That is frankly amazing! And, for that you get Beeke? Wow!!!

If I were PhD bound, it would be tough to top Westminster or Southern. However, for ministerial prep, how can you go wrong at PRTS or Pipa's Greenville?

__________________
Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

What about Calvin?
They make scholars, plus they have muller.

__________________
Patrick
Covenant (OPC), Brighton, MI

Wish God would have turned me Reformed before I went to Seminary...

__________________
Benjamin P. Glaser, M. Div, Licentiate, Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church
Member Fairmount ARP Church
Pittsburgh, PA

Deo Vindice

Nate, I guess you realised that I prefer the proper spellings of word. There are so many Canadian brothers this semester, that it is easier to add the "u's" to words.

How are things going otherwise?

__________________
Jeff Wyman
Man Under Care
Little Farms Chapel OPC, Coopersville, MI
Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary

"Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other." - Isaiah 45:22 (ESV)

THis question depends on the goal one wants by going to seminary? To become a pastor, doctor, evangelist, etc.

__________________
Rev. Andrew J. Barnes
Husband of Dena
Father of Oliver
Master of Bruce
Pastor of Tchula Presbyterian Church

What can I say, I like blogs!

While I agree somewhat to the above quote, I have to say there are many of us brother from PRTS that plan to pursue our Ph.D's and the academic rigours and scholarship we have at PRTS more than prepares us for doctoral work.

Aaron comes from Katy. I see him at SWCPN meetings.

__________________
Fred Greco
Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA (Katy, TX)
Christ Church Blog

"The heart is the main thing in true religion...It is the hinge and turning-point in the condition of man's soul. If the heart is alive to God and quickened by the Spirit, the man is a living Christian. If the heart is dead and has not the Spirit, the man is dead before God." (J.C. Ryle)

Many schools have their pluses and minuses.

I would add, however, that seminary is about more than the classroom. Where you degree is from can radically affect where you minister, or your ability to get a call. For example, if you went to Protestant Reformed Seminary, 9 out of 10 PCA and OPC churches won't even listen to your tapes. But if you are headed into the PRCA, then NOT going to Protestant Reformed will likely get your tapes/MP3s tossed into the round file at 9 out of 10 PRC churches.

Seminaries that have rigid and upfront distinctives (that are not part and parcel of the Confession) limt their graduates options. For that reason, I would not attend any of the very small, distinctive seminaries. One exception might be Puritan Reformed, because Beeke is so well known. Another important consideration is that seminary is for most men the first oppotunity to minister. So a larger (not necessarily huge) student body is helpful, as are churches nearby.

The advice that I would give (as a former C&C Chairman, elder on multiple pulpit committees, and connected PCAer) is that if you are considering laboring in the PCA/OPC you consider:

• RTS Jackson - CON: not the best place to live, but PRO: faculty is good, emphasis is "vanilla" Westminsterian, and plenty of church preaching opportunities
• Greenville - PRO: growing, excellent faculty, good preaching curricula/emphasis, excellent adminstration. CON: still considered (unrightly, in my view) a bit sectarian/Theonomic.
• WSC - PRO: good faculty, good language program, good connections in Reformed world. CON: cost of California, over-emphasis on Klinean viewpoints
• MARS - PRO: rock solid on issues of the day (justification, covenat theology, etc. CON: smaller than some of the others, more of a Dutch connection than PCA/OPC

Much of this is a matter of opinion. But one must not forget that Pulpit Committees have opinions that matter.

My Goal would be to become a pastor.

__________________
John
Member
Christ Presbyterian Church (OPC)
Salt Lake City, Utah
www.christpres.net

One additional advantage of Puritan Reformed is that you are in the same vacinity as Calvin and Protestant Reformed. Puritan Reformed men in the past have taken courses at the Protestant Reformed Theological School.

__________________
Thomas Yeutter,
Mason, MI
Member St. Patrick's Anglican Church, Comstock, MI

Ezra 7:10 For Ezra had set his heart to study the law of the Lord and to do it and to teach its statues in Isreal.

Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, NC seems to be making great strides as well.

__________________
Christian
One Pilgrims Progress

Which of the seminaries on the list would be the best for foreign missions? I know RTS Jackson has an M. Div program with a missions concentration. What about the other schools?

__________________
Dan Dorman
Member of Pilgrim OPC in my hometown-Bangor, Maine
Currently attending Christ the King OPC in Longview, Texas, where I am a college student

“The happiness of the creature consists in rejoicing in God, by which also God is magnified and exalted” -Jonathan Edwards
What is meant by "Christian Hedonism"?

