The righteous considers the cause of the poor...

Puritan Sailor · #1 (**permalink**) 11-30-2007, 01:34 PM

Proverbs 29:7 "The righteous considers the cause of the poor, But the wicked does not understand such knowledge."

How do we apply this today in the modern West?

Blueridge Believer · #2 (**permalink**) 11-30-2007, 02:12 PM

This could be a good thread.

Mic 2:2 And they covet fields, and take [them] by violence; and houses, and take [them] away: so they oppress a man and his house, even a man and his heritage.

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Zec 7:10 And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let none of you imagine evil against his brother in your heart.

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Mal 3:5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in [his] wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger [from his right], and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.

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Jam 2:6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

Joshua · #3 (**permalink**) 11-30-2007, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritan Sailor

Proverbs 29:7 "The righteous considers the cause of the poor, But the wicked does not understand such knowledge."

How do we apply this today in the modern West?

The truth is, Patrick, IMHO, the local church ought to be intent on taking care of the poor as much as they can. Furthermore, offeratory helps are good for the larger extent (i.e. the more distant mission field). For what it's worth, I believe the Church has fallen woefully short of this in the U.S. In fact, the main reason I believe that the State has become as over involved as it is in things that should not pertain to the government is due to the laxity of the Church in pursuing such endeavors.

Joshua · #4 (**permalink**) 11-30-2007, 02:28 PM

Let me add that considering the cause of the poor does not stop at merely giving food, money, and clothes. If possible, one would want to impart skills, etc. which also enables them to be industrious, or serving, etc.

No Longer A Libertine · #5 (**permalink**) 11-30-2007, 02:32 PM

I agree, if a man cannot show compassion with his wealth on his own accord then who is Uncle Sam (or any human government) to take their money and redistribute it for them (usually very poorly at that).

The problem with western society and in particularly with our own beloved American republic is this false presupposition and perpetual myth that change starts at the top, a product of our self centered living where blame is always outside ourselves and the human condition is gravely misunderstood and diagnosed.

The church is guilty just as the secularists of making "missions" about the material and good works instead of making disciples and in turn good citizens.

Southern Presbyterian · #6 (**permalink**) 11-30-2007, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshua

...the main reason I believe that the State has become as over involved as it is in things that should not pertain to the government due to the laxity of the Church in pursuing such endeavors.

Well said.

Puritan Sailor · #7 (**permalink**) 11-30-2007, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshua

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritan Sailor

Proverbs 29:7 "The righteous considers the cause of the poor, But the wicked does not understand such knowledge."

How do we apply this today in the modern West?

The truth is, Patrick, IMHO, the local church ought to be intent on taking care of the poor as much as they can. Furthermore, offeratory helps are good for the larger extent (i.e. the more distant mission field). For what it's worth, I believe the Church has fallen woefully short of this in the U.S. In fact, the main reason I believe that the State has become as over involved as it is in things that should not pertain to the government is due to the laxity of the Church in pursuing such endeavors.

Do you mean the "Church" as an institution (ministry of the Word, sacraments, discipline)? Or the "Church" as representive of Christians personally going out to meet the needs of others on their own initiative in the name of Christ?

Joshua · #8 (**permalink**) 11-30-2007, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritan Sailor

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshua

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritan Sailor

Proverbs 29:7 "The righteous considers the cause of the poor, But the wicked does not understand such knowledge."

How do we apply this today in the modern West?

The truth is, Patrick, IMHO, the local church ought to be intent on taking care of the poor as much as they can. Furthermore, offeratory helps are good for the larger extent (i.e. the more distant mission field). For what it's worth, I believe the Church has fallen woefully short of this in the U.S. In fact, the main reason I believe that the State has become as over involved as it is in things that should not pertain to the government is due to the laxity of the Church in pursuing such endeavors.

Do you mean the "Church" as an institution (ministry of the Word, sacraments, discipline)? Or the "Church" as representive of Christians personally going out to meet the needs of others on their own initiative in the name of Christ?

