Powerball = $340 Million - Play or Not Play?

crhoades · #1 (**permalink**) 10-19-2005, 12:13 PM

First some math:
$340 Million X 1/2 for Cash Option = $170 Million X 1/2 for taxes = $85 Million at the end of the day.

10% Tithe off of net is 8.5 Million. Off of Gross is $34 Million

Gambling?
Entertainment?
Adiaphora?
Greed?
Giving tons to charity?

Where does everyone fall and why? What do your/others' answers reveal about our hearts?

crhoades · #2 (**permalink**) 10-19-2005, 12:20 PM

Food for thought - WLC
Q142: What are the sins forbidden in the eighth commandment?
A142: The sins forbidden in the eighth commandment, besides the neglect of the duties required,[1] are, theft,[2] robbery,[3] man-stealing,[4] and receiving anything that is stolen;[5] fraudulent dealing,[6] false weights and measures,[7] removing land marks,[8] injustice and unfaithfulness in contracts between man and man,[9] or in matters of trust;[10] oppression,[11] extortion,[12] usury,[13] bribery,[14] vexatious lawsuits,[15] unjust enclosures and depopulations;[16] engrossing commodities to enhance the price;[17] unlawful callings,[18] and all other unjust or sinful ways of taking or withholding from our neighbor what belongs to him, or of enriching ourselves;[19] covetousness;[20] inordinate prizing and affecting worldly goods;[21] distrustful and distracting cares and studies in getting, keeping, and using them;[22] envying at the prosperity of others;[23] as likewise idleness,[24] prodigality, wasteful gaming; and all other ways whereby we do unduly prejudice our own outward estate,[25] and defrauding ourselves of the due use and comfort of that estate which God hath given us.[26]

1. James 2:15-16; I John 3:17
2. Eph. 4:28; Psa. 42:10
3. Psa. 62:10
4. I Tim. 1:10
5. Prov. 29:24; Psa. 1:18
6. I Thess. 4:6
7. Prov. 11:1; 20:10
8. Deut. 19:14; Prov. 23:10
9. Amos 8:5; Psa. 37:21
10. Luke 16:10-12
11. Ezek. 22:29; Lev. 25:17
12. Matt. 23:25; Ezek. 22:12
13. Psa. 15:5
14. Job 15:34
15. I Cor. 6:6-8; Prov. 3:29-30
16. Isa. 5:8; Micah 2:2
17. Prov. 11:26
18. Acts 19:19, 24-25
19. Job. 20:19; James 5:4; Prov. 21:6
20. Luke 12:15
21. I Tim. 6:5; Col. 3:2; Prov. 23:5; Psa. 42:10
22. Matt. 6:25, 31, 34, Eccl. 5:12
23. Psa. 37:1, 7; 73:3
24. II Thess. 3:11; Prov. 18:9
25. Prov. 21:17; 23:20-21; 28:19

26. Eccl. 4:8; 6:2; I Tim. 5:8

SolaScriptura · #3 (**permalink**) 10-19-2005, 12:24 PM

If I had a spare dollar I'd PLAY, PLAY, PLAY!!!!
And if I won???
I'd think about how I'd spend all that loot! :P

wsw201 · #4 (**permalink**) 10-19-2005, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SolaScriptura
If I had a spare dollar I'd PLAY, PLAY, PLAY!!!!
And if I won???
I'd think about how I'd spend all that loot! :P

rgrove · #5 (**permalink**) 10-19-2005, 12:42 PM

We don't play any government sanctioned gambling. It increases gambling addictions so they can get around the issue of taxes and spending. Our beloved governor here in Oregon has responded to fiscal difficulties (ie, he can't pay for everything) by making the gambling laws more liberal. It's an evil system that enslaves countless minds to the sin of coveteousness. I'm not saying it does in all people, and perhaps not in the people on the board, but I've seen it in many of my unsaved coworkers and family members. My grandfather lusted after the wealth of a lottery win for most all of his later years. It was sad. Why bother with anything that can potentially lead us into a violation of God's moral law through coveteousness?

Joseph Ringling · #6 (**permalink**) 10-19-2005, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rgrove
We don't play any government sanctioned gambling. It increases gambling addictions so they can get around the issue of taxes and spending. Our beloved governor here in Oregon has responded to fiscal difficulties (ie, he can't pay for everything) by making the gambling laws more liberal. It's an evil system that enslaves countless minds to the sin of coveteousness. I'm not saying it does in all people, and perhaps not in the people on the board, but I've seen it in many of my unsaved coworkers and family members. My grandfather lusted after the wealth of a lottery win for most all of his later years. It was sad. Why bother with anything that can potentially lead us into a violation of God's moral law through coveteousness?

victorbravo · #7 (**permalink**) 10-19-2005, 12:48 PM

I don't know anything about PowerBall. Is a ticket $1 or is it more?