Without challenging everything Rev Greco says on this, I'd like to complete the picture of WSC.

Costs: Some costs are higher and some are lower. Call the sem (888 480 8474 and ask for Barabra, Mark MacVey, or Christa for information on finances and financial aid). It's hard to compare the costs and the economy in San Diego county with other economies. Our job market is better here and our wages are higher here than in other places. One can bicycle/walk/motorcycle/scooter 12 months a year here. Some food costs are lower. Further, we're about 30 min north of the city, in bedroom community where costs are more moderate. There's a big difference between costs on the coast (18 miles west) and costs inland. Escondido is one of the two least expensive places to live in San Diego county.

Theology: Fred's portrayal of Meredith Kline's influence at WSC is misleading. For example, in the course that covers Gen 1-3 (Pentateuch, the major views are all described fairly and clearly. Since Dr Estelle has been teaching this course for the last 8 years there has been no controversy. We have students across the spectrum on Gen 1 and we have faculty who represent various views on Gen 1-2.

One ought not to assume that all the faculty are equally "Klinean" on all things. Dennis Johnson and Hywel Jones, for example, did not study with Meredith. Other faculty dissent from MGK on various issues. For example, I think most, if not all of us, dissent from MGK's view of the decalogue in his later career.

That said, Meredith was defending the gospel of justification sola fide and warning about the dangers of Norm Shepherd's views when a lot of people didn't want to hear or didn't care. Wherever one comes out on Meredith's covenant theology, he did a great deal to defend the doctrine of inerrancy at the same time when the "evangelicals" were busy bailing out of inerrancy as fast as they could.

There are other reasons to attend WSC beside biblical languages.

Faculty: Let's just look at five of our faculty.

1. Mike Horton is easily among the most articulate expositors of the confessional Reformed faith in the English-speaking world. He has just finished a major 4-volume Systematic Theology and has completed a major one-volume system to be published later. This is an important milestone. It's one thing to write a system that repeats the truth, which is essential, it's another thing to engage the contemporary philosophical, theological, and biblical-exegetical scholarship intelligently, creatively, and confessionally and that's what Horton has done. If you haven't read this series, you're missing out. This series is only one facet of his work. He also hosts The White Horse Inn and edits Modern Reformation magazine. On top of all that he serves actively at Christ Reformed URC in Santee.

2. Steve Baugh is one of the world's leading experts on the first-century backgrounds of the New Testament. He's published two influential Greek Grammars and written extensively on the role of women in the NT church.

3. Hywel Jones was assistant to D. Martyn-Lloyd Jones, principal of a seminary in London, and a long-time pastor. He is a productive author in a variety of fields from ministry to OT commentary. Hywel's preaching is so outstanding that, by consensus of the faculty, he has a standing tuesday morning chapel address during the semester. You can hear those chapel messages on iTunes.

4. David VanDrunen is doing ground-breaking work in Reformed ethics providing a coherent, thoughtful, biblical, historically Reformed alternative to theonomy and Reconstructionism. Whatever one thinks about theonomy and related issues, VanDrunen has changed the field and provided an important alternative and opened new avenues of study for those committed to the Reformed confessions.

5. Bob Godfrey has been a leading voice in the recovery of Reformed confessional theology, piety, and practice for more than 30 years. In the 70s Bob was one of the leaders in opposing Norm Shepherd's moralism at WTS/P and one of the advocates for a high doctrine of Scripture and world evangelization. In the 80s and 90s he was a leading voice opposing the drift in the CRC toward broad evangelicalism and liberalism. He was influential in the formation of the URCs and, in recent years, has published a series of books in history, practical theology, and biblical studies.

Students: We have students from across the globe. This is a great group of students with whom to study and pray.

Focus on Pastoral Ministry: 70% of our students are headed for pastoral ministry in NAPARC congregations. This is the chief reason the seminary was founded. Within that emphasis on pastoral ministry is a strong emphasis on preaching. We're constantly working to be sure that our MDiv students are getting the best instruction possible in order to build a strong foundation for pastoral ministry. We focus on the languages in order that students will be able to handle God's Word well. We work on hermeneutics and link that work closely to homiletics. Discussions in class over often move from one to the other. The faculty are all preachers so we think about how what we say in class, whether in ST or PT or CH will preach or affect or inform the preaching of the Word.

There is more to be said, but I think it's important that people have a clearer picture of what WSC is about.

__________________
R. Scott Clark, D.Phil
Westminster Seminary California
Associate Pastor, Oceanside URC
The Heidelcast Podcast
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Downtown Escondido:



The WP entry is comprehensive and seems accurate.