Both. Joe Christian, in his daily grind, knows those with whom he works, chats, etc. As he has opportunity to show kindness to those whom he knows in need..or even local stuff, he should do so.

The Church, as an Institution, ought to give toward godly charities, or even have godly charities, missions, etc. Benevolent funds, esp. for church members who are in immediate need due to tragedy, death, etc. Taking care of her widows, and orphans.

Blueridge Believer · #9 (**permalink**) 11-30-2007, 04:35 PM

The bible does say a lot about the oppression of the poor though. In my opinion and company, like walmart for instance, who works people on the sabbath is guilty of oppressing people. Companys who 'sell out jobs' to people at slave wages overseas and put our people out of work are guilty of the same.

Puritan Sailor · #10 (**permalink**) 11-30-2007, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueridge Baptist

The bible does say a lot about the oppression of the poor though. In my opinion and company, like walmart for instance, who works people on the sabbath is guilty of oppressing people. Companys who 'sell out jobs' to people at slave wages overseas and put our people out of work are guilty of the same.

I certianly would support the Church exercising a prophetic voice in the culture about those matters, calling political and business leaders to account, confronting their sin with the law of God, and calling them to repent of their sin. But I don't think I would support the Church, as an institution, working as a political party or faction. That seems to me to deviate from her primary mission, to preach the word and make disciples. Would you agree?

Daniel Ritchie · #11 (**permalink**) 11-30-2007, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshua

Let me add that considering the cause of the poor does not stop at merely giving food, money, and clothes. If possible, one would want to impart skills, etc. which also enables them to be industrious, or serving, etc.

We don't want to teach people to be dependent upon handouts - that is a form of cruelty - but to help them be self-sufficient (under God) so that they may exercise dominion in obedience to the royal authority of Jesus Christ - not be slaves to the "benevolent" welfare of Julius Caesar.

Blueridge Believer · #12 (**permalink**) 11-30-2007, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritan Sailor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueridge Baptist

The bible does say a lot about the oppression of the poor though. In my opinion and company, like walmart for instance, who works people on the sabbath is guilty of oppressing people. Companys who 'sell out jobs' to people at slave wages overseas and put our people out of work are guilty of the same.

I certianly would support the Church exercising a prophetic voice in the culture about those matters, calling political and business leaders to account, confronting their sin with the law of God, and calling them to repent of their sin. But I don't think I would support the Church, as an institution, working as a political party or faction. That seems to me to deviate from her primary mission, to preach the word and make disciples. Would you agree?

I would be in basic agreement with you. However, where a wrong is clearly being commited we have a responsiblity to rebuke it by the law of God imo. If we could just get all the people who call themselves christians to stop eating out and shopping on the Lord's day that would be a big step. Our own people out guilty of oppressing others when they make them work on the sabbath.

Ivanhoe · #13 (**permalink**) 11-30-2007, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritan Sailor

Proverbs 29:7* "The righteous considers the cause of the poor, But the wicked does not understand such knowledge."How do we apply this today in the modern West?

We oppose all forms of socialism and govt redistribution.* Socialism is incompetent and makes everyone poor.* Govt redistribution rewards those who do not work and blesses their behavior, creating a vicious cycle:* since my needs will be met regardless by the government, why work?Of course, it is a different scenario when someone can't help their condition.

Daniel Ritchie · #14 (**permalink**) 11-30-2007, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spear Dane

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritan Sailor

Proverbs 29:7* "The righteous considers the cause of the poor, But the wicked does not understand such knowledge."How do we apply this today in the modern West?

We oppose all forms of socialism and govt redistribution.* Socialism is incompetent and makes everyone poor.* Govt redistribution rewards those who do not work and blesses their behavior, creating a vicious cycle:* since my needs will be met regardless by the government, why work?Of course, it is a different scenario when someone can't help their condition.

Great new Avatar Jacob.