What is man's duty toward animals? Scripture seems to place their worth (probably not the best word) below that of man but above other created things, but it is hard for me to see an overall ethic from what we are given (animals are to rest on the Sabbath, don't muzzle the ox, animals are given for food, etc.).

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Scott Roper
Member, Redeemer Presbyterian Church (PCA): "A bunch of hippie Calvinists"
Winston-Salem, NC

You either pet them, work them or eat them or exterminate them from ruining crops and livestock.
Good stewardship means not over killing food supply populations or animals that are valuable resources and eco-changers.

But my are so many absolutely delicious.

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Travis Speegle
Redeemer Presbyterian, PCA (Waco, Tx)
Pacific Cross Roads, PCA (Los Angeles, CA)


"When it comes to trustworthy theologians one can usually honor the rule of thumb that the deader the better."-Dr. John Hannah, DTS (of all places)

Megan and I have "livestock" a Bichon Frisse and a Torti cat. Mostly they want to be loved and fed, not always in that order!

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~etexas~

Remember when Adam named the animals? Adam was naming them for fun or for God to see what he would come up with. Adam was showing his dominion over the creatures by naming them. Naming equals authority over. God did this many times in the Scriptures: Abram to Abraham; Cephas to Peter; Saul to Paul- the lists goes on.

Our view of animals should be one of dominion, and with an understanding that different animals have different purposes. As said above: pet em, work em, eat em, etc.

We also need to have a 'theology of life' surrounding the animal kingdom. See the Westminster Larger Catechism on thou shalt not kill. Animals are not to be killed for arbitrary purposes (sport hunting, etc). All life is precious and we need to preserve life when we can... this even means taking the spider out of doors in my house (unless my wife gets to him before me!)

-Nate

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Nathan Eshelman
Grand Rapids, MI
First Reformed Presbyterian Church

PRESBYTERIAN THOUGHTS

First Reformed Presbyterian Church

Are you saying that killing insects in one's home is a violation of the 7th commandment?

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Davidius
Husband of Emilia
Member: First Reformed Presbyterian Church of Durham (RPCNA) - Durham, NC
Currently in the process of transferring membership to an as-yet-undecided church in Chapel Hill
Student: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, German Literature and Classics

I am saying that we should be a people that preserve life, not destroy it. All things were created for His glory!

I would not put a spider crusher under discipline and I am not saying that it is necessarily a violation of the command. But we should still be a people of life!

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Nathan Eshelman
Grand Rapids, MI
First Reformed Presbyterian Church

PRESBYTERIAN THOUGHTS

First Reformed Presbyterian Church

I find this funny because I discussed this with someone the other day and I posted these verses below.

But Spiders are dead flat things shortly after I see them. They are not my beasts.

(Pro 12:10) A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.

Deu 22:6) If a bird's nest chance to be before thee in the way in any tree, or on the ground, whether they be young ones, or eggs, and the dam sitting upon the young, or upon the eggs, thou shalt not take the dam with the young:
(Deu 22:7) But thou shalt in any wise let the dam go, and take the young to thee; that it may be well with thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days.

God is even concerned about cattle.

(Jon 4:11) And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?

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(Norseman Moderator)

R. Martin Snyder
1689er
Harmony Baptist Church (Member)
PuritanCovenanter MSN Blog
PuritanCovenanter's MySpace Page

"Our object should not be to have scripture on our side but to be on the side of scripture; and however dear any sentiment may have become by being long entertained, so soon as it is seen to be contrary to the Bible, we must be prepared to abandon it without hesitation."
William Symington

Click to get:Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Living in the South, what about if I find a rattlesnake or copperhead on my property? If I feel that snake puts my family in danger if I didn't kill it, would I not be obligated to do so?

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Ryan Barnhart - Pastor of OGBC
Husband to a beautiful wife, Father to two beautiful girls
"But by the grace of God I am what I am." I Corinthians 15:10

"I confess to you, that if I can but live and die serving the Lord Jesus, it will make no difference to me whether I am eaten by Cannibals or by worms. And in the Great Day my Resurrection body will rise as fair as yours in the likeness of our risen Redeemer." - John Paton

Do what we Americans always do: launch a preemptive strike!

Sorry, I forgot that this isn't the Politics forum.

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Davidius
Husband of Emilia
Member: First Reformed Presbyterian Church of Durham (RPCNA) - Durham, NC
Currently in the process of transferring membership to an as-yet-undecided church in Chapel Hill
Student: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, German Literature and Classics

I'm with Indiana Jones on this one. "Snakes, why does it have to be snakes?"

I'm a contracted water meter reader and it's been so unseasonably warm the last few days here in TN that the snakes are actually back out in the meter boxes. Nothing like flipping that lid and seeing a couple of snakes sitting down in the box.

