the Gage controversy, and the fact that R.C. left)

Originally Posted by Calvinist Cowboy

Originally Posted by bconway52

Originally Posted by Calvinist Cowboy

I find it interesting that no one has voted for Knox yet.

Knox has went down hill fast the last number of years....sort of in the same way that Calvin Seminary has.

What is happening at Knox? (other than Kennedy's death, the Gage controversy, and the fact that R.C. left)

What else could go wrong?

Originally Posted by nleshelman

Originally Posted by Calvinist Cowboy

Originally Posted by bconway52

Knox has went down hill fast the last number of years....sort of in the same way that Calvin Seminary has.

What is happening at Knox? (other than Kennedy's death, the Gage controversy, and the fact that R.C. left)

What else could go wrong?

Very true.

Northwest Theological Seminary gets my vote--and not just because I go there. I go there because I thought it was the best. Price is insanely low, they focus heavily on primary document research and extreme academic rigor. They are in a nutshell focused on Christocentric Confessional Reformed Biblical Theology.

Originally Posted by Calvinist Cowboy

Originally Posted by bconway52

Originally Posted by Calvinist Cowboy

I find it interesting that no one has voted for Knox yet.

Knox has went down hill fast the last number of years....sort of in the same way that Calvin Seminary has.

What is happening at Knox? (other than Kennedy's death, the Gage controversy, and the fact that R.C. left)

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?

Originally Posted by DMcFadden

Originally Posted by Calvinist Cowboy

Originally Posted by bconway52

Knox has went down hill fast the last number of years....sort of in the same way that Calvin Seminary has.

What is happening at Knox? (other than Kennedy's death, the Gage controversy, and the fact that R.C. left)

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?