But God haas not allowed His character (the Law) to be based on subjective "discernment" by fallen creatures who don't know better, or beleive they have "heard from God". He bases it (and everything else we do) on His spoken word already written down.

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C. Matthew McMahon, Ph.D.
John 5:39, "...search the Scriptures..."

Portal Site - Dr. C. Matthew McMahon.com
www.apuritansmind.com and www.puritanpublications.com
Scholar in Residence at Christ Presbyterian Church, Professor at WTS for Puritan History & Theology.

Life Maxim: Everyone seems normal until you get to know them.
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Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Matt - does my earlier statement not align with your thought?

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-JD
1Thess5:21
Ordained Deacon, PCA
Serving in the SBC
MS

Team blog: ChristianSkepticism.org | Personal:...a Longmire rambles | facebook

Daniel it looks like you going to keep me reading. I have not finished your previous book and you are ready to issue another one!

I am never happy to use terms like "tax locusts." I have been paying income tax for over 40 years and I do not see it as a burden. I have never been in the higher rate of taxation so I have not had to pay at 90% or even 40% but if I did I would be earning over £40,000 a year taxable at the lower rate. I think I could still tithe. The Lord richly provides for all our needs and we have never been short of money because we tithe.

Let me know when the next book is available.

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David Porter
Presbyterian Church in Ireland
Minister of Second Dromara Presbyterian Church
Dromara, County Down, Northern Ireland

I tithe in the middle of the month, but I set it aside at the beginning (I'm paid once at the end of each month). Habit, I guess.

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Hunter
Trinity Presbyterian Church (PCA)
Charlottesville, VA

kenotic.net | last.fm

Bottom line is that income tax (and property tax) are not Biblical ideas and they clash with the truly Biblical idea of tithing. Therefore, tithing in an income tax world is made problematic, but not impossible.

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I am not discouraging you from giving the extra-money, but I would say that 10% of your gross income includes a free-will offering and the tithe can only be on your net increase. Moreover, if the state taxes a ministers income, is that not Erastianism? And is the state not stealing your congregation's tithe money, and thus stealing directly from God? You see, I only believe in a head-tax, not a graduated income tax, thus I like to call the latter the tax-locusts (in modern speak that would be the Inland Revenue). The next book will be out within the next six weeks are so.

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

Mr. Porter being from a poverty-stricken place like Dromara you get away with (comparatively) low tax, people from an opulent society like Saintfield (where being a millionaire is the equivalent of a pauper) cannot relate to such a scenario.

Daniel, beware my dear brother you cannot serve God and mamon! Why not sell everything, give to the poor (in Dromara) and follow Christ. I think that is what Jesus would say to rich young man like you!!!!

We must get together soon,

Every blessing,

Saintfield is full of Job's - men blessed with great riches - the poor in Dromara are undeserving.

The law of God cannot be equated with His character in such a simple manner, in as much as God's character includes attributes such as wisdom and grace that, strictly speaking, cannot be categorized as an element of law. We can, however, take a gift of God's Holy Spirit (such as wisdom), and by looking at kingdom needs, family needs, projected and real levels of income, and the like, make decisions regarding our giving. Wisdom will include a study of things in Scripture, but it is more than that as well. I think that what was meant by the word discernment above, would be co-equal with that of wisdom.

Imo, and that of other Reformed ministers besides, the tithing laws of the Old Covenant were ceremonial and social, and passed with the theocratic government of Israel. New Covenant giving is to be accomplished, as Paul writes, w/o compulsion, and from the joy of a redeemed heart. The OC tithing laws are not set forth as a standard of giving in any NT writing, and (as one of my OT profs pointed out) nobody who holds to tithing today really gives according to the larger OC system of tithing, which would be around 30% total of one's income when all put together.

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Adam J. Myer
Back to looking for a call...
Evergreen PCA
Salem, Oregon

Wow, I always thought tithing was still "required".

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~etexas~

Wait, I can hear it in the distance - the steady cry:

antinomian! antinomian! antinomian!



(BTW - I know folks are passionate about this...not trying to be disrespectful.)

And to think.....I only started this thread to see when people gave, you know how threads are sometimes you get 2 posts and then you post one that you do not think will generate any intrest and BOOM!

Wow, I don't remember him asking me... Actually, as I pointed out earlier, tithing is not the same thing as 'giving' in the mind of a tither.

Also, %30 is not totally accurate as one tithe (the Festival tithe) was to be used on one's own family, eating and drinking before the Lord. Also, the Poor tithe was collected only 1 year out of 3 was it not?

So now I am just confused are we supposed to tithe or not?

Here is a question: why do Christians have such a problem tithing to God, when they pay much more than a tithe (40-60% of their money) to Caesar?

Does not Abraham's tithing to Melchizedek prove that tithing was not just for Israel?

When I was an Anglican my Priest used that as "type" of tithing. That is why I thought it was a perpetual thing.