WSC 74- We are required to procure wealth???

Puritan Sailor · #1 (**permalink**) 01-24-2008, 12:47 AM

WSC
Question 74:
What is required in the eight commandment?
Answer:
The eight commandment requireth the lawful procuring and furthering the wealth and outward estate of ourselves and others.
Proof texts: Rom 12:17, Prov 27:23, Lev 25:35, Phil 2:4

Am I reading this right? Is this saying I'm required to gain wealth? Or is this just a 17th century way of speaking that I'm not familiar with?

Pilgrim · #2 (**permalink**) 01-24-2008, 01:26 AM

Here are the proof texts:

Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. (Rom. 12:17)

Be thou diligent to know the state of thy flocks, and look well to thy herds. (Prov. 27:23)

And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee. (Lev 25:35)

Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. (Phil. 2:4)

Semper Fidelis · #3 (**permalink**) 01-24-2008, 01:56 AM

As I see it, Patrick, the positive command is to work hard, to be honest in our work, to provide for our families (estate), and to those in need.

One of the ways we steal from others is by not working as hard as we ought in our employment and not giving an honest days work to others or even in using dishonest scales.

I also think there is a basic principle that a man is supposed to provide for his household in his diligent work. Paul calls men that don't work and don't provide for their households worse than pagans and those that deny the faith. We are not to be slothful or idle but to be hard-working for our families.

Even the notion that we would pass on an inheritance and not leave debt behind for our children is commended. I don't think what the notion here is that you're amassing wealth simply for the sake of amassing wealth but that you are earning an honest days wage to provide for others in your family as well as to build up an estate that you can bless your progeny with later on in life.

Daniel Ritchie · #4 (**permalink**) 01-24-2008, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemperFideles

As I see it, Patrick, the positive command is to work hard, to be honest in our work, to provide for our families (estate), and to those in need.

One of the ways we steal from others is by not working as hard as we ought in our employment and not giving an honest days work to others or even in using dishonest scales.

I also think there is a basic principle that a man is supposed to provide for his household in his diligent work. Paul calls men that don't work and don't provide for their households worse than pagans and those that deny the faith. We are not to be slothful or idle but to be hard-working for our families.

Even the notion that we would pass on an inheritance and not leave debt behind for our children is commended. I don't think what the notion here is that you're amassing wealth simply for the sake of amassing wealth but that you are earning an honest days wage to provide for others in your family as well as to build up an estate that you can bless your progeny with later on in life.

Building wealth is a tool of dominion, a means by which we can subdue the earth by owning property, investing in business etc.

Amazing Grace · #5 (**permalink**) 01-24-2008, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemperFideles

As I see it, Patrick, the positive command is to work hard, to be honest in our work, to provide for our families (estate), and to those in need.

One of the ways we steal from others is by not working as hard as we ought in our employment and not giving an honest days work to others or even in using dishonest scales.

I also think there is a basic principle that a man is supposed to provide for his household in his diligent work. Paul calls men that don't work and don't provide for their households worse than pagans and those that deny the faith. We are not to be slothful or idle but to be hard-working for our families.

Even the notion that we would pass on an inheritance and not leave debt behind for our children is commended. I don't think what the notion here is that you're amassing wealth simply for the sake of amassing wealth but that you are earning an honest days wage to provide for others in your family as well as to build up an estate that you can bless your progeny with later on in life.

Rich:

THis topic has been discussed lately in a study. I am coming to the conclusion that the last statement must be taken with much caution and believe that leaving an inheritance MAY go against Christ's teaching in Luke 12.

16And He told them a parable, saying, "The land of a rich man was very productive.

17"And he began reasoning to himself, saying, 'What shall I do, since I have no place to store my crops?'

18"Then he said, 'This is what I will do: I will tear down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods.

19'And I will say to my soul, "Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years to come; take your ease, eat, drink and be merry."'

20"But God said to him, 'You fool! This very night your soul is required of you; and now who will own what you have prepared?'

I just do not know what to make of this parable.... Especially verse 20..