In any event, the odds are very poor, around 120 million to one. Statistically, you are more likely to get killed in a car accident on the way to the ticket dealer, so be careful out there.

Of course, I'm not including God's providence in the equation, but I would question where the ticket sales go. Do they go into some program that encourages greed or sin? If so, I wouldn't want to give them any money.

Vic

VirginiaHuguenot · #8 (**permalink**) 10-19-2005, 01:02 PM

The Powerball lottery is gambling. To participate is a sin against the third and eighth commandments, and, likely, the tenth. It is also, moreover, frankly, a tax on supidity.

Average Joey · #9 (**permalink**) 10-19-2005, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
The Powerball lottery is gambling. To participate is a sin against the third and eighth commandments, and, likely, the tenth. It is also, moreover, frankly, a tax on supidity.

I agree.It can be such a huge easily accessed sin though.I would not run out to buy a ticket,but knowing myself such as I do,if I am out somewhere where I could buy.....

Stay away from places selling it.

ChristianTrader · #10 (**permalink**) 10-19-2005, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
The Powerball lottery is gambling. To participate is a sin against the third and eighth commandments, and, likely, the tenth. It is also, moreover, frankly, a tax on supidity.

I would ask to see it spelled out on how it sin against two or perhaps three different comammandments.

And as far as a tax on stupidity, it cant be any worse than a tax on excess productivity.

Peter · #11 (**permalink**) 10-19-2005, 03:03 PM

No.

National Lottery, position paper of the Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland

Martin Marprelate · #12 (**permalink**) 10-19-2005, 03:37 PM

It was Dr. Johnson who said a State lottery was a tax on fools.

I would instance Gen 3:19, Josh 7:21, Isaiah 2:20-21 and especially 1Tim 6:6-11.
Gambling is basically a form of covetousness, which is idolatry (Eph 5:5-6 ).

Martin

VirginiaHuguenot · #13 (**permalink**) 10-19-2005, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Martin Marprelate
It was Dr. Johnson who said a State lottery was a tax on fools.

Would that be Dr. Samuel Johnson? Do you know the source precisely? Just curious. I also saw this older similar quote:

Quote:

"A lottery is a taxation,
Upon all the fools in Creation;
And Heav'n be prais'd,
It is easily rais'd,
Credulity's always in fashion;
For, folly's a fund,
Will never lose ground,
While fools are so rife in the Nation."

A song from "The Lottery", a farce by

Henry Fielding (1707-54)

[Edited on 10-19-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]

pastorway · #14 (**permalink**) 10-19-2005, 04:52 PM

Hear Al Mohler on "A Christian View of the Lottery" here:

http://www.albertmohler.com/radio_pl...ate=2005-10-17

Martin Marprelate · #15 (**permalink**) 10-19-2005, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Would that be Dr. Samuel Johnson? Do you know the source precisely? Just curious.

1. Yes.
2. No. Sorry! I heard it quoted some years ago when a National Lottery was re-introduced in Britain.

When the so-called 'Clapham Sect' had brought about the abolition of slavery in the British Empire in 1833, they cast around for another great social evil that they could get rid of. They settled on the National Lottery.

Martin

ChristianTrader · #16 (**permalink**) 10-19-2005, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pastorway
Hear Al Mohler on "A Christian View of the Lottery" here:

http://www.albertmohler.com/radio_pl...ate=2005-10-17

Thanks for the link.

VirginiaHuguenot · #17 (**permalink**) 10-19-2005, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ChristianTrader

Quote:

Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
The Powerball lottery is gambling. To participate is a sin against the third and eighth commandments, and, likely, the tenth. It is also, moreover, frankly, a tax on supidity.

I would ask to see it spelled out on how it sin against two or perhaps three different comammandments.

With regard to the third commandment, lotteries for financial gain are a vain use of lots and hence profane the name of God. It exalts the god of chance at the expense of honoring the providence of God. See this article.

