What is understood to be the difference if we understand that the law is written on the heart? I will likely have to clarify my question.

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~Beth Ellen Nagle~
Lakeside Church -Wales, WI (PCA)
Married to John
One wonderful daughter, Chaela Joelle


My work in digital art and photography: http://www.puritanboard.com/members/...ms-images.html

Natural Law seems to imply a Common Grace toward all men whereby God's Law is written on the Hearts of ALL men not just His Children. This is why a pagan who has no knowledge of God knows that when murdering a fellow human being it is wrong and it smites his conscience. The Decalogue is specifically the Moral Law given to Moses on Sinai with specific penalties associated with its violation that today drives us to Christ and aids us in our own walk with God as well as the general equity of it being applied within our Governments as a rule of law.

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Wayne Whitmer
Member, Rio Rancho OPC
Albuquerque, NM

Are you saying natural law is the same content as the Moral law or Decalogue?

And why would it not be in a believer since it would be before he was converted? OR am I missing you?

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DonP

I think my question is more, Does Natural Law have content? And then, Is that content identical to the Law written on the heart?

-----Added 4/21/2009 at 12:12:32 EST-----


What is the difference between God's Law and the Moral Law?

I think in a certain sense the Decalogue IS written on the hearts and minds of ALL men. If we look at the Decalogue, which is the moral law, the first half is directed towards our relationship with God Himself, and if we look at the second half of the law we see our relationship with other men. In that sense, I think every man has the law written upon his heart. I think of Luke 10, where the Law is summarized for us:

"And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" And He said to him, "What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?" And he answered, "YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF." And He said to him, "You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE." Luke 10:25-28

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Yvonne
Reformed Presbyterian
Currently seeking a Church

"A man's most glorious actions will at last be found to be but glorious sins, if he hath made himself, and not the glory of God, the end of those actions." -T. Brooks

Hoping I am not changing the thread just trying to get clear which is which?

Well if it is the moral law, then how is it different in the unregenerate than Heb 8:10
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts;
NKJV

Is this the 10 commands or just some conscience or sense there is a god enough to hold them accountable?
Rom 1:19-20
19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
NKJV

-----Added 4/21/2009 at 12:42:13 EST-----

Did this remove or deaden the law to them

Rom 1:28-29

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness,
NKJV

Larger Catechism answer 92 identifies natural law with the moral law, and answer 98 states the moral law is summarily comprehended in the ten commandments.

It may be worth pointing out that the apostle only states that the work (ergon) of the law is written on the hearts of Gentiles which do not have (by special revelation) the law (as Jews possess it). In biblical language, to have the law written on the heart properly means to submit to it and delight in it as a revelation of God's will for one's life.

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Yours sincerely,


"Illum oportet crescere me autem minui."

So would the unregenerate rightly be said to have the law written on their hearts?

I was thinking he was saying when a regenerate Gentile does what you an ethnic Jew were supposed to do who is the true child of God??

Thank you Reverend Winzer for pointing out that distinction.

Perhaps we can put it this way -- they have the law of God corrupted in their hearts. It was implanted in the very nature of man in his state of integrity, but he has sought out many ways whereby to avoid its dictates, Ecclesiastes 7:29. Or, as Romans 2:1-16 teaches, men have a very self-centred and God-condemned version of it.

Heb 8:10

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord: I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

If the law wasn't written on the hearts of men until the new covenant, what about the ethnic Jews that were saved by faith before the coming of Christ? Did they not submit and delight in the law of God?

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Christoffer S.
Layman
Finnish Evangelical-Lutheran church
Vaasa, Finland

They have the law written on their hearts as the image of God from creation and the law is the matter of the covenant of works which condemns them. But it has been marred (just like God's image) by rebellion because of their sin nature. It's written in the heart afresh with new creation (just as the image of God is renewed) and revealed in it's clarity in special revelation. If they don't have sufficient knowledge of the law, then they can't be condemned for disobeying it. That has usually been the main thrust behind the Reformed view of natural law, it shows how man is without excuse and rightfully condemned by the moral law under the covenant of works.

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Patrick
MDiv, RTS Jackson
Pastor, Grace Presbyterian Church (OPC), Lisbon, NY

"He does well, that discourses of Christ; but he does infinitely better, that by experimental knowledge, feeds and lives on Christ." Thomas Brooks.
"Let us not please ourselves that we have deep understandings, but let us shew our understandings by our practice." Richard Sibbes

At the end of The Abolition of Man, C. S. Lewis has an appendix called 'Illustrations of the Tao' [by which he is referring to natural law] which is very helpful to illustrate that these two tables of the moral law have been implanted (though as Rev. Winzer points out, also corrupted) in unregenerate men, throughout times and cultures.

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Heidi
Indianapolis, Indiana

Patience must dwell with Love, for Love and Sorrow
Have pitched their tent together here:
Love all alone will build a house tomorrow,
And sorrow not be near. -Christina Rossetti

Thanks everyone for your input.

Does this mean that the 10 Commandments are identical to natural law or that the 10 Commandments contain the natural law (with the 10 Commandments having some ceremonial elements)?

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Jon Peters
Member, Reformation Fellowship (OPC) (Roseville, CA)
Folsom, CA

I would think the underlying principles/concepts to be identical prior to particular applications.

If we consider the words "comprehended" and "summarily" we see that the Catechism regards natural law as being substantially republished in the decalogue but in summary form. The Catechism's "rules" for understanding the decalogue are designed to expand on this summary so as to form a complete moral directory, as is provided in the subsequent questions which outline the duties required and sins forbidden in each commandment.

From Westminster's perspective it is doubtful whether any ceremonial element is to be found in the decalogue. The first reformers sometimes spoke of the Sabbath as being ceremonial in the sense of setting aside a specific day to be kept holy to God, but Westminster follows the reformed and Puritan tradition of considering the specific day to be a positive enactment and the setting aside of one day in seven to be a moral requirement.

For instance, firstly, we can know something is necessarily eternal and what is eternal is absolute. Everyone posits an absolute in some form or other even if they fail to reason what is clearly absolute. We can also understand that the world is created. Secondly, we think presuppositionally, we must think of the finite in light of the infinite, eternal and unchangeable (the less basic in light of the most basic), not the other way around. These correspond to the first and second moral law. Once could go from there covering each law.

Did I kill this thread or what?

Here's an essay I wrote some years back to introduce folk to this question

John Calvin and the Lex Naturalis (Natural Law)

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R. Scott Clark, D.Phil
Westminster Seminary California
Associate Pastor, Oceanside URC
The Heidelcast Podcast
The Heidelblog
Office Hours Podcast

You are unclear as to whether the question being answered is the OP or the quoted one.

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Jonathan
Audio Engineer
Reformed Anabaptist
Ohio

Moroni's magical glasses of proper interpretation:

Do I seem confused?

Now why didn't I see this thread before?

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Casey, Chicagoland, OPC

Did you get the secret handshake?