Daniel Ritchie · #6 (**permalink**) 01-24-2008, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amazing Grace

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemperFideles

As I see it, Patrick, the positive command is to work hard, to be honest in our work, to provide for our families (estate), and to those in need.

One of the ways we steal from others is by not working as hard as we ought in our employment and not giving an honest days work to others or even in using dishonest scales.

I also think there is a basic principle that a man is supposed to provide for his household in his diligent work. Paul calls men that don't work and don't provide for their households worse than pagans and those that deny the faith. We are not to be slothful or idle but to be hard-working for our families.

Even the notion that we would pass on an inheritance and not leave debt behind for our children is commended. I don't think what the notion here is that you're amassing wealth simply for the sake of amassing wealth but that you are earning an honest days wage to provide for others in your family as well as to build up an estate that you can bless your progeny with later on in life.

Rich:

THis topic has been discussed lately in a study. I am coming to the conclusion that the last statement must be taken with much caution and believe that leaving an inheritance MAY go against Christ's teaching in Luke 12.

16And He told them a parable, saying, "The land of a rich man was very productive.

17"And he began reasoning to himself, saying, 'What shall I do, since I have no place to store my crops?'

18"Then he said, 'This is what I will do: I will tear down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods.

19'And I will say to my soul, "Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years to come; take your ease, eat, drink and be merry."'

20"But God said to him, 'You fool! This very night your soul is required of you; and now who will own what you have prepared?'

I just do not know what to make of this parable.... Especially verse 20..

Inheritances are not the same as what the fool was doing here; he was laying up riches for a life of ease, not providing his offspring with the means to subdue the earth through diligent work and investment.

Amazing Grace · #7 (**permalink**) 01-24-2008, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Ritchie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amazing Grace

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemperFideles

As I see it, Patrick, the positive command is to work hard, to be honest in our work, to provide for our families (estate), and to those in need.

One of the ways we steal from others is by not working as hard as we ought in our employment and not giving an honest days work to others or even in using dishonest scales.

I also think there is a basic principle that a man is supposed to provide for his household in his diligent work. Paul calls men that don't work and don't provide for their households worse than pagans and those that deny the faith. We are not to be slothful or idle but to be hard-working for our families.

Even the notion that we would pass on an inheritance and not leave debt behind for our children is commended. I don't think what the notion here is that you're amassing wealth simply for the sake of amassing wealth but that you are earning an honest days wage to provide for others in your family as well as to build up an estate that you can bless your progeny with later on in life.

Rich:

THis topic has been discussed lately in a study. I am coming to the conclusion that the last statement must be taken with much caution and believe that leaving an inheritance MAY go against Christ's teaching in Luke 12.

16And He told them a parable, saying, "The land of a rich man was very productive.

17"And he began reasoning to himself, saying, 'What shall I do, since I have no place to store my crops?'

18"Then he said, 'This is what I will do: I will tear down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods.

19'And I will say to my soul, "Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years to come; take your ease, eat, drink and be merry."'

20"But God said to him, 'You fool! This very night your soul is required of you; and now who will own what you have prepared?'

I just do not know what to make of this parable.... Especially verse 20..

Inheritances are not the same as what the fool was doing here; he was laying up riches for a life of ease, not providing his offspring with the means to subdue the earth through diligent work and investment.

Besides totally disagreeing with you view of dominion, I still do not understand verse 20 at all Daniel. His children would have owned it. Why is Christ callign him a fool for this?

Semper Fidelis · #8 (**permalink**) 01-24-2008, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amazing Grace

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemperFideles

As I see it, Patrick, the positive command is to work hard, to be honest in our work, to provide for our families (estate), and to those in need.

One of the ways we steal from others is by not working as hard as we ought in our employment and not giving an honest days work to others or even in using dishonest scales.

I also think there is a basic principle that a man is supposed to provide for his household in his diligent work. Paul calls men that don't work and don't provide for their households worse than pagans and those that deny the faith. We are not to be slothful or idle but to be hard-working for our families.