Quote:

Games of hazard are those in which hazard [ie., not skill but providential determination apart from human effort, commonly called luck, chance, etc.] are those in which hazard only bears the sway and orders the game, and not wit; wherein also there is, as we say, chance, yea mere chance in regard of us. Now games that are of mere hazard, by the consent of godly divines are unlawful. The reasons are these: First, games of mere hazard are indeed lots, and the use of a lot is an act of religion, in which we refer unto God the determination of things of moment that can no other way be determined...Secondly, such games are not recreations, but another matter of stirring up troublesome passions, as fear, sorrow...Thirdly, covetousness is commonly the ground of them all. Whereupon it is that men usually play for money. And for these causes such plays...are unlawful.

-- William Perkins, cited in A Puritan Golden Treasury by I.D.E. Thomas

With regard to the eighth commandment, we are called to contentment and wise stewardship of our possessions. We are also forbidden from seeking to gain something apart from lawful means (work or inheritance/gift) at the expense of others. Wasteful gaming is specifically prohibited as noted already.

R.L. Dabney's Systematic Theology on the eighth commandment:

Quote:

Special Sins and Duties Under It.

This commandment requires us, as to our own worldly estate, to practice such industry as will provide for ourselves and those dependent on us a decent subsistence to eschew idleness, which is a species of robbery practiced on the common hive by the drone; to avoid prodigality; and to appropriate our own goods in due proportion to their proper uses. The commandment, as it applies to our neighbor´s wealth, forbids robbery, or forcible taking, theft, or taking by stealth, all swindling and getting of property by false presence; forestalling and regrating in times of scarcity; wastefulness, tending to the greed for other´s wealth, extortion, embezzlement of public wealth, false measures and weights, contracting debts beyond the known ability to pay, eating usury, gambling, infidelity in working for wages, or in the quality of things manufactured for sale, availing oneself of legal advantages for evading obligations morally binding.

With regard to the tenth commandment, I think it is evident to all that covetousness is a primary motive for gambling.

Lotteries build up the coffers of public schools and statist government programs at the expense of the poor and foolish. Winners get the experience of becoming rich overnight and thrust into temptation at the expense of all who bet and lost, losers waste money, and players rely on fortune to advance themselves rather than using lawful means. Lotteries are a form of gambling, gambling is violates God's law in multiple ways, and often leads to breaking other commandments besides those I have mentioned, and has always been considered a vice. It is particularly heinous because it is seductive and leads to so many various violations of the moral law.

[Edited on 10-20-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]

PuritanBouncer · #18 (**permalink**) 10-19-2005, 09:47 PM

Do any of you view the stock market as sin?

Contra_Mundum · #19 (**permalink**) 10-19-2005, 10:05 PM

I would say the Stock Market, as a place of business, is lawful. And just like many lawful things, it is capable of abuse. Many people are indeed "betting" in the stock market, and neither investing nor "keeping people honest," a function of traditional market "bears."

In today's markets of "play money", highly leveraged "games" and "plays", non-enforcement of contracts and obligations, and government corruption and complicity, I think it is even more dangerous to get into the "action".

VirginiaHuguenot · #20 (**permalink**) 10-19-2005, 10:09 PM

the stock market can be employed as a form of gambling, but properly used it is investing one's resources into a company and enabling it to build capital for the benefit of investors, which is actually good stewardship. The fact that there is risk involved does not automatically make it gambling. Risk is involved in all entrepreneurial endeavors. But as with all things motive and methods need to be examined to see if they are truly in accord with the eighth commandment.

PuritanBouncer · #21 (**permalink**) 10-20-2005, 07:45 AM

Day trading?

alwaysreforming · #22 (**permalink**) 10-20-2005, 09:03 AM

I appreciate the admonition by so many of my godly brethren here about the dangers of gambling and its proximity to sin.

I, on the other hand, might buy a lottery ticket about 4 times per year, and its just a dollar quick pick. In fact, I've never even checked the numbers to see if I've won personally. If I still have the ticket in my possession and happen to remember, I'll have the clerk run it thru the machine while I'm paying and they tell me that its not a winner and throw it in the trash.

I try to guard against the covetousness that can be kindled by this game. In fact, I refused to even look at the initial post that showed how much money one would receive if winning; I'm sure if I got wind of it my heart would be inflamed with monetary lust!

I realize the potentiality of this form of gambling for causing harm to people, and I won't try to justify my participation, however limited. For those of you who say that its sin and should be shunned by Christians, I recognize the truth therein but am probably just a little too callous to really get passionate about it.

SolaScriptura · #23 (**permalink**) 10-20-2005, 09:07 AM

Play! Play! Play! :bigsmile: