Split thread on Appropriateness of Tithing

[BaptistCanuk]

The whole tithing issue is crazy. I don't hold to it myself. We don't have a temple today and the sacrificial system is extinct (which tithing was a part of).

Also it would be confusing to have the tithing system. Do you tithe off your gross or net pay? Do you tithe with money at all or do you use your livestock? And wasn't tithing a sort of "Jewish governmental tax" system as well? Today our government is not a theocracy and we already pay our taxes to them. This is the tithing system>>>

The New Testament, however, teaches giving with a cheerful heart as you are able to.

[Edited on 5-3-2006 by BaptistCanuk]

[fivepointcalvinist]

Originally posted by BaptistCanuk
The whole tithing issue is crazy. I don't hold to it myself. We don't have a temple today and the sacrificial system is extinct (which tithing was a part of).

Also it would be confusing to have the tithing system. Do you tithe off your gross or net pay? Do you tithe with money at all or do you use your livestock? And wasn't tithing a sort of "Jewish governmental tax" system as well? Today our government is not a theocracy and we already pay our taxes to them. This is the tithing system>>>

The New Testament, however, teaches giving with a cheerful heart as you are able to.

[Edited on 5-3-2006 by BaptistCanuk]

brian i agree. tithing today is not obligatory for the new testament christian. tithing is considered compulsorary which paul tells us our giving should not be....

2 cor 9:7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

[Contra_Mundum]

Brian,
Saying "the whole tithing issue is crazy" is itself a pretty extreme position, don't you think? Brilliant, devoted, godly men have differed on the issue. Since apparently you've never read a scriptural defense of the practice, you might want to moderate your criticism. All of the questions you raise are matters that some writer or other has touched on.

I questioned my belief on the matter and changed it to one that is similar to yours. But clearly it isn't the same as yours, because I hold to mine as having been persuaded by Scriptural argumentation, one that runs for several densely packed pages. You hold yours apparently on the basis of a single verse, coupled with a theological position that renders irrelevant virtually the entire Old Testament.

Most folks who hold to the validity of the tithe point to the fact that the tithe predates the Mosaic Law. Therefore, your criticism of the tithe as "part of the Temple system" is completely off base.

[Edited on 5-3-2006 by Contra_Mundum]

[BaptistCanuk]

Well thank you for putting me in my place Bruce. I will write 100 times that I should not use hyperbolic exaggeration, and while I'm at it, I will not share my opinion.

[BaptistCanuk]

As for the tithe predating the Mosaic Law, I'd like to see where that is. Just because Abraham offered a tithe because he wanted to does not mean it was law. And even if it were, that does not negate that we are in the New Covenant (of grace) and the standard today is to give with a cheerful heart.

I have stepped off my soap box now.

[gwine]

Well, there is a comment in the N.T. by the Author:

Mat 23:23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.

But this comment was made before Christ was crucified, and so might not be a valid point in favor. I'll stay in the theological wading pool and learn from you elders.

[BobVigneault]

Originally posted by BaptistCanuk
Well thank you for putting me in my place Bruce. I will write 100 times that I should not use hyperbolic exaggeration, and while I'm at it, I will not share my opinion.

GOOD! Do what Pastor Bruce said, do some reading in the scriptures and do some study of the great minds then come back and share your INFORMED position. Not interested in your opinions. Opinions are like arm pits, eveyone has a couple and they both stink!

Cheers!

[BaptistCanuk]

Originally posted by BobVigneault

GOOD! Do what Pastor Bruce said, do some reading in the scriptures and do some study of the great minds then come back and share your INFORMED position. Not interested in your opinions. Opinions are like arm pits, eveyone has a couple and they both stink!

Cheers!

This was uncalled for. And nothing more than YOUR opinion, which "I" am not interested in. Maybe you should "slow down".

Um...if my position is correct does it MATTER how I came to it? I don't need the "great minds" of the past. I appreciate them, but I have a mind of my own too...as evidenced by the fact that the questions I have asked were all asked in the past by other great minds. Not impressed with your post at all and if that's how you are going to conduct yourself then please refrain from ever telling me to "slow down". Thank you...and Cheers!

[Edited on 5-3-2006 by BaptistCanuk]

[gwine]

Originally posted by BaptistCanuk
Um...if my position is correct does it MATTER how I came to it?

Actually, I would say yes. The Bible says to always be ready to give an answer for the hope that is in you, and IMHO that should apply to every thought that we have.

If you come to a correct conclusion about something but you used faulty reasoning to do so then the next time you use the same reasoning it is not correct, you would be in a pickle.

Wish I could elaborate, but I'm off to lunch and . . .

[Contra_Mundum]

Originally posted by BaptistCanuk
Well thank you for putting me in my place Bruce. I will write 100 times that I should not use hyperbolic exaggeration, and while I'm at it, I will not share my opinion.

Brian,
Maybe I should respond to your criticism the same way you have to mine, with sarcasm and zero interaction with what you actually wrote? No. If you go back and read my 1st paragraph, I don't think you are going to find that I assumed anything, just responded to what you actually wrote. Earlier you wrote that my previous opinion, and presently held by quite a number of people (many of them baptists) is the product of a disturbed mind, or just plain irrational. Or did you mean something entirely different by "crazy"? If now you want to qualify your comment as hyperbole that's fine too. I guess we must agree that on the face of it, the comment was pretty extreme. Hmmm.

Chiming in with your opinion can be done in any number of different manners. It's up to you to pick one that's appropriate, or one that will, or will not, provoke a certain kind of response, depending on your desire. If you post your critical opinion, especially if you post it in a thread where the purpose is to ask for information (and you give no information, just pop off with a negative evaluation of those who have a contrary stance to yours), you leave the impression that perhaps the whole discussion is a waste of time, in your opinion.

Thanks for your opinion. As its central raison d'etre, the Puritan Board does not exist as a forum simply for selling opinions, but as a select marketplace of ideas. We are selling the best opinions, and that involves both discrimination and criticism. Your product is a combination of your skill, the materials you use, and your marketing ability. If someone offers that you might want to work on one, two, or all three of those, you can respond however you please.

My comments were meant to stimulate you to reflect, not only on the subject but also on your manner. Clearly whatever reflection you've done on the latter has resulted only in confirming your preference for an abrasive style. Suit yourself. At this point, you've got little room to complain about almost anyone's response.

As for reflecting on the subject, if you ever want those opinions to count you need to understand what you disagree with, and its no exageration to say that you don't. If you hold to an entire, definable, dogmatic position that rests upon one single verse of Scripture--a tertiary branch of ecclesiology, but one for which you are willing to lay down the epithet "crazy" on those who disagree with it (whether it's hyperbole or not)--then you can expect someone to urge you to think a little deeper.

If no one is reacting, then folks are already tuning you out. No one cares at that point. You can pout, and threaten to sulk with your unexpressed opinions all you like. Or you can keep putting them out there. And no one is going to talk back. You are going to be ignored. If you consider it arrogant or offensive to let you know this, then I guess Lev. 19:7 is also irrelevant. Or Prov. 27:6, but they're both OT...

Take the advice. It was given in a spirit of charity. Until you do, your post count is going to continue heading up, while your credibility is heads down.


For all the crazies,

[caddy]

Exquistely communicated I must say !

Impressive



quote]Originally posted by Contra_Mundum

Originally posted by BaptistCanuk
Well thank you for putting me in my place Bruce. I will write 100 times that I should not use hyperbolic exaggeration, and while I'm at it, I will not share my opinion.

Brian,
Maybe I should respond to your criticism the same way you have to mine, with sarcasm and zero interaction with what you actually wrote? No. If you go back and read my 1st paragraph, I don't think you are going to find that I assumed anything, just responded to what you actually wrote. Earlier you wrote that my previous opinion, and presently held by quite a number of people (many of them baptists) is the product of a disturbed mind, or just plain irrational. Or did you mean something entirely different by "crazy"? If now you want to qualify your comment as hyperbole that's fine too. I guess we must agree that on the face of it, the comment was pretty extreme. Hmmm.

Chiming in with your opinion can be done in any number of different manners. It's up to you to pick one that's appropriate, or one that will, or will not, provoke a certain kind of response, depending on your desire. If you post your critical opinion, especially if you post it in a thread where the purpose is to ask for information (and you give no information, just pop off with a negative evaluation of those who have a contrary stance to yours), you leave the impression that perhaps the whole discussion is a waste of time, in your opinion.

Thanks for your opinion. As its central raison d'etre, the Puritan Board does not exist as a forum simply for selling opinions, but as a select marketplace of ideas. We are selling the best opinions, and that involves both discrimination and criticism. Your product is a combination of your skill, the materials you use, and your marketing ability. If someone offers that you might want to work on one, two, or all three of those, you can respond however you please.

My comments were meant to stimulate you to reflect, not only on the subject but also on your manner. Clearly whatever reflection you've done on the latter has resulted only in confirming your preference for an abrasive style. Suit yourself. At this point, you've got little room to complain about almost anyone's response.

As for reflecting on the subject, if you ever want those opinions to count you need to understand what you disagree with, and its no exageration to say that you don't. If you hold to an entire, definable, dogmatic position that rests upon one single verse of Scripture--a tertiary branch of ecclesiology, but one for which you are willing to lay down the epithet "crazy" on those who disagree with it (whether it's hyperbole or not)--then you can expect someone to urge you to think a little deeper.

If no one is reacting, then folks are already tuning you out. No one cares at that point. You can pout, and threaten to sulk with your unexpressed opinions all you like. Or you can keep putting them out there. And no one is going to talk back. You are going to be ignored. If you consider it arrogant or offensive to let you know this, then I guess Lev. 19:7 is also irrelevant. Or Prov. 27:6, but they're both OT...

Take the advice. It was given in a spirit of charity. Until you do, your post count is going to continue heading up, while your credibility is heads down.


For all the crazies, [/quote]

[BaptistCanuk]

Originally posted by Contra_Mundum

Brian,
Maybe I should respond to your criticism the same way you have to mine, with sarcasm and zero interaction with what you actually wrote? No. If you go back and read my 1st paragraph, I don't think you are going to find that I assumed anything, just responded to what you actually wrote. Earlier you wrote that my previous opinion, and presently held by quite a number of people (many of them baptists) is the product of a disturbed mind, or just plain irrational. Or did you mean something entirely different by "crazy"? If now you want to qualify your comment as hyperbole that's fine too. I guess we must agree that on the face of it, the comment was pretty extreme. Hmmm.

What do you mean "respond"? You were sarcastic with me in your original post. Hence the reaction that I gave. Do I have to show you where you were sarcastic and offensive to me or have you taken the time to figure it out yourself and realize that you offended me? When did I say anything was the product of a disturbed mind? Oh wait....you're using hyperbole as well. But it's ok for YOU?

Chiming in with your opinion can be done in any number of different manners. It's up to you to pick one that's appropriate, or one that will, or will not, provoke a certain kind of response, depending on your desire. If you post your critical opinion, especially if you post it in a thread where the purpose is to ask for information (and you give no information, just pop off with a negative evaluation of those who have a contrary stance to yours), you leave the impression that perhaps the whole discussion is a waste of time, in your opinion.

Yeah and you left the impression that you are better than me and that you couldn't understand a tiny bit of hyperbole. I'm sorry. I thought I was discussing this with people that would have found it OBVIOUS.

Thanks for your opinion. As its central raison d'etre, the Puritan Board does not exist as a forum simply for selling opinions, but as a select marketplace of ideas. We are selling the best opinions, and that involves both discrimination and criticism. Your product is a combination of your skill, the materials you use, and your marketing ability. If someone offers that you might want to work on one, two, or all three of those, you can respond however you please.

Don't patronize me.

My comments were meant to stimulate you to reflect, not only on the subject but also on your manner. Clearly whatever reflection you've done on the latter has resulted only in confirming your preference for an abrasive style. Suit yourself. At this point, you've got little room to complain about almost anyone's response.

Well my comment was meant for you to reflect on YOUR manner. Your post (and subsequently Bob's) was offensive to me. Do not presume to tell me that I prefer an "abrasive" style. If you had been a little more careful in what you said I would not have been "abrasive". I will absolutely, in no way whatsoever, accept sole responsibility here. Not a chance. And yes, I do have room to complain about anyone's response. I thought I was participating in a discussion, only to see your "helpful" post in response to me.

As for reflecting on the subject, if you ever want those opinions to count you need to understand what you disagree with, and its no exageration to say that you don't. If you hold to an entire, definable, dogmatic position that rests upon one single verse of Scripture--a tertiary branch of ecclesiology, but one for which you are willing to lay down the epithet "crazy" on those who disagree with it (whether it's hyperbole or not)--then you can expect someone to urge you to think a little deeper.

You "think" it's no exaggeration to say that I don't. Thank you for declaring the "truth" about me. My position doesn't rest on one single verse of Scripture (unlike the pro-tithe people). It rests on the whole New Testament. From now on I will assume that nobody on here has a sense of humour whatsoever, nor the capacity to comprehend a little bit of hyperbole.

If no one is reacting, then folks are already tuning you out. No one cares at that point. You can pout, and threaten to sulk with your unexpressed opinions all you like. Or you can keep putting them out there. And no one is going to talk back. You are going to be ignored. If you consider it arrogant or offensive to let you know this, then I guess Lev. 19:7 is also irrelevant. Or Prov. 27:6, but they're both OT...

So...people will ignore me because they disagree with me? That's real Christian.

Take the advice. It was given in a spirit of charity. Until you do, your post count is going to continue heading up, while your credibility is heads down.

I could take the advice. I never said I wouldn't. However, I highly doubt it was given in the spirit of charity and I'm insulted that you would actually think that I am stupid enough to believe that. Thank you for attacking my credibility as well. It is apparent that I am not wanted here. I wonder why yours and Bob's credibility is just peachy, considering the way you both talked to me. You'd better believe I am absolutely angry over this whole thing.


For all the crazies,

Speak for yourself. I can be sarcastic too, see.

[BaptistCanuk]

Yes caddy, you would give a thumbs up to someone who was being absolutely rude wouldn't you? I'd give you a cookie but I won't.




{Moderator Edit}
Thread sidetracked, split, and ended, in irrelevance.
Brian, these posts are their own witness.
For the Moderators,

[Edited on 5-3-2006 by Contra_Mundum]