Sabbath-breaking

Ivan · #1 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 09:30 AM

What constitues breaking the sabbath?

1. Going out to eat after church?
2. Going to a movie on Sunday?
3. Doing work around the house on Sunday?
4. Cooking at home on Sunday?
5. Participating in games and sports on Sunday?
6. Watching sports or about anything on TV on Sunday?

I remember a recent discussion about professional athletes playing on Sunday and the shining example of Eric Liddel. However, is our viewing of these same athletes on a Sunday as wrong as their playing on Sunday?

Scott Bushey · #2 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 09:37 AM

WCF

VIII. This Sabbath is then kept holy unto the Lord, when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering of their common affairs beforehand, do not only observe an holy rest, all the day, from their own works, words, and thoughts about their worldly employments and recreations,(o) but also are taken up the whole time in the public and private exercises of His worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy.(p)

My impression: Those things which are 'common" or typical for you should be put aside.

Ivan · #3 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scott Bushey
WCF

VIII. This Sabbath is then kept holy unto the Lord, when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering of their common affairs beforehand, do not only observe an holy rest, all the day, from their own works, words, and thoughts about their worldly employments and recreations,(o) but also are taken up the whole time in the public and private exercises of His worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy.(p)

My impression: Those things which are 'common" or typical for you should be put aside.

Yes, I happened to have read that last night. Of course, not very specific and when the WCF was written the kinds of things that "broke" the Sabbath were a bit different.

So, because it's not typical to watch professional sports during the week (although there is Monday Night Football and some games on Thursday and Saturday), then it's alright for us to watch a football game, even though the Christian players are breaking the Sabbath?

It's okay to eat out, shop, whatever on Sunday?

blhowes · #4 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 09:46 AM

Its a shame that threads like this can't be discussed AFTER the Super Bowl is over (jk)

Ivan · #5 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by blhowes
Its a shame that threads like this can't be discussed AFTER the Super Bowl is over (jk)

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade! I WANT to watch the Super Bowl too!! Although I haven't watch much football, especially recently.

Our church is doing a silly thing, at least I think it is. We are canceling our evening service and having a Souper Bowl. The men make soup and watch the Super Bowl together. Ladies are invited too.

I think that's breaking the Sabbath. I doubt that I will participate in the Souper Bowl, but I do want to watch the Super Bowl!

Scott Bushey · #6 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ivan

Quote:

Originally posted by Scott Bushey
WCF

VIII. This Sabbath is then kept holy unto the Lord, when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering of their common affairs beforehand, do not only observe an holy rest, all the day, from their own works, words, and thoughts about their worldly employments and recreations,(o) but also are taken up the whole time in the public and private exercises of His worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy.(p)

My impression: Those things which are 'common" or typical for you should be put aside.

Yes, I happened to have read that last night. Of course, not very specific and when the WCF was written the kinds of things that "broke" the Sabbath were a bit different.

So, because it's not typical to watch professional sports during the week (although there is Monday Night Football and some games on Thursday and Saturday), then it's alright for us to watch a football game, even though the Christian players are breaking the Sabbath?

It's okay to eat out, shop, whatever on Sunday?

No; things that you would do on other days of the week you should rest from on the sabbath, i.e. if watching sports is a form of entertainment for you; working out, watching sports on tv, shopping (unless needful), eating in restaurants, should be avoided on the Lords day. Cease from those things which are typical or ordinary for you. In other words, those things which you normally do, cease from it for a day.

*Note of interest: Josephus reports that the Essenes would not even move their bowels on the sabbath.

As far as go out to eat; are you encouraging people to break the sabbath by your partaking of that which they offer on the sabbath day?

Ivan · #7 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scott Bushey
*Note of interest: Josephus reports that the Essenes would not even move their bowels on the sabbath.

Yikes! That could make for an interesting Sunday Morning Worship!!

Quote:

As far as go out to eat; are you encouraging people to break the sabbath by your partaking of that which they offer on the sabbath day?

Well, I think so. When we go out to eat we are causing people to work on the Sabbath.