Actually, Scott is right but does not tell the whole story. His own work and productivity have also brought positive attention to the school. Look at either his scholarly pieces or his more popular books and articles. The man is a machine! Both Westminster Philadelphia and California have the kind of faculties to make a dean either blush with pride when surveying the other schools.

If you want a top rank academic prep for ministry, there is no shortage of Reformed options. Really, any of the schools being written about in this thread would do the job (RTS, Covenant, WTS, etc.). And, as one of the posts observed, a good student could get into a fine doctoral program from almost any of the Reformed schools listed in the poll. Still, Clark has much to be proud of at Westminster. Personally, I just picked up the fourth volume of Horton's systematics and NEVER miss a White Horse Inn.

My emotional feelings for Greenville and PRTS relate to the "we try harder" attitude of a small school attempting to train men for ministry. Frankly, while you could hardly do better than the faculty of some of the top Reformed schools listed, you would certainly not do badly training for the pastorate at places where Beeke and Pipa are exercising leadership! It is more like the choice between the chocolate, berry, or pecan pie at the pie specialty restaurant. Which one is the best? Yes.

Dennis,
Amen! Thank you for the above post. I like to think that it is because you are older than me that you are wise, however, I am sure that there is more to it than that.
I must admit that when I saw the title of this thread my alarm bells started ringing. No seminary is perfect, all have their strengths and weaknesses. Find the one that best matches your personality and ministry goals. However, we must gracious in our areas of difference with other seminaries.

Dr Clark- on a cold, dark night in St Louis you must cease and desist posting photos of sunny Escondido.

__________________
Donnie MacLeod
Crossroads Presbyterian Fellowship (PCA), Maplewood, MO
MDiv Student Covenant Theological Seminary

You filled my heart with greater joy
than others may have found
As they rejoiced at harvest time,
when grain and wine abound.Ps 4:7, Sing Psalms 2003

I find it interesting that no one has voted for Knox yet.

__________________
Ben Castaneda
member of Faith Presbyterian Church (PCA)
San Antonio, TX
MDiv student at WSC
Escondido, CA

"Not all prison bars are made from metal, And not all prisoners walk about in chains." -Lysander from Weatherby, Earl of Gloucester

TEDS is very expensive. Tuition is $14,000 for a full load (one year) of classes and they do not have many scholarships outside of the church match grant. You can capitalize the most off of the church match grant if you belong to an EFCA church. That can save you money, around $4,000 a year. Everyone who is involved in a church gets $2,000 off, so TEDS can be reasonable. The reason TEDS is so expensive is that it is in a very expensive area of Chicago, they don't get any money from the denomination, and they give all of their professors sabbaticals every three years. Some get sabbaticals every two years (Carson, Vanhoozer, Woodbridge) and they get one full year off (plus two summers). This means that the teachers publish like no other evangelical institution that I am aware of can. Carson is slowly retiring. I made the mistake of hoping I could take classes with him, and soon found out that he is only teaching one Master's level class this semester. TEDS does not put put their class schedule out until a few months before the semester, so I had no way of knowing this, even though Carson is my adviser.

__________________
Jeremy Ellis
Member of the Village Church of Bartlett
Bartlett, IL

Come on out. The weather is fine. The busses will wait.

Knox has went down hill fast the last number of years....sort of in the same way that Calvin Seminary has.

__________________
Bradley Conway
Gainesville, GA
Chalcedon Presbyterian Church


"You may as well quit reading and hearing the Word of God, and give it to the devil, if you do not desire to live according to it."
- Martin Luther

What is happening at Knox? (other than Kennedy's death, the Gage controversy, and the fact that R.C. left)

What else could go wrong?

__________________
Pastor Nathan Eshelman, Los Angeles, CA
Reformed Presbyterian Church
PRESBYTERIAN THOUGHTS
Los Angeles Reformed Presbyterian Church
RPCLA Sermons Online
Puritan Reformed Seminary

Very true.

Northwest Theological Seminary gets my vote--and not just because I go there. I go there because I thought it was the best. Price is insanely low, they focus heavily on primary document research and extreme academic rigor. They are in a nutshell focused on Christocentric Confessional Reformed Biblical Theology.

__________________
Andrew Tucker
Member, Aestus Church
Renton, WA
1st Year M.Div. Student -- Northwest Theological Seminary

"God hath yet more light to break forth from his word...We have more until Jesus comes.. more and more and more and more; can you plumb the length and breadth and height and depth of the love of God for his church?" --John Robinson/James Dennison

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?