First of all, I am asking "What do I do?"

Now for the scenario: A woman at our church greeted me the other day and proceeded to tell me of a drama she was readying for this coming Sunday. She then spoke of a man she recruited to play the part of God. I asked her, "Do you mean as a voice?" She replied, "No, he's going to be wearing a shiny gold robe and a beard."

I am grieved this is going to take place! If the pastoral staff is aware of the content of the "drama" and are allowing it, I find that intolerable. If they are not aware of it, do I address it prior to Sunday? And if I do address it and they still allow it to continue, then what?

I know the stance of the PB on the proper use of the 2nd Commandment, drama in Worship service etc., so I'm not asking for explanation. How serious of a doctrinal ignorance does this indicate if there is no proper understanding on an issue as basic as this?

So, What do I do?

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Donald P. Grubb
theol46@embarqmail.com

Berean Baptist Church, Mansfield, OH
Mansfield, OH

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing.
The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

Yes, yes, and yes. If I were there I most certainly would raise the issue, and fast. It is utterly inconceivable that they would allow this hideous thing to come to pass.

If they intend to do it anyway, I would write them a formal letter in which the sin is outlined clearly, in which they are clearly rebuked, and find another place to worship this weekend.

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Todd K. Pedlar
member, First Congregational Church, (CCCC) Cresco, IA
http://semperubi.rtrc.net

"Many men, after a long conversion, see more of the workings of sin in their hearts than ever they did before or at their first conversion. Now, such men have not an increase of sin, but an increase of illumination and light" (Christopher Love)

Immediately say something. Pull out Deut. 4 and read it to them. "You saw no similitude!" I will pray for you and your church leadership.

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Traci
Lynnwood OPC
Psalm 52:8-9
8 But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God: I trust in the mercy of God for ever and ever.
9 I will praise thee for ever, because thou hast done it: and I will wait on thy name; for it is good before thy saints.

Agree 100% with both posts. Do it like yesterday and I would worship somewhere else this Sunday.

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Benjamin P. Glaser
Pittsburgh, PA
Fairmount ARP Church

Student of Theology
Pittsburgh Theological Seminary
Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary
My Blog

I agree. This is a huge problem that must be raised and dealt with appropriately. Remember, Moses dashed the golden calf in pieces, ground it to powder, and made them drink it. On what grounds can idolatry and blasphemy and bad theology rolled into one part in a stage play in church be defended?

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Ruben

Spanish Blog -Teologia en Mexico
English Blog -The Howling Wilderness

Such is the condition of 21rst century christianity.

__________________
1689 Baptist Confession

Psa 55:16 As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me.
Psa 55:17 Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice.
James Farley, Wilderness Road Baptist Assembly.
Husband of Melissa and father of Ann.
www.wildernessroadbaptist.org

And then further, I happened to ask a very good friend what his immediate reaction would be if he were to see a drama in church where a man portrayed God (not stating it was going to occur this coming Sunday). He seemed somewhat puzzled and then I mentioned the 2nd Commandment. He asked me how the commandment is actually stated. So I read for him the passage. He said that while it was "troubling" to him personally, he knows no one is actually going to bow down in worship of the man portraying God.

Now I am further dumbstruck, but I've heard this before when discussing pictures of Jesus: "We don't worship the picture so we're not guilty of idolatry."

So I guess until and unless someone actually carves an image out of wood to set up in their home in order to "worship", then idolatry simply does not exist.

Unfortunately Donald your experience is not that uncommon. I cannot tell you the number of times I have heard your good friend's response to the same question. It is as if they think you have to genuflect in front of it for it to "count as worship".

I think you need to raise this issue, but it needs to also include the issue of drama itself - not just the issue of the character playing God. Drama has no place in Church and is incredibly dangerous to allow into worship.

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Thomas Weddle
Member, Covenant Reformed Presbyterian Church
Evansville, Indiana

I have a negative gut reaction to drama in the church. However, it would be helpful if you would spell out what exactly is wrong with it and whether it is wrong at any time in the building or only during regularly scheduled Lord's Day worship services.

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Mary Vanderkooi
Kale Heywott Church (KHC)
Soddo, Ethiopia

It is impermissible in stated worship because it is not commanded in Scripture as an element of worship. It is, so to speak, strange fire.

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Josh Hicks, Chloë's Daddy
Member of TRBC. My Blog
The Puritan Pub (Team Blog)
Board Rules-Signature Requirements-Suggestions?

I agree with all the above objections and think it a great opportunity for education and exposition of scriptures that teach us the why that objections are voiced to prevent future similar situations! Sadly people mean well but in ignorance of proper worship think anything about God at all is acceptable and beneficial!

