This is inspired by the McDonald's restaurant business and similar actions by other restaurants.

Since these companies are not Christian's or run by them should they be expected to obey God's Law and run their companies accordingly?

Or since God gave commands to Adam and we are all descendants of him are we all obligated to obey God whether we want to or not? Is all of mankind responsible to obey God like it says in Romans 1? The Laws apply to everyone since we were put here by God and have responsibilities even in light of the fall?

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Erick Bohndorf, Covenant Baptist Church, KS
http://qayaqtraveler.blogspot.com/
The question for us today is, will we be like the majority of Israel and continue to look in fear at the giants in the land and urge our fellow Christians to be "realistic," or will we be like Joshua and Caleb and faithfully follow our king, trusting to fulfill every one of his promises completely?

All mankind is not only obligated to obey Gods law, they are all obligated to worship him.

In the end they all do.

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Kevin Rogers
Sovereign Community Church, PCA
Moncton NB

Yes, all creation is bound to obey their Creator's Law.

God's wrath is coming upon all who disobey Him and do not have the perfect obedience that Christ alone affords. One day He will judge all men righteously by the standard of their obedience to His Law.

__________________
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Scott
PCA
North Carolina

Soli Deo Gloria

But with a few caveats. A case in point is that you can't eat road kill but you can sell it to the heathen. There are other examples of laws which only apply to believers. Although I guess the point could be made that if those specific laws were done away with, the whole world is under the same law. Can't think of any NT examples off the top.

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Tim Vaughan, 48 years old, member Redeemer OPC, Santa Maria CA.

NO!
We should expect them to act according to their nature.

Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

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Sterling Harmon
Coventry, CT
PCA
Deacon
________________

"Whatever is laudable in our works proceeds from the grace of God."
-- John Calvin, Institutes III:xv.3.

"Our Lord God must be a good man, to be fond of worthless fellows. I cannot like them, and yet I, myself, am one."
-- Martin Luther, Table Talk

If our obeying Gods laws requires evangelical obedience, do you think pagans are going to obey them? Isn t that the purpose of Gods decretive authority? He has declared that all rulers are corrupted and are under sin. When they die , they are forgotten. Only God is perfectly able to work justice and equity through His promises and decrees , in spite of corrupted man. We have no other option but to bow down and kiss the Son.

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Tom
New Life PCA
Florida
He means that no part of our life is to be unoccupied, and to afford room, as it were, for the wish to enjoy some other object, but that whatever else may suggest itself to us as an object worthy of love is to be borne into the same channel in which the whole current of our affections flows. Augustine

There are three uses of the law (not two), one of which is to govern society, and to reign in the wickedness of the unregenerate.

WCF
V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it. Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.

VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned; yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives; so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin, together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of His obedience.


Note, regenerate and unregenerate are to obey the Law of God, and to deny this is to deny "the authority of God the Creator, who gave it".

It is hard for me to fathom how this could even be an issue for anyone even moderately committed to the Westminster Standards.

Cheers,

__________________
Adam Brink, Livermore Wine Country, California
Grace Church of Pleasanton, PCA

Attorney: Chicolini, when were you born?
Chicolini: I don't remember. I was just a little baby.
~Chico Marx in Duck Soup

Yes i agree, but there is a difference between a law and a scheme. Its Gods law that is perfect. God examines every authority under the sun, and He doesnt need man to carry out the law in order to punish the wicked. First because every man is already facing punishment for sin. And God can easily see man slip that slippery slope into hell in order to make things equal. God also protects his children from mens oppressive rule. He doesnt need man to carry out his justice. God metes out retribution every day. And all tho He is loving and His anger is withholding mostly yet men can be defined in a way that they would incur Gods retributive justice. But His own children only see his protection by covenant. Since we are still sinners then justification by faith is in that protection on this side of heaven. Read Calvin on the psalms.

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Tom
New Life PCA
Florida
He means that no part of our life is to be unoccupied, and to afford room, as it were, for the wish to enjoy some other object, but that whatever else may suggest itself to us as an object worthy of love is to be borne into the same channel in which the whole current of our affections flows. Augustine

I am fully aware of the three uses of the law. I do not deny the authority of God the creator. You are making far too much of my simple comment. My comment does not dismiss the obligation of the unregenerate, but is simply acknowledgment of the fact as heathen, they will act according to their nature, not according to God's law. As Jeremiah says, The Eithiopian cannot chnge the color of his skin, nor can the leapoard change his spots, so then, those who are accustomed to doing evil can not do that which is good.

Indeed, in the judgment God will hold them accountible for not keeping His law, and this be their condemnation.

But, for the time being, no--I do not expect the heathen to act in any other way than as heathen, apart from the saving grace of God in their lives. WE can not legislate holiness. That is God's work!

__________________
Sterling Harmon
Coventry, CT
PCA
Deacon
________________

"Whatever is laudable in our works proceeds from the grace of God."
-- John Calvin, Institutes III:xv.3.

"Our Lord God must be a good man, to be fond of worthless fellows. I cannot like them, and yet I, myself, am one."
-- Martin Luther, Table Talk

I might add, "In Spirit and in Truth".

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~Keon Garraway~ Brooklyn, NY Member of Franklin Square OPC

Love for God demonstrated by the love for our children in giving them a God centered education is the only hope for our country. by David Morrow
Pslam 71:20 [Thou], which hast shewed me great and sore troubles, shalt quicken me again, and shalt bring me up again from the depths of the earth.

Indeed, we cannot legislate holiness, and this is the work of God. But this is not what the third use of the law refers to.

We can and must legislate morality, or our society will fall to pieces. This is why the magistrate is bound to the moral law as his guiding light, and the judicial law's marrow to meet out punishments. Without these, wickedness runs openly in the streets. With these, wickedness is driven back into the shadows:

To those who help in Christ have found
And would in works of love abound
It shows what deeds are His delight
And should be done as good and right.

When men the offered help disdain
And willfully in sin remain,
Its terror in their ear resounds
And keeps their wickedness in bounds.


If we strip the law of its civil terrors and say "oh well, they're unbelievers" then wickedness triumphs in society, and sodomites demand the "right to marry". The church has done this to us.

Cheers,

Adam

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Adam Brink, Livermore Wine Country, California
Grace Church of Pleasanton, PCA

Attorney: Chicolini, when were you born?
Chicolini: I don't remember. I was just a little baby.
~Chico Marx in Duck Soup

"they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin, together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of His obedience."

This is how we are to pray and long for and see as the only hope for our twisted society and church. Kiss the Son lest He be angry and you be taken out of the way.

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Tom
New Life PCA
Florida
He means that no part of our life is to be unoccupied, and to afford room, as it were, for the wish to enjoy some other object, but that whatever else may suggest itself to us as an object worthy of love is to be borne into the same channel in which the whole current of our affections flows. Augustine

I agree. The civil magistrate is ordained by God to uphold the law in society. I do not seek to strip the law of its civil terrors, nor do I say "oh well, they're unbelievers" with the intent of excusing the wicked.

My point was simply that I, personally, am not suprised when the heathen act as heathens and violate God's Laws.

__________________
Sterling Harmon
Coventry, CT
PCA
Deacon
________________

"Whatever is laudable in our works proceeds from the grace of God."
-- John Calvin, Institutes III:xv.3.

"Our Lord God must be a good man, to be fond of worthless fellows. I cannot like them, and yet I, myself, am one."
-- Martin Luther, Table Talk

I agree, i dont think our attitude should be the lowest common denominator.But we should see ourselves as sinners first and then see how these workings are connected in society even in an oppressive magistrate and pray accordingly. If we are caught in these schemes then , we are to always be having God as our shield and help since He makes all of these twisted schemes turn for our good. We really need to feel according to what we know by our wisdom in these matters. Or we will just end up being a pawn.

