This is not to be a theonomy thread. Let that be the only time the T-word is mentioned. I have no dog in the hunt, and this question should be equally challenging to non-T'ers.

While I affirm the Westminster tri-furcation of the Law, I confess that in my own personal study, I can't make some categories "stick." For example,

Markus Brockmuehl writes,
Jewish Law in Gentile Churches: Halakah and the Beginning of Christian Public Ethics, 149n14

While I think he goes too far, he is on to something. What about nocturnal emissions: civil or ceremonial? How do you tell? Or intercourse with a woman during her period: civil, moral, or ceremonial--how do you tell?

Tripping the blind?, etc.

If we determine that a law is “typological,” then are we free to dismiss it when thinking through ethical questions? Do the sacrificial laws, for instance, have nothing to teach us about ethics or politics? Jacob Milgrom, the Jewish scholar who is the universally recognized dean of Levitical studies, would certainly differ.

To his credit Joe Morecraft tries to answer this question.
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninf...SID=1505203736

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J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

I'll take a crack at some of them;
Gleaning & bird's nest - civil
nocturnal emission & woman's period - ceremonial
Tripping the blind - moral

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The man who is disposed to think of his sin as a great calamity, rather than as a heinous crime, is not likely either to reverence God or to respect His law. - John Kennedy, 1873
Meg
Blog
Member, Intown Presbyterian Church,PCA, Portland, OR

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

How would not having intercourse during menstrual cycles be a ceremonial law?

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Benjamin P. Glaser
Pittsburgh, PA
Fairmount ARP Church, Sewickley, PA
Candidate Under Care Pittsburgh Theological Seminary & Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary

“If the Church could be aroused to a deeper sense of the glory that awaits her, she would enter with a warmer spirit into the struggles that are before her.”-- J.H. Thornwell

Because the woman was considered ritually "unclean" during this time and was supposed to be in separate living quarters until it was over and for a little while after if I recall correctly. Intercourse with her would make the man "unclean" for a while and neither party would be able to go to worship until they became "clean" again.

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The man who is disposed to think of his sin as a great calamity, rather than as a heinous crime, is not likely either to reverence God or to respect His law. - John Kennedy, 1873
Meg
Blog
Member, Intown Presbyterian Church,PCA, Portland, OR

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Anyone familiar with ecology will know that the survivability of eggs and chicks of game birds are very low, while the life expectancy of the adult female is high. If she lays a dozen eggs, only 1 may reach adulthood. So if a person is allowed to take chicks or eggs the female can lay another batch, whereas if a person takes the adult, during a period when she's unusually defenceless it can drastically reduce the population of game birds.

This law is one of game management. It insures that there will be game animals for future generations, which is part of our job as stewards, so there must be a moral component.

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Tim Vaughan, 48 years old, member Redeemer OPC, Santa Maria CA.

Resolving one complication would help. It is a pity that the WCF did not explicitly limit the subcategory "civil laws" to laws that have specific punishments enforceable by the Israelite community attached. Doing so would move many laws into a new category (call it personal ethics for now), which are sins but not crimes. These would remain sins and not crimes today. Taking from a birds nest has been shown elsewere on this thread to be a general equity application of good stewardship of the earth. It thus remains valid today.

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In Christ's love and service

Mr. Tim Cunningham, Dip. CS (Regent College)
Member, First Baptist Church
Vancouver, BC

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"The Reformation was a time when men went blind, staggering drunk because they had discovered, in the dusty basement of late medievalism, a whole cellar of 1500-year-old, 200 proof grace—a bottle after bottle of pure distillate of Scripture, one sip of which would convince anyone that God saves us single-handedly. The word of the gospel—after all these centuries of trying to lift yourself into heaven by worrying about the perfection of your own bootstraps—suddenly turned out to be a flat announcement that the saved were home-free before they started. Grace was to be drunk neat: no water, no ice, and certainly no ginger ale." – Robert Farrar Capon

Excellent question Jacob. Do you or anyone know when the 'tri-furcation' of Law was first mentioned?

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N. Robert; Trinity Reformed Church RCA, Holland MI

Once in a while you can get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right."

I don't know if Aquinas was the first, but his treatment of the threefold division of law between moral, judicial and ceremonial (Summa Theologica, Prima Secundae Partis, Treatise on Law) contributed substantially to the historically Reformed paradigm that is reflected in the WCF and elsewhere.