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Ryan Barnhart - Pastor of OGBC
Husband to a beautiful wife, Father to two beautiful girls
"But by the grace of God I am what I am." I Corinthians 15:10

"I confess to you, that if I can but live and die serving the Lord Jesus, it will make no difference to me whether I am eaten by Cannibals or by worms. And in the Great Day my Resurrection body will rise as fair as yours in the likeness of our risen Redeemer." - John Paton

I guess I could always call Tom Bombadil or Spear Dane to bring their shotguns over and take care of it for me.

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Ryan Barnhart - Pastor of OGBC
Husband to a beautiful wife, Father to two beautiful girls
"But by the grace of God I am what I am." I Corinthians 15:10

"I confess to you, that if I can but live and die serving the Lord Jesus, it will make no difference to me whether I am eaten by Cannibals or by worms. And in the Great Day my Resurrection body will rise as fair as yours in the likeness of our risen Redeemer." - John Paton

Good question.

I think our duty is dominion. Dominion calls for various responses, depending on the circumstance.

I serve on a number of boards relating to foresty & agriculture here in NB. In one of those capacities I am VP of our local Farmers Market Co-Op. Our Co-Op operates a Sat. market for approx 100 vendors.

Several months ago I was standing in the booth of one of our vendors. He and his father actually make a living selling hogs & chickens at local markets. If you follow the ins & outs of the "agri-biz" you know how hard that is.

A woman walked by his booth. He spoke up ( as he always did. As I said he does make a living at this!) and gave her his pitch. "No Hormone, No Drugs; All Natural Meat!" The woman gave him a "look" & said "I am A Vegeterian!" Without batting an eye he said, "So were my Hogs...Until Thursday!"

So often we desire to "reform" some failure of our modern world. Such as animal treatment in factory farms, or "factory meat" production. So we begin to turn to alternatives, such as "certified" organic foods.

I belive that our "duty" is to treat all creatures that draw breath in a maner suited to the particulare animals role. This is the hard part. My Korean brothers are convinced that the proper role of a standard poodle is lunch. I think he is meant to be something more.

This is the hard part. What is cultural & what is ethical.

When my friend responded to the "vegitarian" I cheered. I cheered becuase I agreed with him, Was my agreement cultural or ethical? That is the hard part.

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Kevin Rogers
Sovereign Community Church, PCA
Moncton NB

Crush his head!

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Patrick
OPC
MDiv, RTS Jackson.

"He does well, that discourses of Christ; but he does infinitely better, that by experimental knowledge, feeds and lives on Christ." Thomas Brooks.

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Richard H. King
Providence PCA
Lubbock, Texas
"No matter how far a man goes, he eventually finds out God's already there." John Wayne - the last line in "Chisum"

Nice one Is there then a difference between beasts - who we use for productive labour - and pests such as rodents, spiders etc. If so, how do we differentiate Scripturally.

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

Exd 34:26 The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk

Lev 22:27 When a bullock, or a sheep, or a goat, is brought forth, then it shall be seven days under the dam; and from the eighth day and thenceforth it shall be accepted for an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
Lev 22:28 And [whether it be] cow or ewe, ye shall not kill it and her young both in one day.

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1689 Baptist Confession

Psa 55:16 As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me.
Psa 55:17 Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice.
James Farley, Wilderness Road Baptist Assembly.
Husband of Melissa and father of Ann.
www.wildernessroadbaptist.org

Well, as for me, this is what I would do, in this exact order.....

...... .....

Unfortunately, there isn't an icon for cooking.

I would like to say that this discussion could also go into dietary laws. Which reminds me of MJs (no... not michael jacksons... Messianic Jews.).

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Andrew Cunningham
Casa Grande, AZ
Attending:Grace Covenant Church, ARBCA
Cross Centered Life

But I love to eat all sorts of meat, I'll def. kill a rat (although, don't like too, but you have too, cuz they will ruin your life, and mosquitoes and flies carry disease, so kill away....but, the spider destroys the flies, and the snake eats the rats, so them, I try to relocate whenever possible.

I think this is a great thread...we should be pro-life where possible.

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WWW.SURFWRITERS.BLOGSPOT.COM
Trevor
Christian/Husband/Father/Writer/Teacher--
--In that order.
Bethany Church, Sierra Madre, CA.
God is my King
"You've got to accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative, latch on to the affirmitive, and don't mess with Mr. in-between." Tony Bennett.

I am pro-"torture" towards rabbits if we can test medicines on them. Animal testing is a legitimate use of the animal kingdom.

Also, if we planned to exterminate all poisonous snakes, I might support that - though I am sure we would then probably create larger problems with rat plagues are something (which we could then ship in safe snakes to replace the poisonous snakes, and probably over-correct and cause another ecological problem)

But I also like many environmental groups and want to save the animals when possible.

I do agree that it is very Christian not to litter, to take care of the environment, preserve the ecosystem, recycle and all that "Green Stuff" Amen to Green Christians!

HUnting for food, too, is largely unneeded in our day in the USA. But, it seems still the best way to limit the deer population to keep down the deer to car grill ratio.

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Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone