I would put forth these points for consideration:
1) Gods salvation method has never changed. the Law never saved Israel- They were based on the future coming and sacrifice of Christ. We are saved on the basis of Christ came, died, and was resurrected. so one could potentially not only say that "By faith we are saved" but also, "By faith Israel was saved"
a) Hebrews 11- by faith Abraham, Noah, etc.
b) if salvation was possible through the Law, would Paul of needed Christ, would Job, or any other? if they are "perfect, blameless, upright"?
(I dont know Hebrew/Greek so my understandings of BibleWorks definitions and contextual notes could be off.)

2) I realize terms are useful, and used of in scripture at various places but folk seem to forget is that in the end- God= Jesus. so its all Gods Law as given to or through Moses, etc... .

3) God wanted in the Torah, both circumsison of heart and flesh and requires the heart expressly now.

do yall think im far off with number one? If so, how would it be better stated or understood?

__________________
Jeff Rod
Eastwood Presbyterian Church PCA
member.
webpage: myspace.com/reformationforever

To live a simple, peaceable life before God
To owe as little as possible, to few as possible.

Jeff,
It would be helpful to read through the book of Galatians to discover how the law was used by God. It is interesting to notice in Galatians Chapter 3:10-29. To be saved by the law we would have to keep it perfectly.
The law is holy just and good. We as sinner's cannot keep it perfectly as required by God Mt.5:48.
The Word became flesh,Jn 1 Gal 4:4-5 and by His perfect law keeping and his vicarious death for His sheep, has made the perfect sacrifice for all the broken law of His people. That is why the law is described as a "schoolmaster"Gal.3:24 to lead us to Christ.
Paul tells us in Romans 10:4- Christ is the end of the law-for righteousness- to eveyone who believeth. Jeff, that also means that anyone who does not yet believe is facing the full penalty of the broken law of God, and they do not have the righteousness of Christ [His perfect obedience to the law] .
Jeff, do not rush through this study as it will take some time just to begin to understand and follow the apostles teaching on this important issue.
As you have time you can get additional help on sermonaudio, with some of the more difficult passages,as well as some of the past threads here on the board that recommend good books to read. like True Bounds Of Christian Freedom, by Samuel Bolton. by banner of truth.

__________________
Anthony D'Arienzo
Sunday School Teacher
Hope Reformed Baptist Church:
Medford, N.Y.

Ive spent a lot of time studying, and will continue to do so,, (mostly in other matters) So would I be thinking in the right direction with number one?

my statement was- no one, at anytime, was ever saved by the keeping of the law...
~Israel from Sianai up to Christ, was not saved on the basis of their ability to keep the Law, as you mentioned it cant be kept perfectly which would be required to "save". (also a reference somewhere, by no works in man justified?)

~since it isnt by works, it must then be by faith. Meaning that works are a result, of Saving faith. By faith, Noah, Abraham, etc... (Hebrews 11)

so since salvation is/was never based on works, but on faith and faith alone :P then what are we to understand by the reference to paul being a pharisee and "Blameless" before the Law. so what was the nature of that "blameless"

the other points were simply observations ive found during reading the Bible.

I believe you are on the rght track. It is a God given faith- IN CHRIST. Not just faith in faith. The just shall live by faith in Him.
When Paul speaks of being "blameless" he is saying that his outward appearance ,and out ward obedience as a Pharisee would have appeard to other men to be blameless. But we understand from his own writings that he came to know how wicked and self righteous he was , even calling himself the chief of sinners. That is why In Phil.3:4-9 he speaks of counting his past "pharisical righteousness" as dung that he might win Christ!
Look how he strives to attain, and says we should also Phil.3:10-17

You are correct in that anyone who is saved, is saved by what Jesus has done by is mercy

okay that does make since with the blameless issue! Gracias and buenos noches