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Andrew Myers
Husband of Jessica, Father of Jackson, Katie and Samuel
Member, Presbyterian Reformed Church of Northern Virginia
Warrenton, VA USA
Editor, The Matthew Poole Project

"Let your Morning Thoughts, and your last Evening Thoughts, be what shall become of you to all Eternity." -- Matthew Poole

I should probably know this answer, but I don't. Does a three old division of the law necessitate that each law fit into only one catagory?

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Jon Peters
Member, Reformation Fellowship (OPC) (Roseville, CA)
Folsom, CA

i was told they did. but then i also found some intresting ones

we all like to swear up and down that the kosher laws were "ceremonial"

but yet for some reason, some thousands of years after they were giving- a Kosher diet is still according to some medical folk the healthiest diet around.

sometimes i wonder = didnt God know what he was doing when He gave the diet laws? man has a history of seeking to throw God off at every corner. How do we know, that kosher isnt another attempt?

the laws against eating blood should of more than easily taken care of any concerns about pork and trechonosis or whatever. just like the poop laws should mean that their ground water/wells/ rivers should be safe to drink without that ohh so evil alcohol

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Jeff Rod
Eastwood Presbyterian Church PCA
member.
webpage: myspace.com/reformationforever

To live a simple, peaceable life before God
To owe as little as possible, to few as possible.

I heard that Tertullian held to it.

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J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

Another one:

We commonly say that the prohibition of eating blood in Leviticus is a ceremonial law, but that was applied to the New Testament gentile church directly, even though Gentiles were allowed to eat blood in the older covenant.

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J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

Interesting.

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Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

Theon**y

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Andrew DeShazo, Deacon, Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church, Memphis, TN
"All of us stumble in many ways, but if anyone is never at fault in what he says, then he is mature, able to control his whole body."(James 3:2)

Gentiles as in God fearers could eat blood? or Gentiles as in lets play molech?


If I remeber correctly at several points, God says these rules are for you and the strangers living among you- strangers=gentiles? Unless those verses apply directly and explicitly to the Laws they precede or follow than It seems to me that blood laws applied to Gentile (the God fearing sort).

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Jeff Rod
Eastwood Presbyterian Church PCA
member.
webpage: myspace.com/reformationforever

To live a simple, peaceable life before God
To owe as little as possible, to few as possible.

The Spirit of the Reformation Study Bible's note says that this was prohibited simply to avoid offending Jewish Christians.

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Chris
OPC member
Now attending Grace Community Baptist Church
Mandeville, LA

"Faith alone saves, but it is a faith that works." - S. Lewis Johnson

Doesn't the Sabbath command fit into all three divisions?

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Bryan Riddle
1689 London Baptist Confession
Bethel Baptist Church Owasso, Oklahoma

Actually the prohibition against eating blood predates the racial divide between Jews and Gentiles, as you can see from Gen 9:4:

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Tim Vaughan, 48 years old, member Redeemer OPC, Santa Maria CA.

I want to chime in on the gleaning laws. I believe they are a part of the Moral law. Jesus said the law is summed up in the two great commandments. Loving your neighbor as yourself is definitely moral. And helping the poor is a part of that. It is positive law in that reguard.

And for some reason, I can't make a strong argument for this, I would make the blood thing part of the moral law also. Especially since the life of the animal or anything is in the blood. It is a respect for life issue maybe. Just thinking off of the top of my head. But I can't make a good connection between the ten words or the Two commandments.

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R. Martin Snyder
1689er
Harmony Baptist Church (Member)
PuritanCovenanter MSN Blog
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"Our object should not be to have scripture on our side but to be on the side of scripture; and however dear any sentiment may have become by being long entertained, so soon as it is seen to be contrary to the Bible, we must be prepared to abandon it without hesitation."
William Symington

Click to get:Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Yes, when Christ harvested and ate grain (Matt. 12)

He and the Disciples were taking advantage of gleaning laws. The Sabbath issue was separate; even the Pharisees didn't question their right under normal circumstances. So I agree with you a hundred percent.

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Tim Vaughan, 48 years old, member Redeemer OPC, Santa Maria CA.

It was first mentioned by Moses in Exodus 20-40. The giving of the law demonstrates the threefold distinction. The ten words were spoken by God Himself, chap. 20, with absolute terms of reference and open application. Then follows certain "judgments," 21:1-23:33, which take the form of conditional statements and are often restricted to "He