VirginiaHuguenot · #8 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 11:31 AM

Ivan,

You might find this article by the Webmaster profitable: http://www.apuritansmind.com/TheLord...heLordsDay.htm

It has a good bibliography on the subject of Sabbath-keeping and links to several excellent articles. In particular, I would recommend Joey Pipa's The Lord's Day and Walter Chantry's Call the Sabbath a Delight.

I would also recommend study of the Westminster Larger Catechism questions 115-121. It is a very thorough Biblical exposition of the Fourth Commandment. Westminster Confession of Faith chap. XXI is also very good:

Quote:

VII. As it is the law of nature, that, in general, a due proportion of time be set apart for the worship of God; so, in His Word, by a positive, moral, and perpetual commandment binding all men in all ages, He has particularly appointed one day in seven, for a Sabbath, to be kept holy unto him:[34] which, from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, was the last day of the week: and, from the resurrection of Christ, was changed into the first day of the week,[35] which, in Scripture, is called the Lord's Day,[36] and is to be continued to the end of the world, as the Christian Sabbath.[37]

VIII. This Sabbath is to be kept holy unto the Lord when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering of their common affairs beforehand, do not only observe an holy rest all the day from their own works, words, and thoughts about their wordly employments and recreations,[38] but also are taken up the whole time in the public and private exercises of His worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy.[39]

The main thing to remember is that 1) the Fourth Commandment is still binding; and 2) the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Hence, we ought to endeavor to keep the Lord's Day holy, yet remember mercy and necessity, find physical and spiritual rest, and engage in worship and fellowship. In so doing, who can have time for going out to restaurants or watching pro football? Let us be about our Father's business on this day and experience a taste of heaven!

Puritan Sailor · #9 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 11:33 AM

Just an additional note here, it is better to look at the Sabbath from a more positive light than a list of do'd and don'ts. It's a special day of communing, resting, and delighting in our God apart from our normal worldly concerns, and He has specifically provided the day for that purpose . Therefore, have nothing to do, as much as can be managed, with those things which interupt your special communion with God on His special day with us. When you look at it from that angle, it will put things in perspective a little better.

fredtgreco · #10 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by puritansailor
Just an additional note here, it is better to look at the Sabbath from a more positive light than a list of do'd and don'ts. It's a special day of communing, resting, and delighting in our God apart from our normal worldly concerns, and He has specifically provided the day for that purpose . Therefore, have nothing to do, as much as can be managed, with those things which interupt your special communion with God on His special day with us. When you look at it from that angle, it will put things in perspective a little better.

Excellent point Patrick!!

blhowes · #11 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 12:05 PM

Is it wrong to tape the Super Bowl and watch it on Monday?

PuritanBouncer · #12 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by blhowes
Is it wrong to tape the Super Bowl and watch it on Monday?

Intresting! I believe most here will say you are still supporting those athletes working on the Sabbath.

Puritan Sailor · #13 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by blhowes
Is it wrong to tape the Super Bowl and watch it on Monday?

Is it that hard to give up the habit?

BobVigneault · #14 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 12:15 PM

Because I can't resist and I must speak up....

You guys can always come back to the biblical 7th day sabbath. The Super Bowl is never played on a Saturday.

(Writing for the minority)

blhowes · #15 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by puritansailor

Quote:

Originally posted by blhowes
Is it wrong to tape the Super Bowl and watch it on Monday?

Is it that hard to give up the habit?

No, for me its not really a habit watching any of the sports. I typically let the teams battle it out during their respective seasons, maybe catch a game or two here and there, and focus in on the World Series, Super Bowl, etc., at the end of the season.

Cottonball · #16 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 12:32 PM

What a shock, I disagree with you guys

I really think we ought to look to Scripture for the answer to this question. And not just the Commandments. Jesus said that the Sabbath is for our benefit (Mk 2:27). I always sort of took that to mean, "Don't overwork yourself. Take a day off. Even God took a day off." So, relax, but at the same time, you really shouldn't inconvenience yourself.

In my opinion, watching a game is relaxing. So what's wrong with that? The Sabbath is for our benefit. We shouldn't break our backs over it! It seems that Andrew might just possibly agree with me on that one, and he can probably put it more eloquently.

Obviously, I'm not trying to give the final word here. If you guys have a different interpretation of Jesus' teaching, as I'm sure you do, please tell me!

[Edited on 17-1-2005 by Cottonball]

ANT · #17 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 12:37 PM

And .....

This goes for almost any TV show or movie you see @ the theatres if we want to get really picky. Some of the best days for opportunities to shoot the movies and shows are on the weekends. Therefore, we need to understand, when we watch television shows and movies, the people who made these shows possible for our enjoyment probably did a good part of their work on Sundays (and Saturdays - (or the minority.)

We could go on forever excluding the things we ought not be doing. For if we look deep enough, we will find reason to leave things alone.

Ex. - What about different book publishing companies. Who's to say that the book you are reading at the present time wasn't printed under a deadline they had to meet say ... Sunday night, so it would be ready to be shipped to the stores on Moday morning.

And .... How many people enjoy the Sunday paper that someone worked on all the way up until deadline when the delivery man (working) delivered to your house or paper booth Sunday morning.

These are just some thoughts of mine. I think even while striving to obey the 4th commandment, we still break it without knowing for the simple fact that we are not omniscient. There will probably always be things that we do not know went into the making of them.

Let us not strive to be legalistic, but to please the Lord with a sincere heart, being faithful with what He has shown and given us.

Basically what I am saying is relax a little, but still be faithful at the same time.

[Edited on 1-17-2005 by ANT]

blhowes · #18 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fredtgreco

Quote:

Originally posted by puritansailor
Just an additional note here, it is better to look at the Sabbath from a more positive light than a list of do'd and don'ts. It's a special day of communing, resting, and delighting in our God apart from our normal worldly concerns, and He has specifically provided the day for that purpose . Therefore, have nothing to do, as much as can be managed, with those things which interupt your special communion with God on His special day with us. When you look at it from that angle, it will put things in perspective a little better.

Excellent point Patrick!!

Just for the record,

blhowes · #19 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by houseparent

Quote:

Originally posted by blhowes
Is it wrong to tape the Super Bowl and watch it on Monday?

Intresting! I believe most here will say you are still supporting those athletes working on the Sabbath.

Adam,
What do you think?
Bob

Scott Bushey · #20 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 01:17 PM

Heb 4:9 So, then, there remains a sabbath rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he entering into His rest, he himself also rested from his works, as God had rested from His own. LXX-Psa. 95:11; Gen. 2:2
Heb 4:11 Therefore, let us exert ourselves to enter into that rest, that not anyone fall in the same example of disobedience.
Heb 4:12 For the Word of God is living, and powerfully working, and sharper than every two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of both soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge of the thoughts and intentions of the heart;

The sabbath was indeed made for man. God knows what is best for us. The command is to keep the sabbath Holy. This means that there are ways in which one can defile the sabbath. If you have been indeed enlightened to Gods sabbath rest, you will most definately know when you are defiling the day. For instance, grabbing a hammer and some wood to build a fence, no matter how much joy or rest it may bring me (I sit behind a desk all week) would (IMO) defile the Lords day. The NFL does not care about God and His commandments. The point is, we are to seek righteousness. Seek after holiness daily. Everyday belongs to the Lord. The Lords day/sabbath has been specifically drawn out in scripture. It stands alone. There is a point to this all. God commands that we rest from the typical and refresh ourselves totally (as best we can in our still defiled state) under the umbrella of the sabbath day.

PuritanBouncer · #21 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by blhowes

Quote:

Originally posted by houseparent

Quote:

Originally posted by blhowes
Is it wrong to tape the Super Bowl and watch it on Monday?

Intresting! I believe most here will say you are still supporting those athletes working on the Sabbath.

Adam,
What do you think?
Bob

I lean towards believing this myself! But I struggle with it. I love football, always have. I played in high school and could have in college if I hadn't been so stubborn.

I get alot of enjoyment out of NCAA and NFL games.

I am having a hard time seeing it as a sin to partake of NFL football even though I see all the points made here. If I am to give it up it is going to have to a work of the Lord within me to do so.