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N.L./ www.foundersbaptist.org
Spring, TX

I agree. Fundamentally, however, I would first address this particular issue and then drama in general. For me to take up a "rant" or object to drama, it could seem that I have no sound basis (to those not who are ignorant of Reformed Regulative principle) but the 2nd Comm is plain. Thanks, Thomas.

It was horrendous and I am ashamed.

I was not able to contact the Pastor prior to Sunday ( after several attempts ) but I did speak with him briefly afterwards to express my "protest", making note of the 2nd Commandment.

What did your Pastor say?

We hold two services. I attended the first, so after 1st service I had literally a minute to catch him. I stated I had a very serious objection to the "drama" based upon the 2nd Comm and requested that he please not allow it to be performed during the next service.

He said basically that it was unlikely to cancel it so abruptly and that based upon my concern he would "need to think about it"; "it" being the implications of the 2nd Comm.

Not good any way I look at it. Why would my pastor need to think about it? Should it not be already understood? But then based upon convo's I've had with other friends, it seems no one has bothered to discover how extensive the Commandments are on the whole.

Hi Mary,

There are a couple of reasons, they are interrelated. I'll be brief, as getting into this could become quite lengthy.

First, drama speaks in various ways by appealing to the emotions. It speaks through visual communication as well as the interplay between characters. The teaching is not uniform since one person may pick up and relate to something whereas another may not. Hence, one person may identify with Judas in a play on the crucifixion, another may identify with Pilot &c.

In the ministry of the word, teaching is to be uniform with instruction so that each individual comes to the same understanding. We are to be, in Scriptural language, of one mind and one mouth. Authority is proclaimed from the Holy God and His Word is a law word unto His creature - it is not left up to individual to interpret for himself, but is designed to bring each individual to the same understanding and same subjection to God.

Second, the social bond of Authority is built upon images of strength, hence Christ is the express image of God and we are made in His image. The work of all authority has a goal to convert power into images of strength, hence God prohibits images, because it challenges His Authority as His visible legible image is Christ.

Authority, fraternity, solitude and ritual are four distinctive social emotions. Three of them build bonds to people, one does not. Ritual or drama is the strongest bond, this is because it creates a form of unity between people, whether those people are equals or not. In contrast, the ministry of the word builds a bond between a Creator and His creature and develops fraternity between people that are similar - the bond to Authority, though, is between unequals.

What happens, then, is with drama people become unified in the ritual of drama, but the social bonds between them is ambiguous, constantly changing and varying from person to person. They have a unity but that unity is not in the teaching, but in each subjective emotional bond that each person develops independently of one another in how they interpret drama. In other words, authority shifts from the Word of God to the institution of the Church.

Once drama, whether that is skits, plays, or even puppet shows for children enters a Church, then effectually the visual communication of the Mass has been reinstituted, not necessarily carried out in the same way or with the same meaning - but the shift in the Authority is the same. This is why it is so dangerous, because it creates a unity between people, but it is not a unity in Truth, but a unity in an emotional bond in their independent and individual interpretation of drama.

Cordially,

Thomas

Is Berean a "Dispy" Baptist or a particular?

I'd follow up with the Pastor next week or if another opportunity comes up.

As I mentioned to you before, you should take it up with him formally by way of rebuke. This is the kind of thing that, upon further conversation with him, and finding him unable to see the error IMMEDIATELY with what was done, that would make me begin looking for another church, while at the same time sternly taking him to task and to the Scriptures for the offense.

Man, I'd be on the phone to him yesterday, and today, and tomorrow until he is willing to take this up. This is a simple matter of a clear violation of Scriptural command. No argument can be made to defend it. It is simply an evil thing that was done, with the full approbation (apparently) of the pastor. I would be certain to engage him fully on this matter before the week is out, if I were you.

Not to be hasty but their is an OPC church in Mansfield.

What makes these situations so egregious in my mind is the context.

If you are in a worship service during which you have a drama where someone depicts God you have a depiction of what you are worshiping during worship. This has got to breach the 2nd commandment.

While I do not agree with depictions of God outside worship it is at least possible to come up with some sort of weak defence in such situations, in worship there can be no accomodation for such direct idolitary.

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Mike
London City Presbyterian Church
London
England

"Surely, we wish to be orthodox, but we must first learn what real orthodoxy is. Surely, we wish to be progressive, but we must first have a basis to progress from."

Two things really sadden me here. First, a church that pursues these "extras" in worship (the list is endless beyond drama, how about interpretive dance?) has generally forgotten that God is our audience in worship. Often this is so, because churches have lost sight of who God is and the wonder of being able to praise and adore him for his incredible attributes.

Secondly, a willingness to flaunt the second commandment suggests that the law has ceased to be recognized in the church and all the power that it brings in convicting man and driving him to Christ, seeing Christ's mercy in forgiving our violation of the law, and observing the purity of God's character as reflected in the law.

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JWithnell
Member Bethel OPC
Virginia