Even the notion that we would pass on an inheritance and not leave debt behind for our children is commended. I don't think what the notion here is that you're amassing wealth simply for the sake of amassing wealth but that you are earning an honest days wage to provide for others in your family as well as to build up an estate that you can bless your progeny with later on in life.

Rich:

THis topic has been discussed lately in a study. I am coming to the conclusion that the last statement must be taken with much caution and believe that leaving an inheritance MAY go against Christ's teaching in Luke 12.

16And He told them a parable, saying, "The land of a rich man was very productive.

17"And he began reasoning to himself, saying, 'What shall I do, since I have no place to store my crops?'

18"Then he said, 'This is what I will do: I will tear down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods.

19'And I will say to my soul, "Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years to come; take your ease, eat, drink and be merry."'

20"But God said to him, 'You fool! This very night your soul is required of you; and now who will own what you have prepared?'

I just do not know what to make of this parable.... Especially verse 20..

Two completely different categories. I did not state that we accrue in order to go into retirement and ease our soul. Honestly, the idea of just amassing wealth to go on cruises or feed my flesh is repugnant to me. I hope to be working diligently in some capacity, to the glory of God, until I'm laid to rest. I noted that we are supposed to work to provide for our household, for others, and ultimately to our progeny. If an inheritance was wicked then the father in the Parable of the Prodigal Son is a wicked individual. The notion of inheritance is built in to the Old Testament and is one of the things protected by the Law. It is also the analogy that God uses to refer to how we instill a Godly desire for God in our children.

Ivanhoe · #9 (**permalink**) 01-24-2008, 06:56 AM

In Proverbs it says a wise man leaves an inheritance for his children. Proverbs 13:22

Quote:

A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children: and the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just.

The bible says it; that settles it.

Of course, the modern state, by taxing and penalizing hard work, makes that difficult.

Daniel Ritchie · #10 (**permalink**) 01-24-2008, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amazing Grace

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Ritchie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amazing Grace

Rich:

THis topic has been discussed lately in a study. I am coming to the conclusion that the last statement must be taken with much caution and believe that leaving an inheritance MAY go against Christ's teaching in Luke 12.

16And He told them a parable, saying, "The land of a rich man was very productive.

17"And he began reasoning to himself, saying, 'What shall I do, since I have no place to store my crops?'

18"Then he said, 'This is what I will do: I will tear down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods.

19'And I will say to my soul, "Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years to come; take your ease, eat, drink and be merry."'

20"But God said to him, 'You fool! This very night your soul is required of you; and now who will own what you have prepared?'

I just do not know what to make of this parable.... Especially verse 20..

Inheritances are not the same as what the fool was doing here; he was laying up riches for a life of ease, not providing his offspring with the means to subdue the earth through diligent work and investment.

Besides totally disagreeing with you view of dominion, I still do not understand verse 20 at all Daniel. His children would have owned it. Why is Christ callign him a fool for this?

Verse 19 answers the question "Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years to come; take your ease, eat, drink and be merry."' He was laying up riches so that he could take a time of retirement to spend in ease before his death, instead of using his wealth to work to the glory of God - i.e. exercising godly dominion (Gen. 9; Psa. 8). This is one reason why Christians must oppose the retirement/pension culture; we are commanded to work until we return to the ground, not take an early Sabbath late in life.

Amazing Grace · #11 (**permalink**) 01-24-2008, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemperFideles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amazing Grace

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemperFideles

As I see it, Patrick, the positive command is to work hard, to be honest in our work, to provide for our families (estate), and to those in need.

One of the ways we steal from others is by not working as hard as we ought in our employment and not giving an honest days work to others or even in using dishonest scales.

I also think there is a basic principle that a man is supposed to provide for his household in his diligent work. Paul calls men that don't work and don't provide for their households worse than pagans and those that deny the faith. We are not to be slothful or idle but to be hard-working for our families.

Even the notion that we would pass on an inheritance and not leave debt behind for our children is commended. I don't think what the notion here is that you're amassing wealth simply for the sake of amassing wealth but that you are earning an honest days wage to provide for others in your family as well as to build up an estate that you can bless your progeny with later on in life.

Rich:

THis topic has been discussed lately in a study. I am coming to the conclusion that the last statement must be taken with much caution and believe that leaving an inheritance MAY go against Christ's teaching in Luke 12.

16And He told them a parable, saying, "The land of a rich man was very productive.

17"And he began reasoning to himself, saying, 'What shall I do, since I have no place to store my crops?'

18"Then he said, 'This is what I will do: I will tear down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods.

19'And I will say to my soul, "Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years to come; take your ease, eat, drink and be merry."'

20"But God said to him, 'You fool! This very night your soul is required of you; and now who will own what you have prepared?'

I just do not know what to make of this parable.... Especially verse 20..

Two completely different categories. I did not state that we accrue in order to go into retirement and ease our soul. Honestly, the idea of just amassing wealth to go on cruises or feed my flesh is repugnant to me. I hope to be working diligently in some capacity, to the glory of God, until I'm laid to rest. I noted that we are supposed to work to provide for our household, for others, and ultimately to our progeny. If an inheritance was wicked then the father in the Parable of the Prodigal Son is a wicked individual. The notion of inheritance is built in to the Old Testament and is one of the things protected by the Law. It is also the analogy that God uses to refer to how we instill a Godly desire for God in our children.

It is amazing how I can miss something like this at times so simple.

Amazing Grace · #12 (**permalink**) 01-24-2008, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Ritchie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amazing Grace

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Ritchie

Inheritances are not the same as what the fool was doing here; he was laying up riches for a life of ease, not providing his offspring with the means to subdue the earth through diligent work and investment.

Besides totally disagreeing with you view of dominion, I still do not understand verse 20 at all Daniel. His children would have owned it. Why is Christ callign him a fool for this?

Verse 19 answers the question "Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years to come; take your ease, eat, drink and be merry."' He was laying up riches so that he could take a time of retirement to spend in ease before his death, instead of using his wealth to work to the glory of God - i.e. exercising godly dominion (Gen. 9; Psa. 8). This is one reason why Christians must oppose the retirement/pension culture; we are commanded to work until we return to the ground, not take an early Sabbath late in life.

Good point Daniel. It is not the storing up for inheritance which makes this man a fool, it is his thought of retirement, which appears to be an unbiblical concept..

Semper Fidelis · #13 (**permalink**) 01-24-2008, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amazing Grace

It is amazing how I can miss something like this at times so simple.

Be encouraged, at least it's not like you're a Galatian and those like them that are missing something even more simple!

Daniel Ritchie · #14 (**permalink**) 01-24-2008, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spear Dane

In Proverbs it says a wise man leaves an inheritance for his children. Proverbs 13:22

Quote:

A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children: and the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just.

The bible says it; that settles it.

Of course, the modern state, by taxing and penalizing hard work, makes that difficult.

Not to mention taxing inheritance - which was one of Marx's blueprints for the establishment of Communism

Daniel Ritchie · #15 (**permalink**) 01-24-2008, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemperFideles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amazing Grace

It is amazing how I can miss something like this at times so simple.

Be encouraged, at least it's not like you're a Galatian and those like them that are missing something even more simple!

Your beginning to sound like Randy.

Semper Fidelis · #16 (**permalink**) 01-24-2008, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spear Dane

Of course, the modern state, by taxing and penalizing hard work, makes that difficult.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Ritchie

Not to mention taxing inheritance - which was one of Marx's blueprints for the establishment of Communism

Stick to the purpose of the thread. There's more to this than whining about taxes. In fact, there's nothing in the WLC Q&A that complains about the State so let's stay on topic.

Semper Fidelis · #17 (**permalink**) 01-24-2008, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Ritchie

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemperFideles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amazing Grace

It is amazing how I can miss something like this at times so simple.

Be encouraged, at least it's not like you're a Galatian and those like them that are missing something even more simple!

Your beginning to sound like Randy.

Yeah, because Scripture imitates Randy in using such terms.