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Tom
New Life PCA
Florida
He means that no part of our life is to be unoccupied, and to afford room, as it were, for the wish to enjoy some other object, but that whatever else may suggest itself to us as an object worthy of love is to be borne into the same channel in which the whole current of our affections flows. Augustine

Thank you for correcting my misunderstanding! At first, I took your meaning to be contrary to what you have stated.

Cheers,

Adam

__________________
Adam Brink, Livermore Wine Country, California
Grace Church of Pleasanton, PCA

Attorney: Chicolini, when were you born?
Chicolini: I don't remember. I was just a little baby.
~Chico Marx in Duck Soup

No problem. Glad we got that cleared up!

__________________
Sterling Harmon
Coventry, CT
PCA
Deacon
________________

"Whatever is laudable in our works proceeds from the grace of God."
-- John Calvin, Institutes III:xv.3.

"Our Lord God must be a good man, to be fond of worthless fellows. I cannot like them, and yet I, myself, am one."
-- Martin Luther, Table Talk

Letting the world govern themselves, so to speak, is similar to the dispy notion that the world is going to hell anyway so why polish brass on a sinking ship? If we live with the notion that we are going to be around here for awhile we will fight to keep as much morality in culture as possible.

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Erick Bohndorf, Covenant Baptist Church, KS
http://qayaqtraveler.blogspot.com/
The question for us today is, will we be like the majority of Israel and continue to look in fear at the giants in the land and urge our fellow Christians to be "realistic," or will we be like Joshua and Caleb and faithfully follow our king, trusting to fulfill every one of his promises completely?

You have, perhaps, put your finger on the key issue: eschatology.

Adam

__________________
Adam Brink, Livermore Wine Country, California
Grace Church of Pleasanton, PCA

Attorney: Chicolini, when were you born?
Chicolini: I don't remember. I was just a little baby.
~Chico Marx in Duck Soup

What about issues of the will? The unsaved are in bondage to follow the things that displease God. Read Augustine, Luther, Calvin, and for a modern take Sproul. Apart from the work of the Holy Spirit, the inclination to evil is the direction they will take.

__________________
~etexas~

All of mankind is responsible to the standard of perfection before the Father, and will be held accountable for it. So, they all fall under that idea that some called natural law. The rewriting of the natural law into a law designed to run God's chosen nation of Israel was for Israel and Israel alone. Moses did not apply this law, with all of it's ceremonies and sacrifices, to other nations surrounding him. Others were not circumcised and told to sacrifice and tithe unless they wanted to become converts and placed under the banner of God's nation. Now, we come to wonder what we are to do today, as we find no longer a nation on the earth that is God's nation. So, we are back to studying situations like Abraham, Lot, and David when he lived with the Philistines, to draw our examples from for what to do. Abraham and Lot did not strive with great effort to make the nations in which they sojourned become Godly nations, and neither did David when he lived under the banner of the Philistines. Rather, they subjected themselves to the normal laws that were already in place there, so long as it did not compromise their personal submission to God's ways and standard of holiness. I'm sure that had a vote been given to any of them while they were under the kings of other nations, they would have encouraged them towards laws that reflected godliness. And they would be like Lot, who, when the situation was pressed upon him, encouraged the men towards godliness by pointing out to those who came to his door to not do this great evil by having relations with those he took in. And, so should we.

So, if I am driven to be a politician in the country in which I live, I will be the strongest advocate for laws that reflect the holiness and godliness, and as a citizen, I will strive to exemplify holiness and godliness as well. And, when encountered and pressed upon by the sinfulness of others, I will encourage them to not do evil. But, if the current law of that country allows for things like the McDonald's situation, then I cannot do anything to alter that except to become a politician and work to influence the leaders to make better decisions. I don't think Lot was walking around Sodom and Gomorrah with picket signs encouraging the boycotting of places where homosexuality was being practiced. And, I don't think David did the same in the Ph